Emory vs. T14

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Pricer
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Emory vs. T14

Postby Pricer » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:35 pm

I searched the forums for any information comparing Emory to the T14, but all I can find is one very old thread comparing it to Georgetown. I have a few questions, and I am looking for some more up to date info. Any input is appreciated.

If I apply this cycle, Cornell is the only T14 I have a chance at, and that application was due on 2/1, so it is out of the question. Being from Georgia and doing my undergrad at UGA, if I am not attending a T14, Emory is my number one choice. I am looking to practice in Atlanta more than likely, but I am also attracted to the DC area. I wouldn't mind traveling and trying out new places (NY, CA), but I have a strong feeling I will settle in Atlanta. I want to do biglaw, especially since I will have a pretty hefty amount of debt when I graduate.

How does the future of Emory look? Will it maintain its spot at #20 for the next decade or more? Does it have a chance of breaking into the teens, making its way to #14-19? Or does it look like there is a better chance of it falling down to #25+? My main concern with Emory is that since it has only recently been recognized as a top law school, its prestige is more likely to fade out than the legendary T14. I don't want to go into a #20 school and graduate from a #30 school.

Is Emory worth the huge price tag? I am hoping to receive some money, but I expect to be paying 75-100% of the tuition if I apply this cycle. I have read that the job prospects for Emory grads are bleak. UGA and Vanderbilt seem to have an edge over Emory in the Atlanta market. Would it be better to just settle (well, it isn't really settling) with UGA law for a cheaper price tag?

Should I wait until next cycle? All of this is speculative, as I will not receive my LSAT score until this weekend. I am expecting a 166-168. I know I can do better, as my PTs (timed in real conditions) were 167-176, averaging about 171-172. I have a 3.7 undergrad GPA (3.69 LSDAS). Should I take a year off to work and retake, then apply early next cycle with a higher LSAT to the upper end of the T14? I know I am out at HYS, but I could slide into a spot at Georgetown, Cornell, UVA, Duke, etc. I am a white male, so I have absolutely no URM or diversity working for me. This also depends on me doing better on my second LSAT, scoring high enough to overshadow my first score.

My only problem with the year off plan is that I literally cannot find a job right now, and I do not know if that will change over the next year. I have applied for nearly 150 positions since September/October, and I was immediately rejected from over 90% of them. The rest were sales positions that the employers decided either they didn't want me when they found out I was not from the Atlanta area, or they would hire me under the conditions that I worked in my hometown for 4-5 days a week selling bullshit to my family and friends, then driving back to Atlanta to the homebase a few times a week. The only reason I secured the latter positions is because I interviewed surprisingly well. I have even been turned down from places like Papa John's and Smoothie King with a BBA in Finance simply because the only work experience I have is a lifeguarding position the summers before and after freshman year and a part time job in high school working for a lawyer. That is my main opposition to attending UGA law school; my BBA from UGA does not mean shit to anyone in Atlanta.

insidethetwenty
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby insidethetwenty » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:49 pm

Man, tough spot.

My instincts say to take the year off, retake, and then go to Duke/UVA or Vandy w/$. You'll have a much better chance at Atlanta BigLaw and you'll have far more portability than you would form Emory.

If you have to go this year, I certainly wouldn't pay full price for Emory. UGA with in-state tuition is probably the better value, especially if you are 80% sure you want to work in Atlanta. You might be missing out on a slightly more national name by not choosing Emory, but I don't think it would be worth the extra debt.

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rayiner
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:53 pm

Emory probably won't get you biglaw in Atlanta.

If you're PTing around 171-172, you owe it to yourself to retake if you get below 170 on the real thing (which you don't even know yet, so why worry now?)

172/3.7 = $$ at MVPBDNC.

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Pricer
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby Pricer » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:54 pm

Is this scenario possible? Let's say I make a 167 on the LSAT this round. Could I apply to T14 schools with this score and note that I plan to take the LSAT again in June? Would there be the possibility of being waitlisted until June, then getting admitted if I produce a high enough score?

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Jay-Electronica
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby Jay-Electronica » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:55 pm

rayiner wrote:Emory probably won't get you biglaw in Atlanta.

If you're PTing around 171-172, you owe it to yourself to retake if you get below 170 on the real thing (which you don't even know yet, so why worry now?)

172/3.7 = $$ at MVPBDNC.

lol wut?

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby stratocophic » Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:58 pm

T14 WINS
FATALITY

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rayiner
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:00 pm

Negrodamus wrote:
rayiner wrote:Emory probably won't get you biglaw in Atlanta.

If you're PTing around 171-172, you owe it to yourself to retake if you get below 170 on the real thing (which you don't even know yet, so why worry now?)

172/3.7 = $$ at MVPBDNC.

lol wut?


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

23.5% NLJ250 placement back when those folks did OCI in 2007 and the economy was good.

Median student = biglaw unlikely.

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Pricer
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby Pricer » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:04 pm

I expect to be in the top 25% at Emory, hopefully in the top 10-15%. In T14 (or at least 10-14), I expect to be in the top 50%, hopefully in the top 15-25%. This is based on my opinion after reading about the students and programs at the schools, as well as knowing my own capabilities. If I busted my ass and finished in top 10% at Emory, would biglaw really be that hard to get into?

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stratocophic
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby stratocophic » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:06 pm

rayiner wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
rayiner wrote:Emory probably won't get you biglaw in Atlanta.

If you're PTing around 171-172, you owe it to yourself to retake if you get below 170 on the real thing (which you don't even know yet, so why worry now?)

172/3.7 = $$ at MVPBDNC.

lol wut?


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

23.5% NLJ250 placement back when those folks did OCI in 2007 and the economy was good.

Median student = biglaw unlikely.

The word probably is the key here. Emory's got hometown advantage, but still has to deal with Vandy, Duke, and to a lesser extend maybe UVA. Maybe comparable to UIUC vs. Northwestern, Chicago, and sometimes Michigan, although the gulf is slightly less wide between Emory and its competitors.

Also, don't go to a school at which you wouldn't be happy with median. Everyone else going to Emory expects to be in the top 25%. To assume you are slumming is far from a safe bet.

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rayiner
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:23 pm

Pricer wrote:I expect to be in the top 25% at Emory, hopefully in the top 10-15%. In T14 (or at least 10-14), I expect to be in the top 50%, hopefully in the top 15-25%. This is based on my opinion after reading about the students and programs at the schools, as well as knowing my own capabilities. If I busted my ass and finished in top 10% at Emory, would biglaw really be that hard to get into?


LOLZ.

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Pricer
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby Pricer » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:37 pm

rayiner wrote:
Pricer wrote:I expect to be in the top 25% at Emory, hopefully in the top 10-15%. In T14 (or at least 10-14), I expect to be in the top 50%, hopefully in the top 15-25%. This is based on my opinion after reading about the students and programs at the schools, as well as knowing my own capabilities. If I busted my ass and finished in top 10% at Emory, would biglaw really be that hard to get into?


LOLZ.


You can laugh, but I feel like I am capable of performing at this level. I wasn't too serious about school my first couple of years, which is why my GPA is a 3.7. I didn't do so well Fall 2008, so I got my act together. Last Spring, I finished with three As and two A-s. This past fall, I had four As. When I apply myself, I can handle difficult classes and subjects. I'm a bit more mature now than I was in my earlier undergrad days, and I have every intention of continuing this trend of performing at my true potential throughout law school.

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stratocophic
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby stratocophic » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:38 pm

Pricer wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Pricer wrote:I expect to be in the top 25% at Emory, hopefully in the top 10-15%. In T14 (or at least 10-14), I expect to be in the top 50%, hopefully in the top 15-25%. This is based on my opinion after reading about the students and programs at the schools, as well as knowing my own capabilities. If I busted my ass and finished in top 10% at Emory, would biglaw really be that hard to get into?


LOLZ.


You can laugh, but I feel like I am capable of performing at this level. I wasn't too serious about school my first couple of years, which is why my GPA is a 3.7. I didn't do so well Fall 2008, so I got my act together. Last Spring, I finished with three As and two A-s. This past fall, I had four As. When I apply myself, I can handle difficult classes and subjects. I'm a bit more mature now than I was in my earlier undergrad days, and I have every intention of continuing this trend of performing at my true potential throughout law school.

Law school grading =/= undergrad. Emory is a GPA whore anyway, almost everyone else there has a good GPA too.

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rayiner
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:41 pm

Pricer wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Pricer wrote:I expect to be in the top 25% at Emory, hopefully in the top 10-15%. In T14 (or at least 10-14), I expect to be in the top 50%, hopefully in the top 15-25%. This is based on my opinion after reading about the students and programs at the schools, as well as knowing my own capabilities. If I busted my ass and finished in top 10% at Emory, would biglaw really be that hard to get into?


LOLZ.


You can laugh, but I feel like I am capable of performing at this level. I wasn't too serious about school my first couple of years, which is why my GPA is a 3.7. I didn't do so well Fall 2008, so I got my act together. Last Spring, I finished with three As and two A-s. This past fall, I had four As. When I apply myself, I can handle difficult classes and subjects. I'm a bit more mature now than I was in my earlier undergrad days, and I have every intention of continuing this trend of performing at my true potential throughout law school.


I laugh because I've taken LS exams and if you think your UGPA and "applying yourself" has anything to do with your grades...

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby Rawlsian » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:43 pm

edit: deleted

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Pricer
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby Pricer » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:45 pm

Pricer wrote:How does the future of Emory look? Will it maintain its spot at #20 for the next decade or more? Does it have a chance of breaking into the teens, making its way to #14-19? Or does it look like there is a better chance of it falling down to #25+? My main concern with Emory is that since it has only recently been recognized as a top law school, its prestige is more likely to fade out than the legendary T14. I don't want to go into a #20 school and graduate from a #30 school.


Back to one of my main concerns, can anyone cast any light on this?

http://www.concurringopinions.com/archi ... ing_1.html
According to this, their ranking was rocky between 1997 and 2006.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:54 pm

Pricer wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Pricer wrote:I expect to be in the top 25% at Emory, hopefully in the top 10-15%. In T14 (or at least 10-14), I expect to be in the top 50%, hopefully in the top 15-25%. This is based on my opinion after reading about the students and programs at the schools, as well as knowing my own capabilities. If I busted my ass and finished in top 10% at Emory, would biglaw really be that hard to get into?


LOLZ.


You can laugh, but I feel like I am capable of performing at this level. I wasn't too serious about school my first couple of years, which is why my GPA is a 3.7. I didn't do so well Fall 2008, so I got my act together. Last Spring, I finished with three As and two A-s. This past fall, I had four As. When I apply myself, I can handle difficult classes and subjects. I'm a bit more mature now than I was in my earlier undergrad days, and I have every intention of continuing this trend of performing at my true potential throughout law school.


Since your natural abilities mean you are guaranteed to finish at the top of your class, why not just save some money and go to UGA or take a big scholly from Alabama?

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby fortissimo » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:07 pm

rayiner wrote:
Pricer wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Pricer wrote:I expect to be in the top 25% at Emory, hopefully in the top 10-15%. In T14 (or at least 10-14), I expect to be in the top 50%, hopefully in the top 15-25%. This is based on my opinion after reading about the students and programs at the schools, as well as knowing my own capabilities. If I busted my ass and finished in top 10% at Emory, would biglaw really be that hard to get into?


LOLZ.


You can laugh, but I feel like I am capable of performing at this level. I wasn't too serious about school my first couple of years, which is why my GPA is a 3.7. I didn't do so well Fall 2008, so I got my act together. Last Spring, I finished with three As and two A-s. This past fall, I had four As. When I apply myself, I can handle difficult classes and subjects. I'm a bit more mature now than I was in my earlier undergrad days, and I have every intention of continuing this trend of performing at my true potential throughout law school.


I laugh because I've taken LS exams and if you think your UGPA and "applying yourself" has anything to do with your grades...


If he studies 10/12+ hours a day, maybe...but for the vast majority of us non-robots, exams are like taking a shot in the dark. And most of the time you walk out having no idea how you've done. It's nothing like undergrad though...nuttin.

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby thickfreakness » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:18 pm

Emory isn't worth it unless you're getting one of their fat 80K+ scholarships, which don't appear to exist this cycle. Going UGA->UGA Law shouldn't hurt you in your search for ATL BigLaw. If the choice is Emory vs. UGA then I'd definitely say UGA, especially if you're in-state all three years and could conceivably pull a scholarship. However, if you don't have applications in yet I think it's probably too late for next fall. I very much understand your frustrations with finding a job--I graduated last May and spent 2 months unemployed before I found a job. Still, it'd be worth it to scrape by for a year and try to raise your score into the 170s. Even if you do hit your target range right now, it's simply too late in the cycle to expect good news. Just wait until next fall, retake in June if you need to, and then get your applications out at the beginning of October and have an awesome cycle.

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby pearl_earrings » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:31 am

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Last edited by pearl_earrings on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby jrobby6 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:36 am

rayiner wrote:Emory probably won't get you biglaw in Atlanta.

If you're PTing around 171-172, you owe it to yourself to retake if you get below 170 on the real thing (which you don't even know yet, so why worry now?)

172/3.7 = $$ at MVPBDNC.


interesting. care to explain why?

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stratocophic
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby stratocophic » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:39 am

jrobby6 wrote:
rayiner wrote:Emory probably won't get you biglaw in Atlanta.

If you're PTing around 171-172, you owe it to yourself to retake if you get below 170 on the real thing (which you don't even know yet, so why worry now?)

172/3.7 = $$ at MVPBDNC.


interesting. care to explain why?

They place around 25% in Biglaw, less ITE. Thus, there is about a 75% chance that Emory won't get you Biglaw in Atlanta. Therefore, "probably won't get you Biglaw" is valid.

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby pearl_earrings » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:45 am

.
Last edited by pearl_earrings on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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scribelaw
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby scribelaw » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:49 am

In an earlier thread OP started, he complained about the unfairness of the LSAT and argued no one should be allowed to study, and included a gratuitous, strange rant about URMs.

Now he's bragging about how he'll be top 10 percent at Emory, before he's even accepted.

Nicely done, sir.

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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby flyingpanda » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:48 am

Pricer wrote:
Pricer wrote:How does the future of Emory look? Will it maintain its spot at #20 for the next decade or more? Does it have a chance of breaking into the teens, making its way to #14-19? Or does it look like there is a better chance of it falling down to #25+? My main concern with Emory is that since it has only recently been recognized as a top law school, its prestige is more likely to fade out than the legendary T14. I don't want to go into a #20 school and graduate from a #30 school.


Back to one of my main concerns, can anyone cast any light on this?

http://www.concurringopinions.com/archi ... ing_1.html
According to this, their ranking was rocky between 1997 and 2006.


This shouldn't be a concern, why are you caught up so much on the rankings? You want to work in Georgia... Emory is good for Georgia. A drop in the rankings isn't going to make all the lawyers in the area just suddenly not want to hire Emory people.

If you're aiming to work in DC, or get big law... do not bank on your ability to make top 10% at Emory. Why would you even think this? The vast majority of your peers are going to have similar LSAT, GPA combos and everybody is planning on working harder in law school than they did in UG. IF you want big law with possibilities outside Georgia, go to a t14...

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stratocophic
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Re: Emory vs. T14

Postby stratocophic » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:06 am

aznflyingpanda wrote:
Pricer wrote:
Pricer wrote:How does the future of Emory look? Will it maintain its spot at #20 for the next decade or more? Does it have a chance of breaking into the teens, making its way to #14-19? Or does it look like there is a better chance of it falling down to #25+? My main concern with Emory is that since it has only recently been recognized as a top law school, its prestige is more likely to fade out than the legendary T14. I don't want to go into a #20 school and graduate from a #30 school.


Back to one of my main concerns, can anyone cast any light on this?

http://www.concurringopinions.com/archi ... ing_1.html
According to this, their ranking was rocky between 1997 and 2006.


This shouldn't be a concern, why are you caught up so much on the rankings? You want to work in Georgia... Emory is good for Georgia. A drop in the rankings isn't going to make all the lawyers in the area just suddenly not want to hire Emory people.

If you're aiming to work in DC, or get big law... do not bank on your ability to make top 10% at Emory. Why would you even think this? The vast majority of your peers are going to have similar LSAT, GPA combos and everybody is planning on working harder in law school than they did in UG. IF you want big law with possibilities outside Georgia, go to a t14...

TITCR. Emory does well in Atlanta because ATL lawyers know/are Emory grads, not because the USNWR has them ranked 20 instead of 30. It's a regional school with no direct competition other than UGA (although other southern T20s are going to steal some of Emory's thunder come hiring time), and that's Emory's local advantage and mobility disadvantage.




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