Boalt over CLS for West coast?

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amputatedbrain
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Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby amputatedbrain » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:50 pm

What do people out there think about choosing Berkeley over NYU and Columbia if I'm sure I want to stay on the West coast. NYU I sense is an easier call, but what about Columbia? Is it crazy to pick C over B under any circumstance, money aside?

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby AngryAvocado » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:53 pm

amputatedbrain wrote:What do people out there think about choosing Berkeley over NYU and Columbia if I'm sure I want to stay on the West coast. NYU I sense is an easier call, but what about Columbia? Is it crazy to pick C over B under any circumstance, money aside?


I don't think you can make a "crazy" choice between those two, unless you turn down significant money at one for sticker at another.

Renzo
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby Renzo » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:56 pm

You'd be crazy not to. Networking opportunities and alumni network matter infinitely more than the USNWR, and it's hard to network from 2000 miles away from where you want to work.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby AngryAvocado » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:01 am

Renzo wrote:You'd be crazy not to. Networking opportunities and alumni network matter infinitely more than the USNWR, and it's hard to network from 2000 miles away from where you want to work.


This becomes less and less true the higher in the rankings you go, and it's tough to get much higher than Columbia. If you do end up at CLS, just focus on spending summers out West and networking then.

Again, you really can't go wrong either way.

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RVP11
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby RVP11 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:08 am

Important question: are you from California? If so, CLS. "Networking" doesn't matter too much when virtually every major CA firm is coming to OCI at your school.

Renzo
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby Renzo » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:48 am

AngryAvocado wrote:
Renzo wrote:You'd be crazy not to. Networking opportunities and alumni network matter infinitely more than the USNWR, and it's hard to network from 2000 miles away from where you want to work.


This becomes less and less true the higher in the rankings you go, and it's tough to get much higher than Columbia. If you do end up at CLS, just focus on spending summers out West and networking then.

Again, you really can't go wrong either way.

I partially agree. It does matter less the higher you go, but it still matters. The difference between Berkeley and CLS isn't enough to overcome the geography in my opinion. As a comparison, I want to work in NYC and I think I'd be crazy to trade NYU for Stanford. Is Stanford a "better" school? Probably. But I would be missing out on weekly opportunities to meet and schmooze partners/hiring committee members at firms in the market I want to be in.

fortissimo
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby fortissimo » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:30 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:Important question: are you from California? If so, CLS. "Networking" doesn't matter too much when virtually every major CA firm is coming to OCI at your school.


+1. For biglaw, it's pretty much all about your grades and what firms go to your school's OCI. Networking doesn't really cut it for biglaw unless the partner is a family member or whatever.

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ccs224
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby ccs224 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:39 am

Yes, Boalt is better. Columbia, though universally acknowledged as a great school, is also a hard and fast East Coast school. If you want to be on the left coast, go with the best school there (minus Stanford).

I speak without any experience.

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby Dignan » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:21 am

ccs224 wrote:Yes, Boalt is better. Columbia, though universally acknowledged as a great school, is also a hard and fast East Coast school. If you want to be on the left coast, go with the best school there (minus Stanford).

I don't necessarily think that Columbia is better than Boalt for the OP, but it's misleading to characterize CLS as a "hard and fast East Coast school." Columbia's national placement is remarkable. Check out the following:

http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/students/sullivan/law/data.htm

CLS places well in every major market. In many of the elite California firms, CLS places as many grads as SLS and Boalt. I realize that CLS has a fairly large class size, but when you consider how many CLS grads self-select into the NYC market, it's impressive how many end up in California.

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ccs224
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby ccs224 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:34 am

Dignan wrote:
ccs224 wrote:Yes, Boalt is better. Columbia, though universally acknowledged as a great school, is also a hard and fast East Coast school. If you want to be on the left coast, go with the best school there (minus Stanford).

I don't necessarily think that Columbia is better than Boalt for the OP, but it's misleading to characterize CLS as a "hard and fast East Coast school." Columbia's national placement is remarkable. Check out the following:

http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/students/sullivan/law/data.htm

CLS places well in every major market. In many of the elite California firms, CLS places as many grads as SLS and Boalt. I realize that CLS has a fairly large class size, but when you consider how many CLS grads self-select into the NYC market, it's impressive how many end up in California.


I agree that there are Columbia grads everywhere. I wasn't attempting to make a comment about placement, but just pointing out that its identity is essentially tied with the east coast. Berkeley also shoots out a lot of grads, but it is a quinitessentially west coast school; if that's where you want to be, and all other factors being more or less equal, you might as well go to the school most associated with your market.

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im_blue
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby im_blue » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:37 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:Important question: are you from California? If so, CLS. "Networking" doesn't matter too much when virtually every major CA firm is coming to OCI at your school.


Absolutely, CLS + CA ties matches or beats Boalt IMO, but you can't go wrong with either choice.

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby Dignan » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:44 am

ccs224 wrote:
Dignan wrote:
ccs224 wrote:Yes, Boalt is better. Columbia, though universally acknowledged as a great school, is also a hard and fast East Coast school. If you want to be on the left coast, go with the best school there (minus Stanford).

I don't necessarily think that Columbia is better than Boalt for the OP, but it's misleading to characterize CLS as a "hard and fast East Coast school." Columbia's national placement is remarkable. Check out the following:

http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/students/sullivan/law/data.htm

CLS places well in every major market. In many of the elite California firms, CLS places as many grads as SLS and Boalt. I realize that CLS has a fairly large class size, but when you consider how many CLS grads self-select into the NYC market, it's impressive how many end up in California.


I agree that there are Columbia grads everywhere. I wasn't attempting to make a comment about placement, but just pointing out that its identity is essentially tied with the east coast. Berkeley also shoots out a lot of grads, but it is a quinitessentially west coast school; if that's where you want to be, and all other factors being more or less equal, you might as well go to the school most associated with your market.

But what if the "quintessentially west coast school" gives you inferior opportunities on the west coast when compared to Columbia? I've heard a lot of stories from CLS grads claiming they had an easier time finding jobs in California than did their Boalt counterparts. For awhile, I doubted the value of these anecdotes, but the statistics I've seen are starting to make me wonder.

By the way, I'm talking about private sector firm jobs. If the OP wants PI in California, then Boalt is close to a no-brainer.

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amputatedbrain
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby amputatedbrain » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:46 am

Thanks for all the opinions . . . I'm actually from the Pacific NW, but unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a T-14 school. All things considered I'm leaning strong for Berk, mostly because I'm assuming I'd have to fly home for networking/interviews, and the travel costs from the bay are obviously much easier than from NY

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Dignan
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby Dignan » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:49 am

amputatedbrain wrote:Thanks for all the opinions . . . I'm actually from the Pacific NW, but unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a T-14 school. All things considered I'm leaning strong for Berk, mostly because I'm assuming I'd have to fly home for networking/interviews, and the travel costs from the bay are obviously much easier than from NY

I wouldn't assume that you'd have to fly anywhere. My understanding is that west coast firms are extremely well represented at Columbia's OCI.

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EijiMiyake
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby EijiMiyake » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:49 am

amputatedbrain wrote:Thanks for all the opinions . . . I'm actually from the Pacific NW, but unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a T-14 school. All things considered I'm leaning strong for Berk, mostly because I'm assuming I'd have to fly home for networking/interviews, and the travel costs from the bay are obviously much easier than from NY



This should not be a concern. Firms will pay for your travel, and you can try to line up interviews with PI employers when you're home for the holidays/breaks.

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crackberry
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby crackberry » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:32 pm



Holy shit. How are there so many UCLA grads at Jones Day in Cleveland?!

legends159
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby legends159 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:41 pm

0 SLS at Cravath before 2006?

what's up with that?

fortissimo
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby fortissimo » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:42 pm

EijiMiyake wrote:
amputatedbrain wrote:Thanks for all the opinions . . . I'm actually from the Pacific NW, but unfortunately Seattle doesn't have a T-14 school. All things considered I'm leaning strong for Berk, mostly because I'm assuming I'd have to fly home for networking/interviews, and the travel costs from the bay are obviously much easier than from NY



This should not be a concern. Firms will pay for your travel, and you can try to line up interviews with PI employers when you're home for the holidays/breaks.


Correct. Your first interviews for biglaw are always at OCI. If you get callbacks from it, firms pay for your fare in full to interview a second time at their office. (My friend got callbacks in both SF and NYC and had everything paid for.)

fortissimo
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby fortissimo » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:48 pm

Wait...OP's LSN says OP has a 3.89, 164 (non-URM). LSN says he is not in at Columbia.

Flame thread?

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Kohinoor
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby Kohinoor » Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:57 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
Renzo wrote:You'd be crazy not to. Networking opportunities and alumni network matter infinitely more than the USNWR, and it's hard to network from 2000 miles away from where you want to work.


This becomes less and less true the higher in the rankings you go, and it's tough to get much higher than Columbia. If you do end up at CLS, just focus on spending summers out West and networking then.

Again, you really can't go wrong either way.

Actually, it becomes more and more true the higher in the rankings you go. At a certain point, your school rank is good enough for them to be confident about your competence and it comes down to a question of fit. In such a circumstance, shared experience is wayyyyyy more helpful than two spots in the USNWR.

reverendt
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby reverendt » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:00 pm

Boalt.

Even the top schools are subject to at least some geographical bias. Going to Boalt you'll make connections on the West coast. You won't at CLS.

I doubt many (any) west coast firms will give your resume more consideration it it says CLS than they will if it says Boalt.

fortissimo
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby fortissimo » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:01 pm

OP isn't getting into Columbia with a 3.8, 164...so this is pretty stupid.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby kittenmittons » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:02 pm

fortissimo wrote:OP isn't getting into Columbia with a 3.8, 164...so this is pretty stupid.

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Unemployed
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby Unemployed » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:03 pm

Boalt because OP is not getting into Columbia or NYU

Edit: ff beat me to it

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gossipgirl
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Re: Boalt over CLS for West coast?

Postby gossipgirl » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:03 pm

amputatedbrain wrote:What do people out there think about choosing Berkeley over NYU and Columbia if I'm sure I want to stay on the West coast. NYU I sense is an easier call, but what about Columbia? Is it crazy to pick C over B under any circumstance, money aside?


You didn't get into NYU or Columbia....

Chill back with the overly optimistic (164 LSAT) hypothetical thread...




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