UCLA full tuition vs. Duke $25k annual vs. Berkeley sticker

[daesonesb]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

[Core]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

Lol please describe him.

OP, if you got 105k from UCLA, you have a great shot at some $$ from Berkeley.

[daesonesb]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

Lol please describe him.

OP, if you got 105k from UCLA, you have a great shot at some $$ from Berkeley.

First, agreed that UCLA money is a bargaining potential at berkeley. That's alot of money!

Second: You know who I'm talking about. When he isn't wearing his duke shirt, he has on pastel/light colored polo shirts, cargo shorts, backwards duke hat, smoke marlboro lights, drives a trailblazer and LOVES dave matthews band and Jimmy Buffet.

EDIT: i'm not dissing all this. When I lived in the South, I had friends like this, and they were good peoples. I just think that someone who is a west coaster at heart might have some trouble adjusting.

[jen_said]

BERKELEY


live the dream for all of us who can't.

[thickfreakness]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

Lol please describe him.

OP, if you got 105k from UCLA, you have a great shot at some $$ from Berkeley.

First, agreed that UCLA money is a bargaining potential at berkeley. That's alot of money!

Second: You know who I'm talking about. When he isn't wearing his duke shirt, he has on pastel/light colored polo shirts, cargo shorts, backwards duke hat, smoke marlboro lights, drives a trailblazer and LOVES dave matthews band and Jimmy Buffet.

I'm guessing there won't be many, if any, of these folks at Duke Law School.

[daesonesb]

I'm guessing there won't be many, if any, of these folks at Duke Law School.

But Duke law school is at Duke. It's just the culture of the surrounding area that would be alien to the OP I'd say.

[roadkilllaw]

I saw something posted in a thread recently about Berkeley's scholarships.

They have a full, official match program that includes all of the T14 except Northwestern.

Enjoy Berkeley with 25k/year

I read the same thing. It's in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=111317

The post specifically said: Students admitted to Berkeley Law that have also received a scholarship offer from one of the 12 law schools listed below can apply for a Berkeley Law Matching Scholarship.

Columbia University
Cornell University
Duke University
Georgetown University
Harvard University
New York University
Stanford University
University of Chicago
University of Michigan
University of Pennsylvania
University of Virginia
Yale University

I don't know the specifics, but according to this you should be able to get at least $25K from Boalt

OP, I'd really consider researching this! You could probably use the UCLA $$$ as leverage too!

[scionb4]

I'm calling bullshit on every person who's telling OP to go to Berkeley, and I don't care the kind of backlash I'm going to receive for putting that so bluntly. There is no way in Hell that the somewhat better career prospects at Berkeley justify the immense amount of debt that the OP will have at the end of law school by paying sticker price as opposed to attending a top 20 law school and coming out of it without any debt. Let the criticism rain down on me, I don't care, a full ride at ANY top 20 school trumps sticker price at ANY top 20 school. Ask someone who's older, as in like a person in their 40's and beyond, how much they enjoy being in debt. Resident tuition, RESIDENT TUITION, at Berkeley, is 35K. Prepare to pay that amount of money, plus living expenses, until the day you die, buddy. But, hey, it is your dream school!

[daesonesb]

I'm calling bullshit on every person who's telling OP to go to Berkeley, and I don't care the kind of backlash I'm going to receive for putting that so bluntly. There is no way in Hell that the somewhat better career prospects at Berkeley justify the immense amount of debt that the OP will have at the end of law school by paying sticker price as opposed to attending a top 20 law school and coming out of it without any debt. Let the criticism rain down on me, I don't care, a full ride at ANY top 20 school trumps sticker price at ANY top 20 school. Ask someone who's older, as in like a person in their 40's and beyond, how much they enjoy being in debt. Resident tuition, RESIDENT TUITION, at Berkeley, is 35K. Prepare to pay that amount of money, plus living expenses, until the day you die, buddy. But, hey, it is your dream school!

You crazy.

[miamiman]

I'm calling bullshit on every person who's telling OP to go to Berkeley, and I don't care the kind of backlash I'm going to receive for putting that so bluntly. There is no way in Hell that the somewhat better career prospects at Berkeley justify the immense amount of debt that the OP will have at the end of law school by paying sticker price as opposed to attending a top 20 law school and coming out of it without any debt. Let the criticism rain down on me, I don't care, a full ride at ANY top 20 school trumps sticker price at ANY top 20 school. Ask someone who's older, as in like a person in their 40's and beyond, how much they enjoy being in debt. Resident tuition, RESIDENT TUITION, at Berkeley, is 35K. Prepare to pay that amount of money, plus living expenses, until the day you die, buddy. But, hey, it is your dream school!

woah. someone needs to hug some shit out. or, did your march madness team lose?

[daesonesb]

I'm calling bullshit on every person who's telling OP to go to Berkeley, and I don't care the kind of backlash I'm going to receive for putting that so bluntly. There is no way in Hell that the somewhat better career prospects at Berkeley justify the immense amount of debt that the OP will have at the end of law school by paying sticker price as opposed to attending a top 20 law school and coming out of it without any debt. Let the criticism rain down on me, I don't care, a full ride at ANY top 20 school trumps sticker price at ANY top 20 school. Ask someone who's older, as in like a person in their 40's and beyond, how much they enjoy being in debt. Resident tuition, RESIDENT TUITION, at Berkeley, is 35K. Prepare to pay that amount of money, plus living expenses, until the day you die, buddy. But, hey, it is your dream school!

woah. someone needs to hug some shit out. or, did your march madness team lose?

I'm guessing he's a Cardinals fan.

[Puffy]

I wouldn't go to any UC outside of Berkeley right now, and even then I would only go to Berkeley if I had no comparable options. However Duke is not by any stretch of imagination a comparable option to Berkeley, and as cold and ugly and dirty as Berkeley is, Durham is the armpit of the world. There is no way 25k a year is enough to drag me out of California to attend an inferior school.

[Core]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

Lol please describe him.

OP, if you got 105k from UCLA, you have a great shot at some $$ from Berkeley.

First, agreed that UCLA money is a bargaining potential at berkeley. That's alot of money!

Second: You know who I'm talking about. When he isn't wearing his duke shirt, he has on pastel/light colored polo shirts, cargo shorts, backwards duke hat, smoke marlboro lights, drives a trailblazer and LOVES dave matthews band and Jimmy Buffet.

EDIT: i'm not dissing all this. When I lived in the South, I had friends like this, and they were good peoples. I just think that someone who is a west coaster at heart might have some trouble adjusting.

Haha, I've never lived anywhere other than NYC, and while I've traveled to a number of countries throughout Europe, South America, etc., I've never been father south in the U.S. than D.C. (except for one quick trip to Disney World ). So I wasn't fully aware of the (hilarious) stereotype.

[emilybeth]

Go to Berkeley, even at sticker.

Two exit options:

(1) High-paying biglaw job, debt is not crushing, overly burdensome, or unmanageable.

(2) Work for the gov or PI, love your life, see the difference you're making in other people's lives, take full advantage of one of the nation's best LRAP (http://www.law.berkeley.edu/194.htm) programs, win at life.

The end.

[dcm81]

I'd go to UCLA but I can understand why one would go to Boalt. Great school and you'll pretty much get to do anything you want with your degree. UCLA isn't far off in prestige though. But the full scholarship is a pretty big deal when you are going to be paying 200 thousand sticker price over three years.

[Puffy]

Second: You know who I'm talking about. When he isn't wearing his duke shirt, he has on pastel/light colored polo shirts, cargo shorts, backwards duke hat, smoke marlboro lights, drives a trailblazer and LOVES dave matthews band and Jimmy Buffet.

Reminds of my college days back in Charlottesville. You just have to switch out the Duke shirt with UVA shirt (or UVA Law) and add to it sports coat and hideous UVA necktie on the days when there's football games.

[los blancos]

If OP wants CA biglaw, then clueless 0L thinks:

Berkeley >>> Dook >> UCLA

I was always under the impression that Duke + CA ties does better in LA than UCLA/USC. Honestly, the NLJ250 placement stats for UCLA/USC even in the good days just don't even compare to Dook's. Dunno how much the NLJ250 underrates west coast placement, though.

[prezidentv8]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

This is deserving of a facepalm. About 10% of our alums are from/in California, California is the most represented state in my class, and Duke is pretty much unbelievably chill for a law school in terms of atmosphere. The surrounding area has great barbecue, pretty good other dining, a solid bar scene, and Chapel Hill a short drive away. We also have the Durham Bulls and Duke and UNC basketball, as well as the Carolina Hurricanes down the road. If you're an artsy type, we have that too, including an on campus art gallery and a performing arts center downtown. Raleigh is also very close by. Southern douchebags? Big swing and a miss, but we can all thank the undergrads, Tucker Max, ATL, and GQ for that one. Frankly the undergrads aren't even as bad as they're made out to be either. And while I can see advocating for Cal or UCLA, "unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke" is just a retarded, stereotypical, and frankly untrue reason to decide against giving a school consideration.

[prezidentv8]

<awaits Bosque>

[daesonesb]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

This is deserving of a facepalm. About 10% of our alums are from/in California, California is the most represented state in my class, and Duke is pretty much unbelievably chill for a law school in terms of atmosphere. The surrounding area has great barbecue, pretty good other dining, a solid bar scene, and Chapel Hill a short drive away. We also have the Durham Bulls and Duke and UNC basketball, as well as the Carolina Hurricanes down the road. If you're an artsy type, we have that too, including an on campus art gallery and a performing arts center downtown. Raleigh is also very close by. Southern douchebags? Big swing and a miss, but we can all thank the undergrads, Tucker Max, ATL, and GQ for that one. Frankly the undergrads aren't even as bad as they're made out to be either. And while I can see advocating for Cal or UCLA, "unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke" is just a retarded, stereotypical, and frankly untrue reason to decide against giving a school consideration.

I can see the LS not being like this. The undergrad part of Duke is really fratty though. I've heard from several friends that frats like this http://www.duke.edu/web/dsphi/ or SAE definitely have a strong presence on campus and like it or not, Duke LS is at Duke's campus... so I think the point is valid.

You're right, it's not a good reason to not attend Duke. I'm only speaking from personal experience when I say that coming to the South as an outsider can cause a bigger case of culture shock than you'd expect, given that you aren't even leaving your own country. I've gotten the same thing from Kentucky friends of mine who visited me in Washington. People in the South just do things differently than the west coast and vice versa. I dont think you can deny that.

[Core]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

This is deserving of a facepalm. About 10% of our alums are from/in California, California is the most represented state in my class, and Duke is pretty much unbelievably chill for a law school in terms of atmosphere. The surrounding area has great barbecue, pretty good other dining, a solid bar scene, and Chapel Hill a short drive away. We also have the Durham Bulls and Duke and UNC basketball, as well as the Carolina Hurricanes down the road. If you're an artsy type, we have that too, including an on campus art gallery and a performing arts center downtown. Raleigh is also very close by. Southern douchebags? Big swing and a miss, but we can all thank the undergrads, Tucker Max, ATL, and GQ for that one. Frankly the undergrads aren't even as bad as they're made out to be either. And while I can see advocating for Cal or UCLA, "unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke" is just a retarded, stereotypical, and frankly untrue reason to decide against giving a school consideration.

I can see the LS not being like this. The undergrad part of Duke is really fratty though. I've heard from several friends that frats like this http://www.duke.edu/web/dsphi/ or SAE definitely have a strong presence on campus and like it or not, Duke LS is at Duke's campus... so I think the point is valid.

You're right, it's not a good reason to not attend Duke. I'm only speaking from personal experience when I say that coming to the South as an outsider can cause a bigger case of culture shock than you'd expect, given that you aren't even leaving your own country. I've gotten the same thing from Kentucky friends of mine who visited me in Washington. People in the South just do things differently than the west coast and vice versa. I dont think you can deny that.

I thought that fraternity was a joke for a good 10 minutes. Holy shit lmao.

[Hopefullawstudent]

I'd jump in and say both posters ^ are making valid points.

Duke is a douchebag school. That is a subjective evaluation of course, but barely. Having said that, it is easy to start conflating a school's UG reputation with its law school, which we're all smart enough to know is just downright faulty. Duke Law School is still douchey, but I'd say much less douchey than the UG.

-HL

Also, my vote is unequivocally for UCLA. Boalt at sticker, are you kidding me?

[prezidentv8]

By the way... Forget about Duke... This should be Boalt vs. UCLA.

+1
If you are from/like California, you are unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke. It is home of the archetypal southern douchebag.

This is deserving of a facepalm. About 10% of our alums are from/in California, California is the most represented state in my class, and Duke is pretty much unbelievably chill for a law school in terms of atmosphere. The surrounding area has great barbecue, pretty good other dining, a solid bar scene, and Chapel Hill a short drive away. We also have the Durham Bulls and Duke and UNC basketball, as well as the Carolina Hurricanes down the road. If you're an artsy type, we have that too, including an on campus art gallery and a performing arts center downtown. Raleigh is also very close by. Southern douchebags? Big swing and a miss, but we can all thank the undergrads, Tucker Max, ATL, and GQ for that one. Frankly the undergrads aren't even as bad as they're made out to be either. And while I can see advocating for Cal or UCLA, "unlikely to enjoy the extreme southerness of Duke" is just a retarded, stereotypical, and frankly untrue reason to decide against giving a school consideration.

I can see the LS not being like this. The undergrad part of Duke is really fratty though. I've heard from several friends that frats like this http://www.duke.edu/web/dsphi/ or SAE definitely have a strong presence on campus and like it or not, Duke LS is at Duke's campus... so I think the point is valid.

You're right, it's not a good reason to not attend Duke. I'm only speaking from personal experience when I say that coming to the South as an outsider can cause a bigger case of culture shock than you'd expect, given that you aren't even leaving your own country. I've gotten the same thing from Kentucky friends of mine who visited me in Washington. People in the South just do things differently than the west coast and vice versa. I dont think you can deny that.

Maybe it's just me, but Durham was not a difficult transition in any way, shape, or form.

I'd jump in and say both posters ^ are making valid points.

Duke is a douchebag school. That is a subjective evaluation of course, but barely. Having said that, it is easy to start conflating a school's UG reputation with its law school, which we're all smart enough to know is just downright faulty. Duke Law School is still douchey, but I'd say much less douchey than the UG.

I don't understand this^.

We specialize in all things fratty.

<facepalm>

[Xiaolong]

can someone point me to the suggestion that only 10% at ucla was safe?

i would have guessed top 1/3. conservatively.

There is no figure showing 10%. That's something the troll fairy cooked up.. It is top 1/3, and even that is somewhat conservative.

Placement proportions are BS anyways as a much more accurate figure would be the percentage of people who secured BigLaw AND who were looking for BigLaw. UCLA has a ton of PI people, people looking to do academics, and people going into think-tanks. I'd guess that about 50%+ of people who wanted BigLaw got it. (That's still dismal, but so was the economy).

If you are going to troll it up with me here, just look at the NLJ rankings this year (I have a paper copy of it). UCLA places right where it should be: at around #15, and then there's Yale, placed right below it. That should speak to the relevance of the "BigLaw placement statistic" - it's not very relevant in many cases.

You can't go by 2009 data, because they OCI'd in 2007.


We need OCI data for those who did OCI in 2009. Anyone know how many 2L's at ULCA got market paying SA gigs?

No, we need OCI data for 2011 for a realistic assesment of OPs biglaw chances out of UCLA.

[Grad09]

I've been living in california for about a year now. I moved from the east coast, where the UCs are unheard of. Here, its a different story.

From what I have heard, the UCs are the best schools in Cali. Hands down. (stanford aside) UCLA is allegedly the hegemon of the south california legal market, while berkeley and stanford triumph in the north.

Honestly, there may be a difference in employment prospects, but I suspect its minimal. I think it matters more what you do DURING law school to secure that job.

UCLA w/105K is RIDICULOUS money for a RIDICULOUSly competitive school. So you don't go to your dream school? Big deal. You can say you got in to your dream school, but ITE you took the free ride at UCLA. OR you can run the risk of not getting that biglaw job and figuring out how to pay back 1600 a month solely on law school loans while living comfortably.

You won't exactly be scoffed at or frowned upon. You'll be more than fine.


UCLA