Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

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twintipping_bumps
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Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby twintipping_bumps » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:49 pm

I've seen the lay prestige discussions around here, so I know there are some people that are sympathetic to the idea that reputation is an important consideration when deciding which name will go on your law degree.

I think Tulane is one school where its lay prestige far surpasses its ranking, both for Law and UG. Most people I know in the real world think of Tulane as a really fantastic school, yet its ranked in the 40s for Law and at 50 for UG. Do people feel the current rankings are a product of concern over New Orleans? After doing some research, I know Tulane's endowment has taken a huge hit and in the immediate aftermath there was a drop and people wanting to attend. But it now seems apps are up and also both UG and Law have reduced class sizes, which should lead to better statistics.

So the question is: what's the future of Tulane's ranking for both UG and Law? I know the reputation is great, but what of the rankings?

This person has said Tulane was once ranked as high as 11th:

http://www.studentsreview.com/viewprofi ... 1056168516

Yet here it is said the highest Tulane has been ranked is 34th:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulane_Uni ... te_note-42 (I know one shouldn't cite wikipedia but it's the only place I have found this)

Anyway, I personally, going by day to day conversations, would not be surprised if someone told me Tulane was a top 20 UG and top 25 Law. I know that's not reality, but as New Orleans rebuilds, and given the school's strong history, could it ever be that high or higher during our careers over the coming decades?

nycparalegal
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby nycparalegal » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:56 pm

So which school would Tulane bump off the top 25?

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holydonkey
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby holydonkey » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:56 pm

Depends on the city. A ton of Fortune 500 companies have left New Orleans over the past 20 years. More companies mean more money, more grad students, more legal work. If companies decide to relocate to NO, sure. If not, no.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby twintipping_bumps » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:00 pm

nycparalegal wrote:So which school would Tulane bump off the top 25?


I am thinking more in terms of a 10 to 15 year period, a gradual rise. But yes, I suppose there would have to be one school in the top 25 that would no longer be there if Tulane were to move into the top 25. I can see a few in the 20 to 25 area that most people - say if we were at a mall taking an informal poll - would think are much lower ranked than Tulane.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby twintipping_bumps » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:03 pm

holydonkey wrote:Depends on the city. A ton of Fortune 500 companies have left New Orleans over the past 20 years. More companies mean more money, more grad students, more legal work. If companies decide to relocate to NO, sure. If not, no.


Yeah, I suppose those are important points to consider. I wonder if all the cities that contain schools in the top 25 have better economies than New Orleans.

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Borhas
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby Borhas » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:04 pm

employment statistics imply that Tulane is ranked higher than they would be if rankings were based on outcomes

sluguy14
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby sluguy14 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:15 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:
holydonkey wrote:Depends on the city. A ton of Fortune 500 companies have left New Orleans over the past 20 years. More companies mean more money, more grad students, more legal work. If companies decide to relocate to NO, sure. If not, no.


Yeah, I suppose those are important points to consider. I wonder if all the cities that contain schools in the top 25 have better economies than New Orleans.


Well, WUSTL ranks in the top 20 in both law and UG and (based on firsthand experience) I can vouch that St. Louis is not exactly a vibrant economy. I imagine that having a big market to rely on would help out with the ranking, but it's not the single determining factor.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby twintipping_bumps » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:47 pm

In another thread, a person mentioned US News weights reputation as assessed by the surveys it sends as 40% of the final score. I wonder how much of a hit, if any, the difficulties the city had over the last few years provided in this area. Maybe people that in the past were inclined to give it high marks backed off slightly while wondering if the area was going to recover.

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im_blue
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:02 pm

If anything, Tulane's reputation is going to drop in the future as businesses leave NO and student quality continues to drop as it did after Katrina. They've already cut their engineering departments due to budget cuts.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby twintipping_bumps » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:43 pm

I'm not so sure student quality is continuing to drop. In her TLS interview, Dean Krinsky says last year Tulane did not take a single person from the wait list. (http://www.top-law-schools.com/susan-kr ... rview.html)

And I read somewhere that more people enrolled than were expected. Given that we should all be able to agree that schools first accept the candidates they find most attractive and then hit the wait list if more people than they expected to not accept the admissions offer don't matriculate, it would seem that last year's entering class was better than admissions had expected, and given that the program reduced its size a few years ago, one should be able to imagine that numbers will rise as New Orleans stabilizes. I have read elsewhere that things are similar with UG: class size has been reduced and numbers are good.

I have read about some restructuring going on in the University in terms of programs, departments, etc. But I am not really sure how that will affect peer reputation results for UG and Law.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby gwuorbust » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:25 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:I'm not so sure student quality is continuing to drop. In her TLS interview, Dean Krinsky says last year Tulane did not take a single person from the wait list. (http://www.top-law-schools.com/susan-kr ... rview.html)

And I read somewhere that more people enrolled than were expected. Given that we should all be able to agree that schools first accept the candidates they find most attractive and then hit the wait list if more people than they expected to not accept the admissions offer don't matriculate, it would seem that last year's entering class was better than admissions had expected, and given that the program reduced its size a few years ago, one should be able to imagine that numbers will rise as New Orleans stabilizes. I have read elsewhere that things are similar with UG: class size has been reduced and numbers are good.

I have read about some restructuring going on in the University in terms of programs, departments, etc. But I am not really sure how that will affect peer reputation results for UG and Law.


+1


Also, if you look at LSN last year there was a lot of green at 161, whereas this year not one person on LSN w/ a 161 has gotten in yet. It seems to me that because of last years yield they are being more selective, which should only help the USNWR ranking, not hurt it.

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Xnegd
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby Xnegd » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:29 pm

I hope they rise. I just met with their admission rep a couple days ago, and she was the absolute sweetest person. It made me think quite well of the school. They're currently the lowest ranked school I'm thinking of going to; however, it sounds like it'd be a great place to go.

nianlong
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby nianlong » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:21 pm

If anything, Tulane's reputation is going to drop in the future as businesses leave NO and student quality continues to drop as it did after Katrina. They've already cut their engineering departments due to budget cuts.


FYI, this is utter bullshit. By any measure, New Orleans is on the rebound. Granted, some business did have to move out immediately after the storm, but this idiot makes it sound like the city is still under water and without electricity.

This poster mention the engineering program being cut as if it happened last week. This was one of the major restructuring elements that the university had to incorporate immediately after Katrina to deal with 300 million dollars worth of damage to campus. It also had to cut some sports programs, for example, some of which are up and running again.

Tulane UG admitted its most selective classes in its history during the last 2 cycles, the president of the university is widely recognized as one of the best in the country, and the law school is also as selective as ever and has recently restructured to have smaller class sizes.

New Orleans in general is absolutely thriving. Though there are areas of the city that are still in disrepair, there are more restaurants in the city than pre-Katrina, there are lots of infrastructure projects going on right now that will only encourage business, we just elected a new mayor by large margins. And if you haven't heard, we just won the fucking super bowl!

New Orleanians, including the students, have a pride in their city unlike anything I've ever seen. To speak of the gloom and doom of New Orleans as if things haven't changed since 2005 is a complete joke.

As far as rankings go, who knows what will happen. But in my experience, employers are very impressed with Tulane and I substantially credit the school's resources and reputation in helping me secure a summer job that I wouldn't trade for anything. (PM for details).

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macatak911
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby macatak911 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:50 pm

nianlong wrote:
If anything, Tulane's reputation is going to drop in the future as businesses leave NO and student quality continues to drop as it did after Katrina. They've already cut their engineering departments due to budget cuts.


FYI, this is utter bullshit. By any measure, New Orleans is on the rebound. Granted, some business did have to move out immediately after the storm, but this idiot makes it sound like the city is still under water and without electricity.

This poster mention the engineering program being cut as if it happened last week. This was one of the major restructuring elements that the university had to incorporate immediately after Katrina to deal with 300 million dollars worth of damage to campus. It also had to cut some sports programs, for example, some of which are up and running again.

Tulane UG admitted its most selective classes in its history during the last 2 cycles, the president of the university is widely recognized as one of the best in the country, and the law school is also as selective as ever and has recently restructured to have smaller class sizes.

New Orleans in general is absolutely thriving. Though there are areas of the city that are still in disrepair, there are more restaurants in the city than pre-Katrina, there are lots of infrastructure projects going on right now that will only encourage business, we just elected a new mayor by large margins. And if you haven't heard, we just won the fucking super bowl!

New Orleanians, including the students, have a pride in their city unlike anything I've ever seen. To speak of the gloom and doom of New Orleans as if things haven't changed since 2005 is a complete joke.

As far as rankings go, who knows what will happen. But in my experience, employers are very impressed with Tulane and I substantially credit the school's resources and reputation in helping me secure a summer job that I wouldn't trade for anything. (PM for details).


+1

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Joga Bonito
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby Joga Bonito » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:06 pm

I think Tulane is a great school, but in terms of prestige, I think the current perceptions dicussed in this thread reflect past perceptions of prestige more than current or future. Tulane is probably in decline or staying static both in rankings and lay prestige (probably static). Which would explain why it was ranked 32 but now 50 or whatever. It should not be in the T25 but maybe ranked higher than 50 the mid 30's or 40's for UG and the same for law school sounds right to me.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:07 pm

nycparalegal wrote:So which school would Tulane bump off the top 25?


Indiana or Minnesota :wink:

Borhas wrote:employment statistics imply that Tulane is ranked higher than they would be if rankings were based on outcomes


Based off of what, the 2009 NLJ stats? Not everyone wants to work at a NLJ firm. Although I will concede that I'm a 1L at Tulane and I have an interview with one next week.

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Borhas
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby Borhas » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:14 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
nycparalegal wrote:So which school would Tulane bump off the top 25?


Indiana or Minnesota :wink:

Borhas wrote:employment statistics imply that Tulane is ranked higher than they would be if rankings were based on outcomes


Based off of what, the 2009 NLJ stats? Not everyone wants to work at a NLJ firm. Although I will concede that I'm a 1L at Tulane and I have an interview with one next week.


Yup, that's what I was referring to. While it's true that that sort of career isn't desirable for everybody, is there any reason to believe that Tulane students desire it less than other schools' students?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:31 pm

Borhas wrote:Yup, that's what I was referring to. While it's true that that sort of career isn't desirable for everybody, is there any reason to believe that Tulane students desire it less than other schools' students?


No one can answer that (no one knows what people think aside from what people claim to think).

And that question, along with a few others, is why NLJ 250 placement isn't included in any form of "rankings."

I will say, in my personal opinion, that the NLJ should be spread to top 400 or 500 because it is silly to draw a distinction between a firm with 90 attorneys or one with 120.

I mean that, true in major markets (CA, IL, NY, DC, TX, GA, FL - basically), some students will pursue the largest because they assume they are better (better in this sense is not quanitifable).

In not so major markets especially, would a student really see a difference if he/she worked at a "mid-law (apparently)" firm with a 90 lawyer office in that market or a "big law" firm with an office with only 30 lawyers in that market? Seriously though, no one can say beyond any perceived form of prestige that the student would be better off at the "big law" firm there. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the "big law" firms have relatively small offices in various major markets as well (and that question would be posed in that situation as well).

I'm not anti NLJ250 - as previously stated I'm considering working for one over the summer. Analyzing the NLJ 250 is not a way to really compare schools - not because the data is good or bad - but because different students take different things into account when determining where to work at graduation. A lot of the T14 schools heavily stress big firm work because it makes them look good when the stats come out (they don't want to look "inferior" to their "peers"). However if they were not "ranked" in NLJ250 placement, they would likely send a hell of a lot less people to them.
Last edited by Aberzombie1892 on Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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whitman
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby whitman » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:47 pm

Tulane still has much better lay prestige than its ranking would indicate. It's ranked with schools like University if Tennessee, which seems fairly absurd. I am speaking only from public perception. Maybe it's not very well regarded in the legal community, but that would be surprising to this clueless 0L. Why is it not ranked in the 30s exactly? It seems like it should be up there with the low 30s schools.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby twintipping_bumps » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:17 pm

If you were in a position where you had to determine which school had a brighter future, rankings-wise: Tulane or Wake Forest, which would you choose? I would think Tulane, but many people I talk to seem to like Wake, perhaps b/c of sports. Wake Law is 5 spots up right now, but that small distance spans some serious schools, and the UG is considerably higher than Tulane's.

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missvik218
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby missvik218 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:34 pm

Dammit I love Tulane!!! I'm wearing Tulane sweatpants AND a Tulane sweatshirt AS I TYPE :mrgreen: I'd love to stay and troll but I need to go eat and watch American Idol.

Whoever said student quality at Tulane has dropped since the storm has no idea what they're talking about.

ROLL WAVE!

Bulls
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby Bulls » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:39 pm

Depends on the new dean too. I visited last week and it sounded like there has been some turnover at that position.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby twintipping_bumps » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:45 pm

They were talking about the New Dean at the event I attended in Boston. It was made to sound that the release of the information in regards to who the New Dean will be will have a positive effect on how Tulane is perceived by the Law Community and therefor enhance the school's reputation.

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PDaddy
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby PDaddy » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:16 am

I have a very nice scholly to Tulane Law, and, based on what I am hearing from people who really know what the schools are about (older lawyers who have been around and worked with and against Tulane grads, profs, Pre-law advisors, LSAT instructors, etc), Tulane has mad juice. What southern law school not ranked ostensibly in the top-20 has the reach or employment prospects Tulane has? I saw some hard data showing that Tulane beat nearly every sub #20 school in either Vault 100 or NLJ 100 employment (not sure). And we know the profs are highly thought of. :? I'm confused as to why it isn't at least 10-15 spots higher.

UG? I think Tulane, Illinois, UW-Seattle, North Carolina, and UC-Davis should be ranked much higher. USNWR favors Private, N.E., Urban.
Last edited by PDaddy on Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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superflush
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Re: Tulane's Future Ranking (Both Law & UG)

Postby superflush » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:25 am

twintipping_bumps wrote:Yet here it is said the highest Tulane has been ranked is 34th:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulane_Uni ... te_note-42 (I know one shouldn't cite wikipedia but it's the only place I have found this)


Um, you could have just cited the article than was cited in Wikipedia: http://tulane.edu/news/releases/archive ... ane_up.cfm




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