Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

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miamiman
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby miamiman » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:59 am

RUQRU wrote:
Vincent Vega wrote:
Cestjustemoi wrote:I wish there was a good law school in Orlando, it's my favorite city.


If either UF or FSU had its law school in Orlando, it would have been a top contender for me. And not just because of Disney World.


I live near Orlando, and I am at starting FAMU Fall 2010. As a non-trad (i.e. older) student I cannot afford either a private school or to move to another city. My job requires that I stay in the area. I think the recent changes, new faculty and new Administration will have a positive impact.

FWIW, I am not a minority, except for age, and I think some of the comments on this forum, not this thread, are borderline racist toward HBCs. Yes FAMU only has a 52% bar passage rate now. This is much lower than FIU, which the FL Legislature approved at the same time in 2000. But the school is moving in the right direction. They received full ABA accreditation last June. As another poster mentioned, as a state college the FL Legislature will not let FAMU fail.

Also, the school has a new building right next to the US District Court House in Orlando. A very nice facility by the way. For less than the cost of one year at another TTT private school you can get a law degree at FAMU! Since I have no ambitions to work in "big law" I am sure it will me my needs.

Once I start in the fall I'll post my impressions.

For me, location and the ~$5,000 /yr part-time tuition make it the only choice that would allow me to go to law school. Time will tell.


Good luck, man. But, really, at days end, TLS isn't trying to steer you wrong; they're giving you solidadvice, albeit in a seemingly meanspirited way. The problem with law is that there is too many ppl vying for the same jobs and so, like any other field that has too much labor, law defaults to prestige signals to select candidates for the few openings there are.

FAMU won't give you biglaw - you're right - but it may not even give you shitlaw or government opps either. The reality is that going to 4th tier schools in this economy is largely an exercise in futility and debt accumulation (though the latter may not be prohibitvely bad).

We just ask that you think this through before you do what a lot of kids do and plop down 50 or 100k on fabled job prospects.

mrm2083
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby mrm2083 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:12 am

Florida has some seriously bad schools. With that said, if someone's dream is to be a lawyer (and the school isn't costing them a lot) go ahead and do it. I know plenty of extremely successful (more so than most of the big law guys out there) lawyers who graduated from the extremely crappy Florida schools. It will lock you out of big law but these people were forced to open their own firms and that probably worked out better for them in the long run. This is coming from someone who wouldn't go to a TTT if you put a gun to my head so I'm not trying to make myself feel better lol.

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RUQRU
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby RUQRU » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:59 am

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Last edited by RUQRU on Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:13 am, edited 3 times in total.

Flanker1067
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Flanker1067 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:07 am

I think the low cost of FAM keeps it from being anywhere near the worst law school in the country. The above poster has a pretty good idea of what he is getting himself into and at a pretty low cost, doesn't sound too bad. Now peer schools (even if marginally "better") that are 40K a year, that is just so ridiculous it's hard to understand.

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Cosmic Zamboni
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Cosmic Zamboni » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:09 pm

There are two choices in Central Florida, and neither one is great. Barry University is a poor choice with a high price. FL A&M is well priced for FL residents. I'm an older non-traditional student. I've had a great career already. What I need is a JD and a license to accomplish what I'm looking to do. If I was 23 years old and looking for a law school, I'd move where ever I had to and get the best education available. For my needs, FL A&M is a Godsend.

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noleknight16
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby noleknight16 » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:19 pm

FAMU Law needs to get the hell out of Orlando. They're in Orlando currently because there's a FL law that prohibits schools within a certain mile radius from having the same program (such as engineering or law). FSU and FAMU are both in Tally so FAMU had to create their law school elsewhere.

But now UCF can't get in the Law School business because of FAMU, which sucks.

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romothesavior
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby romothesavior » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:45 pm

Nice necro.

If not FSU or UF, don't bother. Lol at the idea of more law schools in FL.

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Honey_Badger
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Honey_Badger » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:04 pm

romothesavior wrote:Nice necro.

If not FSU or UF, don't bother. Lol at the idea of more law schools in FL.

Florida International University is a relatively new law school, climbing up the ranks pretty quick (for a new, public law school) and had the highest bar passage rate of graduates than any other in FL last year.

No, it's not a T14 (more like 132-ish if I remember correctly,) but not too shabby for $15k/year and only 20% acceptance rate.

rad lulz
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:08 pm

Honey_Badger wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Nice necro.

If not FSU or UF, don't bother. Lol at the idea of more law schools in FL.

Florida International University is a relatively new law school, climbing up the ranks pretty quick (for a new, public law school) and had the highest bar passage rate of graduates than any other in FL last year.

No, it's not a T14 (more like 132-ish if I remember correctly,) but not too shabby for $15k/year and only 20% acceptance rate.

Acceptance rate doesn't mean shit for jobs.

How quick you climb up the rankings doesn't mean shit for jobs.

Just because you pass the bar doesn't mean you will get a job.

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Cosmic Zamboni
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Cosmic Zamboni » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:12 pm

There are crazier things you could do. Like graduating with $125k in debt. FAMU also has a part time 4 year program. Lot's to recommend it. UCF was far more focused on a medical school, which makes sense since there's both a shortage of doctors and a shortage of seats in medical schools. There's hardly a shortage of lawyers. It was never my 1st career choice.

rad lulz
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:15 pm

Cosmic Zamboni wrote:There are crazier things you could do. Like graduating with $125k in debt. FAMU also has a part time 4 year program. Lot's to recommend it. UCF was far more focused on a medical school, which makes sense since there's both a shortage of doctors and a shortage of seats in medical schools. There's hardly a shortage of lawyers. It was never my 1st career choice.

If I wanted to, you know, be a lawyer, I'd much rather pay $125 at like Cornell than go to FAMU for free.

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Cosmic Zamboni
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Cosmic Zamboni » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:20 pm

I'm fortunate enough to have had a very successful career. As I said before,
I've had a great career already. What I need is a JD and a license to accomplish what I'm looking to do.


However, to be honest, my large entrepreneurial streak tends to dominate what I do. An entrepreneur lawyer doesn't necessarily have a problem with their law school's prestige. Those who want to work for a salary have a greater need in that regard.

God bless the indentured servants working to pay off that kind of debt. It's hard to do on a $60k a year job, which is what many such creatures make.

rad lulz
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:24 pm

Cosmic Zamboni wrote:I'm fortunate enough to have had a very successful career. As I said before,
I've had a great career already. What I need is a JD and a license to accomplish what I'm looking to do.


However, to be honest, my large entrepreneurial streak tends to dominate what I do. An entrepreneur lawyer doesn't necessarily have a problem with their law school's prestige. Those who want to work for a salary have a greater need in that regard.

God bless the indentured servants working to pay off that kind of debt. It's hard to do on a $60k a year job, which is what many such creatures make.

If you've had a successful career and just need the slip of paper, that's one thing. Most law applicants don't have that luxury. For those people, you can't just "be entrepreneurial" and say start your own solo practice when law school doesn't teach you how to do anything.

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Honey_Badger
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Honey_Badger » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:09 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Cosmic Zamboni wrote:If you've had a successful career and just need the slip of paper, that's one thing. Most law applicants don't have that luxury. For those people, you can't just "be entrepreneurial" and say start your own solo practice when law school doesn't teach you how to do anything.


I guess I'm fortunate to be heading to school that won't do "shit for jobs" since i've had a successful career. (Even though FIU's employment rate isn't 'shit.')

But hey, thanks for welcoming me in true TLS style. :roll:

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:26 pm

Honey_Badger wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Cosmic Zamboni wrote:If you've had a successful career and just need the slip of paper, that's one thing. Most law applicants don't have that luxury. For those people, you can't just "be entrepreneurial" and say start your own solo practice when law school doesn't teach you how to do anything.


I guess I'm fortunate to be heading to school that won't do "shit for jobs" since i've had a successful career. (Even though FIU's employment rate isn't 'shit.')

But hey, thanks for welcoming me in true TLS style. :roll:

Your username seems poorly chosen.

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Br3v
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Br3v » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 pm

Why would one go to a non ABA school? Looking for a real reason, there has to be some logical explanation as to why they exist.

rad lulz
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:08 am

Honey_Badger wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Cosmic Zamboni wrote:If you've had a successful career and just need the slip of paper, that's one thing. Most law applicants don't have that luxury. For those people, you can't just "be entrepreneurial" and say start your own solo practice when law school doesn't teach you how to do anything.


I guess I'm fortunate to be heading to school that won't do "shit for jobs" since i've had a successful career. (Even though FIU's employment rate isn't 'shit.')

But hey, thanks for welcoming me in true TLS style. :roll:

For c/o 2011, only 102 out of 151 got long term job in non-business and industry (aka long-term lawyer jobs). That's like two thirds. Out of those 102, 53 were in firms of 1-10. That's a pretty problematic category, as going solo out of law school is a bad idea, and a healthy amount of those small firms might very well be recent grads banding together to make a go of it, not a great idea either. Only 27 got jobs with firms of 50+/PI/gov/fed clerks. These stats are pretty bad. At least it's cheap I guess.

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JCFindley
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby JCFindley » Sun Jun 10, 2012 8:10 am

--ImageRemoved--

Go Rattlers....

Hey, different law schools for different needs..... IF you are already in Orlando and working full time and want to get a JD for whatever reason (So long as that reason isn't working biglaw) then why not.... It won't cost you a lot if anything except time and effort.....

So the washout rate is high, I hear it is like 95% in BUDS training for the Navy SEALs so high washout rates are a good thing....(This is not a serious statement for those of you that cannot tell just by reading it...)


But this is, FAMU is no where near the worst school simply because you can go there relatively cheaply, get a JD that you may need/want for any number of reasons while you continue to work full time at the day job...

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romothesavior
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:15 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Honey_Badger wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Cosmic Zamboni wrote:If you've had a successful career and just need the slip of paper, that's one thing. Most law applicants don't have that luxury. For those people, you can't just "be entrepreneurial" and say start your own solo practice when law school doesn't teach you how to do anything.


I guess I'm fortunate to be heading to school that won't do "shit for jobs" since i've had a successful career. (Even though FIU's employment rate isn't 'shit.')

But hey, thanks for welcoming me in true TLS style. :roll:

For c/o 2011, only 102 out of 151 got long term job in non-business and industry (aka long-term lawyer jobs). That's like two thirds. Out of those 102, 53 were in firms of 1-10. That's a pretty problematic category, as going solo out of law school is a bad idea, and a healthy amount of those small firms might very well be recent grads banding together to make a go of it, not a great idea either. Only 27 got jobs with firms of 50+/PI/gov/fed clerks. These stats are pretty bad. At least it's cheap I guess.

Stats >>>>> Talking out your ass

Genuine congratulations to those of you who claim to have had successful careers. But successful and established attorneys, while very insightful when it comes to practicing law, what it takes to succeed long-term, etc., are usually the most out of touch regarding job prospects. So claiming to have had a successful career isn't really going to get you any credibility on the jobs issue.

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Mr. Pancakes
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Mr. Pancakes » Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:20 pm

darknightbegins wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
darknightbegins wrote:So I've been trolling the stats on my USNWR premium subscribtion and came over the stats for Florida A&M. The percent of first year law students discontinuing law school is almost 38! This is unreal. There are other stats that I find very surprising but don't necessarily say the school is bad. But a 38 percent attrition rate? WTF? Is Florida A&M worse than Cooley?


subtle "I'm rich enough to afford to afford premium subscriptions" trolling


Rich enough? It cost me like 15 dollars.

Who the fuck do you think you are? We got ourselves a regular warren buffet.
I wish I had 15 dollars to waste.

Deevan
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Deevan » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:51 pm

So, full ride to Barry or six figures in debt to a 1 or 2 tier school?

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goldenflash19
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby goldenflash19 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:22 pm

Deevan wrote:So, full ride to Barry or six figures in debt to a 1 or 2 tier school?


What's the Tier 1 or 2 school? Do you have ties to its market? Are you talking more like $100k or $250k debt? Do you have a job lined up after school? Some info might help.

Deevan
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby Deevan » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:24 am

goldenflash19 wrote:
Deevan wrote:So, full ride to Barry or six figures in debt to a 1 or 2 tier school?


What's the Tier 1 or 2 school? Do you have ties to its market? Are you talking more like $100k or $250k debt? Do you have a job lined up after school? Some info might help.


Sorry, I suppose I should have, but I was merely looking for a hypothetical answer. I'm a Floridian, have a great job here in Orlando and am looking for a JD - UF is the only T2 school that I could possibly attend living in Orlando. (FSU is too far, UF is a 90 minute drive.)

I have the LSAT and GPA to get into UF without question, but not much of a scholarship. Unfortunately UF also would be Full Time, meaning I'd lose about 60k/yr in income - I would have to rely on loans, not to mention the standard of living for my family would suffer.

Barry is available part time, in Orlando, and my LSAT is high enough to garner a lot of scholarship money from them. I have a business background, and I don't want to work for someone else for long when I leave law school anyway. (I do have a job lined up at my current place of employment that requires a JD. Fiscally it makes sense, but no job is safe, ever, not kidding myself.) In essence, I want a ticket to the bar exam - thoughts on whether or not a T4 school will hurt me enough in reputation to literally damage a business?

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JCFindley
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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby JCFindley » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:27 pm

Deevan wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:
Deevan wrote:So, full ride to Barry or six figures in debt to a 1 or 2 tier school?


What's the Tier 1 or 2 school? Do you have ties to its market? Are you talking more like $100k or $250k debt? Do you have a job lined up after school? Some info might help.


Sorry, I suppose I should have, but I was merely looking for a hypothetical answer. I'm a Floridian, have a great job here in Orlando and am looking for a JD - UF is the only T2 school that I could possibly attend living in Orlando. (FSU is too far, UF is a 90 minute drive.)

I have the LSAT and GPA to get into UF without question, but not much of a scholarship. Unfortunately UF also would be Full Time, meaning I'd lose about 60k/yr in income - I would have to rely on loans, not to mention the standard of living for my family would suffer.

Barry is available part time, in Orlando, and my LSAT is high enough to garner a lot of scholarship money from them. I have a business background, and I don't want to work for someone else for long when I leave law school anyway. (I do have a job lined up at my current place of employment that requires a JD. Fiscally it makes sense, but no job is safe, ever, not kidding myself.) In essence, I want a ticket to the bar exam - thoughts on whether or not a T4 school will hurt me enough in reputation to literally damage a business?


It also depends on what kind of law you are looking to do afterwards. Suppose that JD job you have lined up and your plan is to hang the shingle. Are you looking at criminal law or a general practitioner or personal injury stuff? As far as starting your own business I don't think Barry would hurt you at all except finding a job in the short term that will teach you how to actually practice law.....

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Re: Is Florida A&M The worst law school in the country?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:58 pm

Deevan wrote:
goldenflash19 wrote:
Deevan wrote:So, full ride to Barry or six figures in debt to a 1 or 2 tier school?


What's the Tier 1 or 2 school? Do you have ties to its market? Are you talking more like $100k or $250k debt? Do you have a job lined up after school? Some info might help.


Sorry, I suppose I should have, but I was merely looking for a hypothetical answer. I'm a Floridian, have a great job here in Orlando and am looking for a JD - UF is the only T2 school that I could possibly attend living in Orlando. (FSU is too far, UF is a 90 minute drive.)

I have the LSAT and GPA to get into UF without question, but not much of a scholarship. Unfortunately UF also would be Full Time, meaning I'd lose about 60k/yr in income - I would have to rely on loans, not to mention the standard of living for my family would suffer.

Barry is available part time, in Orlando, and my LSAT is high enough to garner a lot of scholarship money from them. I have a business background, and I don't want to work for someone else for long when I leave law school anyway. (I do have a job lined up at my current place of employment that requires a JD. Fiscally it makes sense, but no job is safe, ever, not kidding myself.) In essence, I want a ticket to the bar exam - thoughts on whether or not a T4 school will hurt me enough in reputation to literally damage a business?


As long as you don't take out a lot of debt (like 30K might be reasonable) and can keep your current job it's fine. It's very difficult to open up your own practice straight out from law school or even 1-2 years out. Watch out for scholarship stipulations. You seem to be the kind of candidate part-time programs were created for before they turned into cash cows for law schools.




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