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I don't think you can make a "crazy" choice between those two, unless you turn down significant money at one for sticker at another.amputatedbrain wrote:What do people out there think about choosing Berkeley over NYU and Columbia if I'm sure I want to stay on the West coast. NYU I sense is an easier call, but what about Columbia? Is it crazy to pick C over B under any circumstance, money aside?
This becomes less and less true the higher in the rankings you go, and it's tough to get much higher than Columbia. If you do end up at CLS, just focus on spending summers out West and networking then.Renzo wrote:You'd be crazy not to. Networking opportunities and alumni network matter infinitely more than the USNWR, and it's hard to network from 2000 miles away from where you want to work.
I partially agree. It does matter less the higher you go, but it still matters. The difference between Berkeley and CLS isn't enough to overcome the geography in my opinion. As a comparison, I want to work in NYC and I think I'd be crazy to trade NYU for Stanford. Is Stanford a "better" school? Probably. But I would be missing out on weekly opportunities to meet and schmooze partners/hiring committee members at firms in the market I want to be in.AngryAvocado wrote:This becomes less and less true the higher in the rankings you go, and it's tough to get much higher than Columbia. If you do end up at CLS, just focus on spending summers out West and networking then.Renzo wrote:You'd be crazy not to. Networking opportunities and alumni network matter infinitely more than the USNWR, and it's hard to network from 2000 miles away from where you want to work.
Again, you really can't go wrong either way.
+1. For biglaw, it's pretty much all about your grades and what firms go to your school's OCI. Networking doesn't really cut it for biglaw unless the partner is a family member or whatever.JSUVA2012 wrote:Important question: are you from California? If so, CLS. "Networking" doesn't matter too much when virtually every major CA firm is coming to OCI at your school.
I don't necessarily think that Columbia is better than Boalt for the OP, but it's misleading to characterize CLS as a "hard and fast East Coast school." Columbia's national placement is remarkable. Check out the following:ccs224 wrote:Yes, Boalt is better. Columbia, though universally acknowledged as a great school, is also a hard and fast East Coast school. If you want to be on the left coast, go with the best school there (minus Stanford).
I agree that there are Columbia grads everywhere. I wasn't attempting to make a comment about placement, but just pointing out that its identity is essentially tied with the east coast. Berkeley also shoots out a lot of grads, but it is a quinitessentially west coast school; if that's where you want to be, and all other factors being more or less equal, you might as well go to the school most associated with your market.Dignan wrote:I don't necessarily think that Columbia is better than Boalt for the OP, but it's misleading to characterize CLS as a "hard and fast East Coast school." Columbia's national placement is remarkable. Check out the following:ccs224 wrote:Yes, Boalt is better. Columbia, though universally acknowledged as a great school, is also a hard and fast East Coast school. If you want to be on the left coast, go with the best school there (minus Stanford).
http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/student ... w/data.htm
CLS places well in every major market. In many of the elite California firms, CLS places as many grads as SLS and Boalt. I realize that CLS has a fairly large class size, but when you consider how many CLS grads self-select into the NYC market, it's impressive how many end up in California.
Absolutely, CLS + CA ties matches or beats Boalt IMO, but you can't go wrong with either choice.JSUVA2012 wrote:Important question: are you from California? If so, CLS. "Networking" doesn't matter too much when virtually every major CA firm is coming to OCI at your school.
But what if the "quintessentially west coast school" gives you inferior opportunities on the west coast when compared to Columbia? I've heard a lot of stories from CLS grads claiming they had an easier time finding jobs in California than did their Boalt counterparts. For awhile, I doubted the value of these anecdotes, but the statistics I've seen are starting to make me wonder.ccs224 wrote:I agree that there are Columbia grads everywhere. I wasn't attempting to make a comment about placement, but just pointing out that its identity is essentially tied with the east coast. Berkeley also shoots out a lot of grads, but it is a quinitessentially west coast school; if that's where you want to be, and all other factors being more or less equal, you might as well go to the school most associated with your market.Dignan wrote:I don't necessarily think that Columbia is better than Boalt for the OP, but it's misleading to characterize CLS as a "hard and fast East Coast school." Columbia's national placement is remarkable. Check out the following:ccs224 wrote:Yes, Boalt is better. Columbia, though universally acknowledged as a great school, is also a hard and fast East Coast school. If you want to be on the left coast, go with the best school there (minus Stanford).
http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/student ... w/data.htm
CLS places well in every major market. In many of the elite California firms, CLS places as many grads as SLS and Boalt. I realize that CLS has a fairly large class size, but when you consider how many CLS grads self-select into the NYC market, it's impressive how many end up in California.
I wouldn't assume that you'd have to fly anywhere. My understanding is that west coast firms are extremely well represented at Columbia's OCI.amputatedbrain wrote:Thanks for all the opinions . . . I'm actually from the Pacific NW, but unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a T-14 school. All things considered I'm leaning strong for Berk, mostly because I'm assuming I'd have to fly home for networking/interviews, and the travel costs from the bay are obviously much easier than from NY
amputatedbrain wrote:Thanks for all the opinions . . . I'm actually from the Pacific NW, but unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a T-14 school. All things considered I'm leaning strong for Berk, mostly because I'm assuming I'd have to fly home for networking/interviews, and the travel costs from the bay are obviously much easier than from NY
Holy shit. How are there so many UCLA grads at Jones Day in Cleveland?!
Correct. Your first interviews for biglaw are always at OCI. If you get callbacks from it, firms pay for your fare in full to interview a second time at their office. (My friend got callbacks in both SF and NYC and had everything paid for.)EijiMiyake wrote:amputatedbrain wrote:Thanks for all the opinions . . . I'm actually from the Pacific NW, but unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a T-14 school. All things considered I'm leaning strong for Berk, mostly because I'm assuming I'd have to fly home for networking/interviews, and the travel costs from the bay are obviously much easier than from NY
This should not be a concern. Firms will pay for your travel, and you can try to line up interviews with PI employers when you're home for the holidays/breaks.
Actually, it becomes more and more true the higher in the rankings you go. At a certain point, your school rank is good enough for them to be confident about your competence and it comes down to a question of fit. In such a circumstance, shared experience is wayyyyyy more helpful than two spots in the USNWR.AngryAvocado wrote:This becomes less and less true the higher in the rankings you go, and it's tough to get much higher than Columbia. If you do end up at CLS, just focus on spending summers out West and networking then.Renzo wrote:You'd be crazy not to. Networking opportunities and alumni network matter infinitely more than the USNWR, and it's hard to network from 2000 miles away from where you want to work.
Again, you really can't go wrong either way.
fortissimo wrote:OP isn't getting into Columbia with a 3.8, 164...so this is pretty stupid.
You didn't get into NYU or Columbia....amputatedbrain wrote:What do people out there think about choosing Berkeley over NYU and Columbia if I'm sure I want to stay on the West coast. NYU I sense is an easier call, but what about Columbia? Is it crazy to pick C over B under any circumstance, money aside?