Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:11 am

Fark-o-vision wrote:From my experience, in Arkansas and Louisiana, the South will take the best southern school (even if it's ranked 99th) over anyone else. I know, the global economy, etc. etc. etc. But don't hold your breath. Expect the market in The South, especially among those companies actually owned and managed from The South, to be the exclusive territory of Southern schools. They wouldn't take a Standford grad if they crawled through glass for them.

Blatant anti-Stanford (notice correct spelling) trolling.

270910
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 270910 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:11 am

Borhas wrote:so can some adventurous young troll come up with a list including NLJ250+Clerkships+Government jobs?


It would be very hard to do that meaningfully, because you'll see '10%' at Podunk which is sending 10% into the public defender's office + local DA, and 10% from yale who are getting DoJ honors. Obviously it's not QUITE that cut and dry, but it would be really hard to separate the 'signal' (PRESTIGIOUS BIGGOV JOBS) from the 'noise' (everything else).

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ShibaDan
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby ShibaDan » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:33 am

disco_barred wrote:
Borhas wrote:so can some adventurous young troll come up with a list including NLJ250+Clerkships+Government jobs?


It would be very hard to do that meaningfully, because you'll see '10%' at Podunk which is sending 10% into the public defender's office + local DA, and 10% from yale who are getting DoJ honors. Obviously it's not QUITE that cut and dry, but it would be really hard to separate the 'signal' (PRESTIGIOUS BIGGOV JOBS) from the 'noise' (everything else).


Yeah, that's what I thought too. It's too tough to classify what percent get prestigious gov. work.

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beef wellington
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby beef wellington » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:00 am

def2104 wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Borhas wrote:so can some adventurous young troll come up with a list including NLJ250+Clerkships+Government jobs?


It would be very hard to do that meaningfully, because you'll see '10%' at Podunk which is sending 10% into the public defender's office + local DA, and 10% from yale who are getting DoJ honors. Obviously it's not QUITE that cut and dry, but it would be really hard to separate the 'signal' (PRESTIGIOUS BIGGOV JOBS) from the 'noise' (everything else).


Yeah, that's what I thought too. It's too tough to classify what percent get prestigious gov. work.

I suggested this a few pages ago, but such an enterprising young troll could perhaps use fellowships as a proxy for prestigious PI.

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Borhas
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Borhas » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:47 am

who cares about all this prestige hullabaloo, ITE it's all about jobs, jobs, jobs

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ShibaDan
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby ShibaDan » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:28 am

Borhas wrote:who cares about all this prestige hullabaloo, ITE it's all about jobs, jobs, jobs


Soooo part time legal assistants count? Then we run into the same problems as the USNews self reported employment rates. Those include such gems as burger flippers at Mickey D's. (God, I hope that no one actually has to do that after law school thought)

miamiman
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby miamiman » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:38 am

Isn't it generally agreed upon, with respect to the prestige associated with the organization that

In 'n out >> bk > checkers > sonic > mcdonalds


Obviously, the jobs at in 'n out are a bit harder to get ite, and there is some trading down going on, but that's roughlt accurate I think

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ShibaDan
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby ShibaDan » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:42 am

miamiman wrote:Isn't it generally agreed upon, with respect to the prestige associated with the organization that

In 'n out >> bk > checkers > sonic > mcdonalds


Obviously, the jobs at in 'n out are a bit harder to get ite, and there is some trading down going on, but that's roughlt accurate I think

:lol: What about Duchess and Hardees...I mean they're regional so who knows they may only take from local feeder schools. However, I must think Wendy's is up there, with those nuggets and frostys...mmm

miamiman
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby miamiman » Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:47 am

Surprisingly, wendys did not recruit this year. But your right, the hardees jobs went to the strong regional schools and the kids at top nationals that struck out with the v10 burger joints

keg411
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby keg411 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:53 am

Class '09 - NYC got hit the hardest. For the Class of '10, the other markets were the ones that had more no-offers than NY. My sister had a SA in NYC and most of her NY SA's got offers, whereas the Chicago and Philly offer-rate really plummeted. Remember '10 went through OCI prior to the crash, so many had jobs and they suffered more no-offers than '09 students who suffered more deferred start dates. '11 was different because firms were so backlogged with deferrals from '09 and '10 that hiring was cut back to an extreme and some firms even canceled their programs.

The only question is whether or not '11 was an anomaly or is more of what is to be expected.

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Borhas
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Borhas » Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:34 pm

def2104 wrote:
Borhas wrote:who cares about all this prestige hullabaloo, ITE it's all about jobs, jobs, jobs


Soooo part time legal assistants count? Then we run into the same problems as the USNews self reported employment rates. Those include such gems as burger flippers at Mickey D's. (God, I hope that no one actually has to do that after law school thought)


No, but local DA would

that's why I was wondering what government job prospects were. Government jobs are all atleast somewhat "prestigious" but if not that at the very least they usually qualify for LRAP purposes... which is pretty cool.

Can't really say that about legal assitant

iwantT14
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby iwantT14 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:28 am

idk if this has been addressed yet but how are the numbers for lower tier 1 schools so high? cardozo at 20.1% nlj 250 placement? temple at 16.2%? wake forest at 20%? i know the data is 2 yrs behind, but i didnt know these schools were placing this high even in the boom years. and how is rutgers-newark not on this list? i always thought it placed even with cardozo and better than temple.

irishman86
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby irishman86 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:22 pm

iwantT14 wrote:idk if this has been addressed yet but how are the numbers for lower tier 1 schools so high? cardozo at 20.1% nlj 250 placement? temple at 16.2%? wake forest at 20%? i know the data is 2 yrs behind, but i didnt know these schools were placing this high even in the boom years. and how is rutgers-newark not on this list? i always thought it placed even with cardozo and better than temple.


Alumni loyalty? However, I bet ITE that those schools are placing < 5%.

Rory1987
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Rory1987 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:35 am

iwantT14 wrote:idk if this has been addressed yet but how are the numbers for lower tier 1 schools so high? cardozo at 20.1% nlj 250 placement? temple at 16.2%? wake forest at 20%? i know the data is 2 yrs behind, but i didnt know these schools were placing this high even in the boom years. and how is rutgers-newark not on this list? i always thought it placed even with cardozo and better than temple.


Dozo is in a massive legal market. Temple OWNS it's market (which is a fairly nice size of its own) since most Penn grads head up to NYC or down to DC. Even Nova plays second fiddle to Temple in Philly, and Rutgers, Widener, and Drexel can't compete. Look at the firms there and who works there. The alumni thing must be true. Not sure about Wake, though.

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:10 pm

keg411 wrote:Class '09 - NYC got hit the hardest. For the Class of '10, the other markets were the ones that had more no-offers than NY. My sister had a SA in NYC and most of her NY SA's got offers, whereas the Chicago and Philly offer-rate really plummeted. Remember '10 went through OCI prior to the crash, so many had jobs and they suffered more no-offers than '09 students who suffered more deferred start dates. '11 was different because firms were so backlogged with deferrals from '09 and '10 that hiring was cut back to an extreme and some firms even canceled their programs.

The only question is whether or not '11 was an anomaly or is more of what is to be expected.


From what I've read on abovethelaw, etc. it seems like this is probably more to be expected. I'm just curious as to what markets are the best to bid on at OCI now, considering that it seems like no offers are coming at comparable rates every primary market. From what I've heard about this most recent OCI though, NYC is still the easiest market to get. (My friend sub-median at MVP got callbacks in NYC this past OCI with no significant WE but was locked out elsewhere. ) I don't know if that means it is "safer" but it still has by far the most jobs out of any primary and I think that NYC will probably recover the quickest out of any primary.

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RVP11
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:17 pm

NYC will continue to be easier than the other major markets, most likely.

Fortissimo, why worry about no-offers? Firms aren't out to no-offer people - it's bad for them, too. Unless the economy nosedives between fall 2010 and fall 2011, the class of 2012 shouldn't have to fear no-offers.

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rayiner
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby rayiner » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:41 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:NYC will continue to be easier than the other major markets, most likely.

Fortissimo, why worry about no-offers? Firms aren't out to no-offer people - it's bad for them, too. Unless the economy nosedives between fall 2010 and fall 2011, the class of 2012 shouldn't have to fear no-offers.


Yeah, firms have no incentive to no-offer, and only did so because their situation changed. I mean, why throw away $30k on an SA you have no intention of hiring?

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TTT-LS
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby TTT-LS » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:53 pm

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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doyleoil
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby doyleoil » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:57 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Just as an update to earlier data, NU placed at least 27 in Art. III clerkships (i.e., fed district & COA, excluding magistrates/BK) in the 2009-10 application cycle. That amounts to about 10% of the graduating class.


27 3L's? or does this include alums?

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observationalist
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby observationalist » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:17 pm

TTT-LS wrote:Just as an update to earlier data, NU placed at least 27 in Art. III clerkships (i.e., fed district & COA, excluding magistrates/BK) in the 2009-10 application cycle. That amounts to about 10% of the graduating class.


Vanderbilt landed 28 Art. III clerkships for the 2009-2010 application cycle, which is about 14% of the graduating class. Granted that includes people like an '05 grad who's clerking for J. Roberts, so fewer than 28 are 3Ls, but we're probably still about 10%.

TTT-LS, any idea how many of the 27 are currently 3Ls? The only data I have right now is that we had 43 total clerkship placements (including state/magistrates), of which 35 are 3Ls. That puts our Class of 2010 at an all-time high for the total clerking wedge (around 18% of the class).

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Lermontov
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Lermontov » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:15 pm

tag

hooty86
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby hooty86 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:27 pm

How depressing...

Informative
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Informative » Thu May 06, 2010 12:16 pm

This should be a sticky.

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The Invisible Man
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby The Invisible Man » Thu May 06, 2010 12:20 pm

dumb question (i know!): are the percentages the number of students in the graduating classes that received clerkship positions compared to the entire class or the cut-offs for clerkships?

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The Invisible Man
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby The Invisible Man » Thu May 06, 2010 12:34 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
The Invisible Man wrote:dumb question (i know!): are the percentages the number of students in the graduating classes that received clerkship positions compared to the entire class or the cut-offs for clerkships?

Neither, actually. They are the number of graduates from said school who are currently serving in Article III Clerkships. Some of those graduates are immediate graduates (meaning they are graduating in 2009 and clerking in 2009) while others are moving on to a second clerkship after previously graduating (e.g. graduated in 2008, clerked with local judge in 2008, clerking with federal judge in 2009).

The stat is relatively useful in terms of "how many graduates of ____ end up with Article III clerkships?" but is pretty misleading about the percentage of a graduating class who ends up in Article III clerkships.



Thanks, Nightrunner!




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