Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

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observationalist
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby observationalist » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:15 am

Kronk wrote:
showNprove wrote:school with top-5 placement


You're as bad as observationalist.

HONESTLY--which of the following are you going to kick out?

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Columbia.

Your move.


Don't know who you are, but please leave me out of this. I never said my school was anything other than it is. As far as stats go, I've been telling people for quite some time that the Class of '09 was our best year, so it's good to see that the NLJ stats put them in context. However, people really need 2L firm placement data on the Class of 2010 and 2011 to really see which schools are still holding up right now. Most of the folks in this thread seem to get that, but to reiterate: the new NLJ list, the upcoming NALP stats, and the USNews rank are all basing their tools on outdated information that's not very useful for determining which law school is adapting the best to the market. Every law school knows how the '10 and '11 classes are doing... and some are taking a larger beating than others. Among peers, the two best indicators IMO are whether they have relatively large classes and whether they feed primarily into a single market. In both cases, the school is likely to do worse as the job market continues retracting. This partly explains why Cornell and GULC are breaking off, and why Vandy (at least for one year) happened to pull ahead.

But to have a fair sense of whether I'm right on this we really need more current information on how all three schools are faring. Schools may be reluctant to disclose information on how bad it's getting but that doesn't excuse people from trying to bargain with their acceptance letters. In a few months we will hopefully make good on our promise of contacting the law schools, but in the meantime it's not that difficult to do on your own. Current students are also free to bug their schools for information... it's worked for us, though admittedly the response may have been a lot different had our placement stats for previous years looked worse than commonly believed, rather than better.

Troll away, young adventurous 0Ls.

09042014
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:18 am

observationalist wrote:
Troll away, young adventurous 0Ls.


Have you ever been told you look like Adam Carolla? Random comment I know, sorry.

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observationalist
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby observationalist » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:22 am

Desert Fox wrote:
observationalist wrote:
Troll away, young adventurous 0Ls.


Have you ever been told you look like Adam Carolla? Random comment I know, sorry.


Nope. On TLS, I have so far heard Ari Gold a few times though. Not sure which is worse??? I've also been told by Vandy 1Ls that IRL I do not resemble my selftar, but all that means is they've never seen me out singing karaoke at 3am.

09042014
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:25 am

observationalist wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
observationalist wrote:
Troll away, young adventurous 0Ls.


Have you ever been told you look like Adam Carolla? Random comment I know, sorry.


Nope. On TLS, I have so far heard Ari Gold a few times though. Not sure which is worse??? I've also been told by Vandy 1Ls that IRL I do not resemble my selftar, but all that means is they've never seen me out singing karaoke at 3am.


Ari Gold is a complement. I think your drunk squinty eyes are throwing me off.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:28 am

Ari Gold is such a compliment.

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ravens20
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby ravens20 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:17 am

Desert Fox wrote:Here is 2008, Yale has an unknown NLJ 250 so it is omitted.

school nlj clerk Total

SLS 56.3 23 79.3
CLS 70.5 8.6 79.1
Penn 67.7 10.9 78.6
Chi 68.6 10 78.6
HLS 57.5 18.1 75.6
Cornell62 10.9 72.9
NYU 65.4 7.3 72.7
Duke 61.8 10.9 72.7
UCB 62.6 8.1 70.7
NU 62.9 6.8 69.7
UVA 57.2 12.4 69.6
Umich 55 13.9 68.9
GULC 49 5.6 54.6
Vandy44.6 7.9 52.5
Fordham43.75.9 49.6
BC 45.8 3.4 49.2
GW 43.5 4.9 48.4
UCLA 42.4 6 48.4
BU 41.2 1 42.2

Holy Shit UVA and Mich suck!>!!>!


:lol:

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:34 am

stratocophic wrote:
AngryAvocado wrote:
jmaan wrote:i like this list the most.....i tried to give it its own thread but nobody really bit....

"As for the methodology of our list, we considered and weighted three criteria for each school: U.S. News & World Report (20%), National Law Journal Go-To ranks (40%) and Super Lawyer ranks (40%). Because we wanted the list to represent which schools are best for lawyers who want to have significant standing in their respective field or within the industry, we weighted U.S. News less than the other two factors, as it attempts to rank the quality of education rather than pure post-grad employability."

Col
H
M
V
N
B
Chi
S
N
G

http://www.businessinsider.com/best-law ... ots-2010-2


:lol: :lol:

Biased toward larger class sizes much?


It's because the Super Lawyers thing goes by total numbers instead of percentages. +1 LSAT point!


hmmm, so why is Georgetown at the bottom?

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:16 am

fortissimo wrote:hmmm, so why is Georgetown at the bottom?


Because it's the worst school in the T20.

hth

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:54 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
fortissimo wrote:hmmm, so why is Georgetown at the bottom?


Because it's the worst school in the T20.

hth


titmfcr

irishman86
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby irishman86 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:23 pm

miamiman wrote:i heard c/o 2011 may be better than 2010.


From whom? Pretty much everyone has told me it's gotten a lot worse.

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:26 am

Nightrunner wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
Not if the data is wrong. Then there is no evidence of this.

I love how all the data are 'wrong.' It isn't like we're assessing this information using fucking library size: these are the actual data for NLJ250 firm hiring in 2009, and Article III clerkships in 2008 (the most recent data available). If you want to say that these are imperfect, I'm totally on board. To throw everything out the window and bury our heads because one is from one year and another is from another year (when both are the most recent data available in their respective sets) is just idiotic.


It's "wrong" because people are mad NYU got owned.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:12 pm

fortissimo wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
Not if the data is wrong. Then there is no evidence of this.

I love how all the data are 'wrong.' It isn't like we're assessing this information using fucking library size: these are the actual data for NLJ250 firm hiring in 2009, and Article III clerkships in 2008 (the most recent data available). If you want to say that these are imperfect, I'm totally on board. To throw everything out the window and bury our heads because one is from one year and another is from another year (when both are the most recent data available in their respective sets) is just idiotic.


It's "wrong" because people are mad NYU got owned.


Yeah. Because I care about a school that I'm not attending getting beat out by other schools I am not attending.

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:18 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
Not if the data is wrong. Then there is no evidence of this.

I love how all the data are 'wrong.' It isn't like we're assessing this information using fucking library size: these are the actual data for NLJ250 firm hiring in 2009, and Article III clerkships in 2008 (the most recent data available). If you want to say that these are imperfect, I'm totally on board. To throw everything out the window and bury our heads because one is from one year and another is from another year (when both are the most recent data available in their respective sets) is just idiotic.


It's "wrong" because people are mad NYU got owned.


Yeah. Because I care about a school that I'm not attending getting beat out by other schools I am not attending.


Apparently enough to complain about it in this thread.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:21 pm

fortissimo wrote:Apparently enough to complain about it in this thread.


Find one post where I complained about NYU being beat out by Mich and UVA or whoever else you want. ONE post.

I don't care at all about who ends up where on this list. My point is that the statistics being posted are wrong and should not be used in the way they are. That's all I have ever posted about. I could care less about how the schools themselves do in these rankings.

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:28 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Apparently enough to complain about it in this thread.


Find one post where I complained about NYU being beat out by Mich and UVA or whoever else you want. ONE post.

I don't care at all about who ends up where on this list. My point is that the statistics being posted are wrong and should not be used in the way they are. That's all I have ever posted about. I could care less about how the schools themselves do in these rankings.


Because the clerkship data is from 2008? I'd say remove the clerkship data and just leave the 2009 biglaw stats, except there are A LOT of imbeciles who think that the biglaw stats alone means that almost every t-14 fares better in biglaw than Yale. This is a better gauge for those people.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:30 pm

fortissimo wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Apparently enough to complain about it in this thread.


Find one post where I complained about NYU being beat out by Mich and UVA or whoever else you want. ONE post.

I don't care at all about who ends up where on this list. My point is that the statistics being posted are wrong and should not be used in the way they are. That's all I have ever posted about. I could care less about how the schools themselves do in these rankings.


Because the clerkship data is from 2008? I'd say remove the clerkship data and just leave the 2009 biglaw stats, except there are A LOT of imbeciles who think that the biglaw stats alone means that almost every t-14 fares better in biglaw than Yale. This is a better gauge for those people.


Anyone that dumb won't have to worry about it.

hth

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:31 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Apparently enough to complain about it in this thread.


Find one post where I complained about NYU being beat out by Mich and UVA or whoever else you want. ONE post.

I don't care at all about who ends up where on this list. My point is that the statistics being posted are wrong and should not be used in the way they are. That's all I have ever posted about. I could care less about how the schools themselves do in these rankings.


Because the clerkship data is from 2008? I'd say remove the clerkship data and just leave the 2009 biglaw stats, except there are A LOT of imbeciles who think that the biglaw stats alone means that almost every t-14 fares better in biglaw than Yale. This is a better gauge for those people.


Anyone that dumb won't have to worry about it.

hth


You'd be surprised by some of the questions in these threads posted by t-14 admits. Remember that most people applying to law school majored in a liberal art and many haven't taken any math beyond remedial algebra.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:32 pm

fortissimo wrote:Because the clerkship data is from 2008? I'd say remove the clerkship data and just leave the 2009 biglaw stats, except there are A LOT of imbeciles who think that the biglaw stats alone means that almost every t-14 fares better in biglaw than Yale. This is a better gauge for those people.


I read this whole paragraph twice and I can't find anywhere that you have shown me where I've complained about NYU's ranking.

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:34 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Because the clerkship data is from 2008? I'd say remove the clerkship data and just leave the 2009 biglaw stats, except there are A LOT of imbeciles who think that the biglaw stats alone means that almost every t-14 fares better in biglaw than Yale. This is a better gauge for those people.


I read this whole paragraph twice and I can't find anywhere that you have shown me where I've complained about NYU's ranking.


To be frank, I haven't looked at all your posts because I don't care enough to. I inferred because most of the people complaining in this thread have a particular interest in the school.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:35 pm

fortissimo wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Because the clerkship data is from 2008? I'd say remove the clerkship data and just leave the 2009 biglaw stats, except there are A LOT of imbeciles who think that the biglaw stats alone means that almost every t-14 fares better in biglaw than Yale. This is a better gauge for those people.


I read this whole paragraph twice and I can't find anywhere that you have shown me where I've complained about NYU's ranking.


To be frank, I haven't looked at all your posts because I don't care enough to. I inferred because most of the people complaining in this thread have a particular interest in the school.


Ah. I appreciate you accusing me of something without anything to substantiate your claim. You're going to make an excellent lawyer one day.

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:36 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
fortissimo wrote:Because the clerkship data is from 2008? I'd say remove the clerkship data and just leave the 2009 biglaw stats, except there are A LOT of imbeciles who think that the biglaw stats alone means that almost every t-14 fares better in biglaw than Yale. This is a better gauge for those people.


I read this whole paragraph twice and I can't find anywhere that you have shown me where I've complained about NYU's ranking.


To be frank, I haven't looked at all your posts because I don't care enough to. I inferred because most of the people complaining in this thread have a particular interest in the school.


Ah. I appreciate you accusing me of something without anything to substantiate your claim. You're going to make an excellent lawyer one day.


I plan on going into transactional work, not litigation.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:45 pm

fortissimo wrote:I plan on going into transactional work, not litigation.


Awww. And here I was hoping you would say something like, "Jeez, that was kind of douchey of me, wasn't it? I'm sorry bro."

tamlyric
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby tamlyric » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:52 pm

What's with all the vitriol in this thread? Seems pretty pointless to me, unless, of course, people are just trying to entertain themselves. Can we not all agree that the OP was provisionally useful or informative? And can we not all agree that we might have to revise our provisional judgments when fresher data are made available? 8)
Last edited by tamlyric on Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:53 pm

tamlyric wrote:What's with all the vitriol in this thread? Seems pretty pointless to me, unless, of course, people are just trying to entertain themselves. Can we not all agree that the OP was provisionally useful or informative? 8)


No.

tamlyric
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby tamlyric » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:57 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
tamlyric wrote:What's with all the vitriol in this thread? Seems pretty pointless to me, unless, of course, people are just trying to entertain themselves. Can we not all agree that the OP was provisionally useful or informative? 8)


No.


Really? Why not? It's a pretty weak claim.




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