Top Law Schools

stratocophic wrote:

jrobby6 wrote:

rayiner wrote:Emory probably won't get you biglaw in Atlanta.

If you're PTing around 171-172, you owe it to yourself to retake if you get below 170 on the real thing (which you don't even know yet, so why worry now?)

172/3.7 = $$ at MVPBDNC.

interesting. care to explain why?

They place around 25% in Biglaw, less ITE. Thus, there is about a 75% chance that Emory won't get you Biglaw in Atlanta. Therefore, "probably won't get you Biglaw" is valid.

Agreed. Being a Georgia native, I love Emory and I have a ton of friends in LS there. But once the OCI class from ITE comes into play, that placement stat is more than likely going to be below 20%. Getting BigLaw will be tough, and Vandy seems to be cleaning house in ATL BigLaw these days.

pearl_earrings wrote:

thickfreakness wrote:Emory isn't worth it unless you're getting one of their fat 80K+ scholarships, which don't appear to exist this cycle. Going UGA->UGA Law shouldn't hurt you in your search for ATL BigLaw. If the choice is Emory vs. UGA then I'd definitely say UGA, especially if you're in-state all three years and could conceivably pull a scholarship.

What if in-state doesn't apply to me? Still UGA over Emory?

I'd still say so unless you've got a big scholarship to Emory or aren't footing the bill yourself. You can get in-state after your first year at UGA, and many times they offer a tuition equalization package to incoming students as a form of scholarship assistance.
Emory has more portability to the northeast and DC than UGA, but its placement advantages in Atlanta aren't going to be that different than those of UGA, yet it costs considerably more in tuition and COL.

scribelaw wrote:In an earlier thread OP started, he complained about the unfairness of the LSAT and argued no one should be allowed to study, and included a gratuitous, strange rant about URMs.

Now he's bragging about how he'll be top 10 percent at Emory, before he's even accepted.

Nicely done, sir.

I did not complain. I raised a question. There is a difference. I did not say the LSAT was not fair. I do not think anyone should be allowed to study for it, but I am sure I am not the only one that thinks this. Sure, my LSAT score would be a lot lower if I had not been allowed to take PTs or read through the LRB, but it would be a better representation of my capabilities. As long as everyone has access to nearly all of the materials available, the test is still fair. Using real life examples to express a point is not complaining.

There was no gratuitous, strange rant, either. I made a joking comment about URMs and was instantly attacked. At that point, the thread was far from its original purpose, so I didn't even bother to go back to it. One single joking statement does NOT qualify for a gratuitous rant in any way.

The estimated %s in my thread are all hypothetical. I wanted answers to my questions, not someone trolling through my threads simply to smear my ANONYMOUS ONLINE reputation. Go somewhere else to do that.

Thank you everyone else who actually helped.

In response to the actual OP, DO NOT apply this cycle. See how you did one the LSAT; they come out what, this Friday? If it's above 170, apply as soon as apps come out next year. If it's below 170, retake in June and apply as soon as apps come out next year.

There is no reason that you should even be thinking about going to Emory if you can manage a 172/3.7 and want big law in ATL/DC. Like rayiner said, you will be into the lower T14 (Vandy if you like ATL a lot) with $$$, any of which are >>>>>> Emory (now and for the next 4 years at the very least).

missvik218 wrote:In response to the actual OP, DO NOT apply this cycle. See how you did one the LSAT; they come out what, this Friday? If it's above 170, apply as soon as apps come out next year. If it's below 170, retake in June and apply as soon as apps come out next year.

There is no reason that you should even be thinking about going to Emory if you can manage a 172/3.7 and want big law in ATL/DC. Like rayiner said, you will be into the lower T14 (Vandy if you like ATL a lot) with $$$, any of which are >>>>>> Emory (now and for the next 4 years at the very least).

That seems to be the consensus. You guys seem more knowledgeable about this stuff than me, and I respect your advice. I think I am going to go this route and wait until Fall 2011. I don't want to sell myself short by attending a lesser school than which I am capable of being admitted. Now, to find something to do for the next year and a half...

Pricer wrote:
You can laugh, but I feel like I am capable of performing at this level. I wasn't too serious about school my first couple of years, which is why my GPA is a 3.7. I didn't do so well Fall 2008, so I got my act together. Last Spring, I finished with three As and two A-s. This past fall, I had four As. When I apply myself, I can handle difficult classes and subjects. I'm a bit more mature now than I was in my earlier undergrad days, and I have every intention of continuing this trend of performing at my true potential throughout law school.

Dude.

The vast, vast, vast majority of law students at top 30 (at least) schools are capable of getting 3 A's and 2 A-'s in a semester in undergrad. Or 4 A's. Or straight A's. These are the people you're competing with. And the curve will be far more strict than it was in undergrad.

I'm not saying you're incapable, but everyone who told you assuming you'll be in the top 25% is dangerous is absolutely correct.

But ultimately, I agree with the idea that you should wait until next cycle. Your options will increase dramatically.

I would have thought that Emory would place better than UGA into the Atlanta market.. but it seems like that isn't the case?

What are the reasons for this? The alumni network?

0L nonsense. Emory places better than UGA for biglaw in Atlanta. Maybe UGA places more people numerically, but that is because many top Emory students go elsewhere (DC, NYC).

Emory law has been in Atlanta since the early 1900s, so there is a strong alumni base there. Don't let random TLS bashing fool you on the school.

I'm not going to argue that T14 take away jobs from Emory students. That is true, and employers here do go deeper into T14 than for Emory. But Emory has strong placement in Atlanta for big and mid-law, and places better than UGA and Georgia State.

To the OP, it does not matter if Emory is ranked #20 or #30, it will still have a lot of respect in Atlanta.

treeey86 wrote:0L nonsense. Emory places better than UGA for biglaw in Atlanta. Maybe UGA places more people numerically, but that is because many top Emory students go elsewhere (DC, NYC).

Emory law has been in Atlanta since the early 1900s, so there is a strong alumni base there. Don't let random TLS bashing fool you on the school.

I'm not going to argue that T14 take away jobs from Emory students. That is true, and employers here do go deeper into T14 than for Emory. But Emory has strong placement in Atlanta for big and mid-law, and places better than UGA and Georgia State.

To the OP, it does not matter if Emory is ranked #20 or #30, it will still have a lot of respect in Atlanta.

That's all true, but must be tempered by the fact that Emory's strong placement is still only top 25% of the class and probably less ITE. You can't count on automatically getting Biglaw if you go there; odds are not in favor of Emory students despite it being a good school. I'm not trolling it, it's one of the schools I'm considering and I like both the school and area. It doesn't help anyone to have unrealistic expectations about T25 schools, and we're trying to temper overt optimism. Georgia is a cheaper option that makes Biglaw less likely, but not to an extreme amount, and possibly for a fraction of the cost. I'm not interested, but it may make sense for someone else.

treeey86 wrote:0L nonsense. Emory places better than UGA for biglaw in Atlanta. Maybe UGA places more people numerically, but that is because many top Emory students go elsewhere (DC, NYC).

Emory law has been in Atlanta since the early 1900s, so there is a strong alumni base there. Don't let random TLS bashing fool you on the school.

I'm not going to argue that T14 take away jobs from Emory students. That is true, and employers here do go deeper into T14 than for Emory. But Emory has strong placement in Atlanta for big and mid-law, and places better than UGA and Georgia State.

To the OP, it does not matter if Emory is ranked #20 or #30, it will still have a lot of respect in Atlanta.

My mother has a friend who is a partner at elarbee thompson out of Atlanta. I have been on contact with her about some of this, as well. She insists that UGA grads place just as easily, if not better, in Atlanta because of the strong alumni network. She did not go to UGA or Emory, so her view of these schools is unbiased. She said the ONLY reason for me to pick Emory over UGA would be if I wanted to move around the US, but in that case, I would be better off going to Vanderbilt, Texas, or a T14.

Pricer wrote:My mother has a friend who is a partner at Elarbee Thompson out of Atlanta. I have been on contact with her about some of this, as well. She insists that UGA grads place just as easily, if not better, in Atlanta because of the strong alumni network. She did not go to UGA or Emory, so her view of these schools is unbiased. She said the ONLY reason for me to pick Emory over UGA would be if I wanted to move around the US, but in that case, I would be better off going to Vanderbilt, Texas, or a T14.

This is interesting. I've heard similar things, but I went through every single attorney's profile at Elarbee and found that there were AT LEAST 10-15 Emory Law grads, whereas there were just 2 from UGA. Thats out of a sample of about ~40 attorneys.

This obviously isn't a scientific study or anything (and is only limited to one firm), but it is an interesting piece of information.

Also, check the NLJ250 reports that just recently came out. Emory has about a 9% better placement rate in biglaw. Maybe UGA grads place easily in ATL, but it seems like, of the schools in GA, Emory has better placement rates in biglaw and a better chance of getting there. Even if those chances are pretty weak ITE. No doubt Vandy and the T14 place higher, but for those that aren't getting into those schools, Emory may be the better choice in terms of job prospects.

Its a risk vs reward thing. Are you willing to take on additional debt in favor of better job prospects, or not?

--EDIT-- Sorry to have dug this thread up. Doing some research on Emory and forgot that this was a few weeks old.

cendien wrote:

Pricer wrote:My mother has a friend who is a partner at Elarbee Thompson out of Atlanta. I have been on contact with her about some of this, as well. She insists that UGA grads place just as easily, if not better, in Atlanta because of the strong alumni network. She did not go to UGA or Emory, so her view of these schools is unbiased. She said the ONLY reason for me to pick Emory over UGA would be if I wanted to move around the US, but in that case, I would be better off going to Vanderbilt, Texas, or a T14.

This is interesting. I've heard similar things, but I went through every single attorney's profile at Elarbee and found that there were AT LEAST 10-15 Emory Law grads, whereas there were just 2 from UGA. Thats out of a sample of about ~40 attorneys.

This obviously isn't a scientific study or anything, but it is an interesting piece of information.

Also, check the NLJ250 rankings that just recently came out. I wasn't able to find UGA on there at all. Maybe UGA grads place easily in ATL, but it seems like, of the schools in GA, Emory has better placement rates in biglaw and a better chance of getting there. Even if those chances are pretty weak ITE.

I think Emory's BigLaw #s are more likely from folks who are bolting back up to the northeast to work BigLaw in NYC. There are 8 NLJ250 firms based in Atlanta, and with how hiring was last year, you wouldn't expect Emory or UGA to rock placement in those firms because of other T14ers seeking those jobs. Even if they did dominate them, their numbers wouldn't be that great because 8 new associate classes would probably be between 50-70 people at best. There are firms other than those 8 NLJ250s in ATL that are going to pay market (around 120K in Atlanta) for new hires anyway. I think UGA is TCR for ATL unless you just have to have that Emory name on your resume.

thickfreakness wrote:I think Emory's BigLaw #s are more likely from folks who are bolting back up to the northeast to work BigLaw in NYC. There are 8 NLJ250 firms based in Atlanta, and with how hiring was last year, you wouldn't expect Emory or UGA to rock placement in those firms because of other T14ers seeking those jobs. Even if they did dominate them, their numbers wouldn't be that great because 8 new associate classes would probably be between 50-70 people at best. There are firms other than those 8 NLJ250s in ATL that are going to pay market (around 120K in Atlanta) for new hires anyway. I think UGA is TCR for ATL unless you just have to have that Emory name on your resume.

Its possible that Emory biglaw is more NYC/DC, etc. That being said, unless you want to live in ATL/GA, it seems like Emory may be better for job prospects generally. Maybe UGA is equal to Emory in GA, but if you have any desire to leave GA, Emory seems to win hands down.

Again, I feel like this is a question of preference and risk. Emory costs more, no doubt. But it offers more in many ways. Unless your goal is to stay in Georgia, Emory might be a better choice.

cendien wrote:

thickfreakness wrote:I think Emory's BigLaw #s are more likely from folks who are bolting back up to the northeast to work BigLaw in NYC. There are 8 NLJ250 firms based in Atlanta, and with how hiring was last year, you wouldn't expect Emory or UGA to rock placement in those firms because of other T14ers seeking those jobs. Even if they did dominate them, their numbers wouldn't be that great because 8 new associate classes would probably be between 50-70 people at best. There are firms other than those 8 NLJ250s in ATL that are going to pay market (around 120K in Atlanta) for new hires anyway. I think UGA is TCR for ATL unless you just have to have that Emory name on your resume.

Its possible that Emory biglaw is more NYC/DC, etc. That being said, unless you want to live in ATL/GA, it seems like Emory may be better for job prospects generally. Maybe UGA is equal to Emory in GA, but if you have any desire to leave GA, Emory seems to win hands down.

Again, I feel like this is a question of preference and risk. Emory costs more, no doubt. But it offers more in many ways. Unless your goal is to stay in Georgia, Emory might be a better choice.

I definitely think that Emory is better for placement outside of Georgia. IIRC OP said his preferred market was ATL, but this thread's been inactive for a little while so I don't remember exactly. And Emory and UGA are vastly different in terms of school feel and COL/QOL, which I think are vastly underrated aspects of the LS experience by a lot of TLS posters.

missvik218 wrote:There is no reason that you should even be thinking about going to Emory if you can manage a 172/3.7 and want big law in ATL/DC. Like rayiner said, you will be into the lower T14 (Vandy if you like ATL a lot) with $$$, any of which are >>>>>> Emory (now and for the next 4 years at the very least).

Thoughts on Vanderbilt vs. Emory?

pearl_earrings wrote:

missvik218 wrote:There is no reason that you should even be thinking about going to Emory if you can manage a 172/3.7 and want big law in ATL/DC. Like rayiner said, you will be into the lower T14 (Vandy if you like ATL a lot) with $$$, any of which are >>>>>> Emory (now and for the next 4 years at the very least).

Thoughts on Vanderbilt vs. Emory?

Vanderbilt > Emory in all scenarios (even in Atl)

f0bolous wrote:

pearl_earrings wrote:

missvik218 wrote:There is no reason that you should even be thinking about going to Emory if you can manage a 172/3.7 and want big law in ATL/DC. Like rayiner said, you will be into the lower T14 (Vandy if you like ATL a lot) with $$$, any of which are >>>>>> Emory (now and for the next 4 years at the very least).

Thoughts on Vanderbilt vs. Emory?

Vanderbilt > Emory in all scenarios (even in Atl)

Agreed. Vandy's an established top school throughout the south. With comparable class ranks it's not close.

thickfreakness wrote:

f0bolous wrote:

pearl_earrings wrote:

missvik218 wrote:There is no reason that you should even be thinking about going to Emory if you can manage a 172/3.7 and want big law in ATL/DC. Like rayiner said, you will be into the lower T14 (Vandy if you like ATL a lot) with $$$, any of which are >>>>>> Emory (now and for the next 4 years at the very least).

Thoughts on Vanderbilt vs. Emory?

Vanderbilt > Emory in all scenarios (even in Atl)

Agreed. Vandy's an established top school throughout the south. With comparable class ranks it's not close.

Really - that's fascinating and super helpful to hear. What about location? Honestly I've never visited either city, but for some reason I think I'd like Atlanta better. Is student satisfaction higher at one than the other?

I wouldnt count on vandy with $$$ with a low 170 score and a 3.7.....i just got waitlisted today with a 177 and 3.49

thickfreakness wrote:

f0bolous wrote:

pearl_earrings wrote:

missvik218 wrote:There is no reason that you should even be thinking about going to Emory if you can manage a 172/3.7 and want big law in ATL/DC. Like rayiner said, you will be into the lower T14 (Vandy if you like ATL a lot) with $$$, any of which are >>>>>> Emory (now and for the next 4 years at the very least).

Thoughts on Vanderbilt vs. Emory?

Vanderbilt > Emory in all scenarios (even in Atl)

Agreed. Vandy's an established top school throughout the south. With comparable class ranks it's not close.

I had a similar predicament, until I mentioned to my girlfriend's mother that I was weighing the two. She promptly informed me that I was FORBIDDEN from attending Emory under any circumstance. She's a fairly high-powered lawyer in a large Southern city, and said that, at least amongst her peers, Emory grads are disparaged and rarely hired. Emory apparently has a reputation amongst established lawyers as being full of cutthroat students who are bitter about not having good enough scores to get into Harvard, and are out to prove they belong. Vandy, on the other hand, has a bona fide national reach and, generally speaking, tends to be filled with people who want to be there (as opposed to, say, Cornell). So, in addition to across the board numbers, at least one anecdotal response, though harsh, quite emphatically gives the dominant edge to Vandy (and, frankly, to UGA if it came to that).

WIth that said, average numbers at Emory tends to get you more money than you would think!

If you are from Georgia and you are comfortable with Atlanta, you would probably be the only person in that situation to pay full tuition to attend Emory. Just doesn't make sense. They are peers in this city (with regards to law). Outside of Georgia, however, Emory has an advantage.

pearl_earrings wrote: Really - that's fascinating and super helpful to hear. What about location? Honestly I've never visited either city, but for some reason I think I'd like Atlanta better. Is student satisfaction higher at one than the other?

I think that students at Vanderbilt are much more cohesive and social with one another, and the overall environment is much more relaxed. I tell you this as someone who visited Emory multiple times last year, knows personally 2 1Ls there now, and has visited and knows a 2L at Vandy.

cvnrssm wrote:I wouldnt count on vandy with $$$ with a low 170 score and a 3.7.....i just got waitlisted today with a 177 and 3.49

Shit. Seriously? I have a 3.49/172 and was thinking I would be okay at least when it comes to Vandy. How did the rest of your cycle go?

treeey86 wrote:0L nonsense. Emory places better than UGA for biglaw in Atlanta. Maybe UGA places more people numerically, but that is because many top Emory students go elsewhere (DC, NYC).

Emory law has been in Atlanta since the early 1900s, so there is a strong alumni base there. Don't let random TLS bashing fool you on the school.

I'm not going to argue that T14 take away jobs from Emory students. That is true, and employers here do go deeper into T14 than for Emory. But Emory has strong placement in Atlanta for big and mid-law, and places better than UGA and Georgia State.

To the OP, it does not matter if Emory is ranked #20 or #30, it will still have a lot of respect in Atlanta.

LOL either this poster goes to Emory or has no idea what the Atlanta area is like (probably not from there or the state of Georgia period). Anyone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to Atlanta knows that UGA and Emory are viewed as being the same. It's outside of Atlanta where Emory law does better. In addition, people should really stop using the nlj250 for determining firm placement outside of areas like NYC, Chicago and DC. There are probably less than 10 firms in Atlanta that are even on the nlj250, yet there are much more than that they pay 125K plus in Atlanta (really the highest paying firms in Atlanta have less than 50 lawyers in them each).

cvnrssm wrote:I wouldnt count on vandy with $$$ with a low 170 score and a 3.7.....i just got waitlisted today with a 177 and 3.49

Dude that's called a YP. Plus, you probably applied late.