Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

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fedexmalcom
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fedexmalcom » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:22 pm

OCI is important especially under such economy. I care most about whether a law school could face its worsening situation with honesty and diligence. Hiding behind beautiful records of past graduates is not a good signal. I am paying serious attention to Notre Dame since it is my top option available. So far no sign of releasing employment data of 2010.

Casey2889
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Casey2889 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:48 pm

anyone else find it interesting that Stanford (77%) is so much higher than HLS (65%), and even significantly higher than Yale (72%)?

i didn't know there was a perceived "difference" between the schools until i began to apply this year and read TLS. given the way YLS is discussed here, i would have expected it to be far-and-away 1st and Stanford/Harvard to be near equal 2nds. odd/redeeming reality check.

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bk1
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby bk1 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:52 pm

Casey2889 wrote:anyone else find it interesting that Stanford (77%) is so much higher than HLS (65%), and even significantly higher than Yale (72%)?

i didn't know there was a perceived "difference" between the schools until i began to apply this year and read TLS. given the way YLS is discussed here, i would have expected it to be far-and-away 1st and Stanford/Harvard to be near equal 2nds. odd/redeeming reality check.


The differences between HYS are probably due to differences in self-selection more than differences in actual ability to place into NLJ250 and Art III.

rundoxierun
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby rundoxierun » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:57 pm

Casey2889 wrote:anyone else find it interesting that Stanford (77%) is so much higher than HLS (65%), and even significantly higher than Yale (72%)?

i didn't know there was a perceived "difference" between the schools until i began to apply this year and read TLS. given the way YLS is discussed here, i would have expected it to be far-and-away 1st and Stanford/Harvard to be near equal 2nds. odd/redeeming reality check.


TLS is vastly exaggerated. In real life you will never hear anyone separate the 3 schools. Each has their own thing that they are "known" for but it really isnt because of significant opportunity differences.

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bk1
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby bk1 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:01 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
Casey2889 wrote:anyone else find it interesting that Stanford (77%) is so much higher than HLS (65%), and even significantly higher than Yale (72%)?

i didn't know there was a perceived "difference" between the schools until i began to apply this year and read TLS. given the way YLS is discussed here, i would have expected it to be far-and-away 1st and Stanford/Harvard to be near equal 2nds. odd/redeeming reality check.


TLS is vastly exaggerated. In real life you will never hear anyone separate the 3 schools. Each has their own thing that they are "known" for but it really isnt because of significant opportunity differences.


To be honest, I can't imagine that self-selection really is the primary reason why Yale dominates clerkships. I lean towards the belief that there is a difference there.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:40 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:I don't recall if the NLJ number accounts for academia, but if it does not, that may account for YLS not being as high as people tend to think it "should be."

I don't think they do, but I believe the numbers are only for what people do immediately out of law school, and I was under the impression that, even from Yale, people tend to clerk/work for at least a couple years first?

Regardless, I wouldn't use these numbers to draw too find a distinction, considering they combine one graduating class's NLJ statistics (2009) with another's clerkship statistics (2008). Using it for broad strokes is fine, but calling out a distinction of a few points is probably looking at something that got lost in that computation.

Informative
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Informative » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:34 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:I don't recall if the NLJ number accounts for academia, but if it does not, that may account for YLS not being as high as people tend to think it "should be."


Yale places a significant number of graduates into academia.

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AreJay711
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:54 pm

Informative wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:I don't recall if the NLJ number accounts for academia, but if it does not, that may account for YLS not being as high as people tend to think it "should be."


Yale places a significant number of graduates into academia.

I doubt it is 5% of the class every year to match them up with Stanford. It is more likely that more Yale people do PI or gov't stuff.

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fatduck
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fatduck » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:56 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
Informative wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:I don't recall if the NLJ number accounts for academia, but if it does not, that may account for YLS not being as high as people tend to think it "should be."


Yale places a significant number of graduates into academia.

I doubt it is 5% of the class every year to match them up with Stanford. It is more likely that more Yale people do PI or gov't stuff.


or, more of yale's class of 2009 took clerkships than 2008

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AreJay711
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:58 pm

fatduck wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
Informative wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:I don't recall if the NLJ number accounts for academia, but if it does not, that may account for YLS not being as high as people tend to think it "should be."


Yale places a significant number of graduates into academia.

I doubt it is 5% of the class every year to match them up with Stanford. It is more likely that more Yale people do PI or gov't stuff.


or, more of yale's class of 2009 took clerkships than 2008

True. I forgot the data is from 2 different years.

twistedwrister
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby twistedwrister » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:39 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
fatduck wrote:
AreJay711 wrote:
Informative wrote:Yale places a significant number of graduates into academia.

I doubt it is 5% of the class every year to match them up with Stanford. It is more likely that more Yale people do PI or gov't stuff.


or, more of yale's class of 2009 took clerkships than 2008

True. I forgot the data is from 2 different years.


Yale's employment data from 2007-2009: http://www.law.yale.edu/studentlife/cdoprospectivestudentstats.htm

2007: 41% clerkships, 3.2% academia
2008: 35% clerkships, 2.6% academia
2009: 30% clerkships, 0.5% academia

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Sogui
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Sogui » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:14 am

Out of curiosity, why are firms and clerkships being summed in the OP? It seems much more logical just to list the two separately and maybe try to get a handle on academia numbers too.

As it stands people might be interested in one or the other, but I can't imagine a sum of the two would provide anything but a confusing entanglement of two useful piece of data.

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RVP11
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:18 am

Sogui wrote:Out of curiosity, why are firms and clerkships being summed in the OP? It seems much more logical just to list the two separately and maybe try to get a handle on academia numbers too.

As it stands people might be interested in one or the other, but I can't imagine a sum of the two would provide anything but a confusing entanglement of two useful piece of data.


This is kind of a weird gripe when the OP cites and links his sources for both clerkships and firm jobs.

Sandro
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Sandro » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:22 am

So the new numbers come out tomorrow..... right?

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Sogui
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Sogui » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:27 am

RVP11 wrote:
Sogui wrote:Out of curiosity, why are firms and clerkships being summed in the OP? It seems much more logical just to list the two separately and maybe try to get a handle on academia numbers too.

As it stands people might be interested in one or the other, but I can't imagine a sum of the two would provide anything but a confusing entanglement of two useful piece of data.


This is kind of a weird gripe when the OP cites and links his sources for both clerkships and firm jobs.


True, but why fix what isn't broken? There's a reason those kinds of lists are kept separate. This just seems like a misleading attempt at gauging a school effectiveness at placing in certain de facto prestigious positions, and the data linked separately has much more significance than any sum of the two could possibly provide. Not a big deal, I'm just OCD about the way data gets compiled and presented

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fatduck
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fatduck » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:07 pm

Sogui wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
Sogui wrote:Out of curiosity, why are firms and clerkships being summed in the OP? It seems much more logical just to list the two separately and maybe try to get a handle on academia numbers too.

As it stands people might be interested in one or the other, but I can't imagine a sum of the two would provide anything but a confusing entanglement of two useful piece of data.


This is kind of a weird gripe when the OP cites and links his sources for both clerkships and firm jobs.


True, but why fix what isn't broken? There's a reason those kinds of lists are kept separate. This just seems like a misleading attempt at gauging a school effectiveness at placing in certain de facto prestigious positions, and the data linked separately has much more significance than any sum of the two could possibly provide. Not a big deal, I'm just OCD about the way data gets compiled and presented


I think it would be better if both numbers were listed (and then perhaps a sum to the right). The reason they're summed is that otherwise hordes of posters would complain "YALE #8? LOL THESE STATS R DUM"

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Law Sauce
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Law Sauce » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:08 pm

Sogui wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
Sogui wrote:Out of curiosity, why are firms and clerkships being summed in the OP? It seems much more logical just to list the two separately and maybe try to get a handle on academia numbers too.

As it stands people might be interested in one or the other, but I can't imagine a sum of the two would provide anything but a confusing entanglement of two useful piece of data.


This is kind of a weird gripe when the OP cites and links his sources for both clerkships and firm jobs.


True, but why fix what isn't broken? There's a reason those kinds of lists are kept separate. This just seems like a misleading attempt at gauging a school effectiveness at placing in certain de facto prestigious positions, and the data linked separately has much more significance than any sum of the two could possibly provide. Not a big deal, I'm just OCD about the way data gets compiled and presented


It is a little misleading since the data is from two different years. The reason, Im pretty sure, is so that people can say... "about this percent of the class got what they wanted" whether that be a clerkship or big firm etc. Its not great but i think thats the idea

Sandro
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Sandro » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:15 pm

Feb 22nd.... I poked around the site from where the article came from last year, didnt see anything :oops:

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The Brainalist
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:44 pm

twistedwrister wrote:Yale's employment data from 2007-2009: http://www.law.yale.edu/studentlife/cdoprospectivestudentstats.htm

2007: 41% clerkships, 3.2% academia
2008: 35% clerkships, 2.6% academia
2009: 30% clerkships, 0.5% academia



This kind of variance from year to year really highlights how bad it is to combine two different years of data as the OP did. This thread needs to die, and someone (not me) needs to do another thread using only info from the same years.

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RVP11
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:24 pm

The Brainalist wrote:
twistedwrister wrote:Yale's employment data from 2007-2009: http://www.law.yale.edu/studentlife/cdoprospectivestudentstats.htm

2007: 41% clerkships, 3.2% academia
2008: 35% clerkships, 2.6% academia
2009: 30% clerkships, 0.5% academia



This kind of variance from year to year really highlights how bad it is to combine two different years of data as the OP did. This thread needs to die, and someone (not me) needs to do another thread using only info from the same years.


Variance from year to year is exactly why you combine stats from different years.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby BeenDidThat » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:39 pm

Sogui wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
Sogui wrote:Out of curiosity, why are firms and clerkships being summed in the OP? It seems much more logical just to list the two separately and maybe try to get a handle on academia numbers too.

As it stands people might be interested in one or the other, but I can't imagine a sum of the two would provide anything but a confusing entanglement of two useful piece of data.


This is kind of a weird gripe when the OP cites and links his sources for both clerkships and firm jobs.


True, but why fix what isn't broken? There's a reason those kinds of lists are kept separate. This just seems like a misleading attempt at gauging a school effectiveness at placing in certain de facto prestigious positions, and the data linked separately has much more significance than any sum of the two could possibly provide. Not a big deal, I'm just OCD about the way data gets compiled and presented


Keep working on this tic.

columbia86
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby columbia86 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:40 pm

In this survey W&L outperformed its current USNWR ranking, is this indicative of its current NLJ250/Federal Clerkship placement?

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Grizz
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Grizz » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:43 pm

columbia86 wrote:In this survey W&L outperformed its current USNWR ranking, is this indicative of its current NLJ250/Federal Clerkship placement?


No. Probably much worse.

columbia86
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby columbia86 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:45 pm

rad law wrote:
columbia86 wrote:In this survey W&L outperformed its current USNWR ranking, is this indicative of its current NLJ250/Federal Clerkship placement?


No. Probably much worse.


Explain.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:46 pm

columbia86 wrote:
rad law wrote:
columbia86 wrote:In this survey W&L outperformed its current USNWR ranking, is this indicative of its current NLJ250/Federal Clerkship placement?


No. Probably much worse.


Explain.


Every school is much worse?




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