Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

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Bronte
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Bronte » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:35 am

And of course most people on TLS are concerned about class of 2012 or, in this subforum, 2013. But thanks for the clarification.

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rayiner
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:41 am

Bronte wrote:And of course most people on TLS are concerned about class of 2012 or, in this subforum, 2013. But thanks for the clarification.


2012 will be better than 2011, but that's all we can really say.

One big point to make is that the NLJ250 data really makes things look better than they are. I'm still expecting MVPBDNC to pull out 40-50% NLJ250 placement for C/O 2012. Doesn't sound like a huge drop from 55-60%, but it conceals the fact that for C/O 2009, probably 80-90% of the class at MVPBDNC could have gotten an NLJ250 job at OCI if they wanted one.

awesomepossum
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby awesomepossum » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:44 am

rayiner wrote:
Bronte wrote:And of course most people on TLS are concerned about class of 2012 or, in this subforum, 2013. But thanks for the clarification.


2012 will be better than 2011, but that's all we can really say.




UNLESS...... double dip recession FTW!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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rayiner
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:54 am

awesomepossum wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Bronte wrote:And of course most people on TLS are concerned about class of 2012 or, in this subforum, 2013. But thanks for the clarification.


2012 will be better than 2011, but that's all we can really say.




UNLESS...... double dip recession FTW!!! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


2013 is also screwed if Geithner goes for the hat trick.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby JusticeHarlan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:33 pm

echoi wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
Uh...that's only APPELLATE clerks, hence the site's name "federal appellate judicial clerks." :roll: The other info may be from a different year, but adding this information is even more inaccurate since it doesn't count any other type of Article III clerkships.


don't be an ass. i started my post by first stating my skepticism about the accuracy of using those numbers. i'm a 0L (with no idea what appellate and article III clerkships are) who added up the numbers out of curiosity and posted the results for others--i never claimed this was an accurate list, which I'd be stupid to do considering where Yale is.

Article III clerks are clerks who work for a judge in the federal judiciary (Article III refers to Article III of the Constitution, which establishes the Supreme Court and gives the power to establish other, lower courts). These include District Court judges (trial court level), Court of Appeals judges (the intermediary courts that can review decisions of the district courts), and the Supreme Court. (This would presumably exclude clerks for Bankruptcy Court judges).

Clerkships for the Appellate courts are considered the most prestigious clerkship one can get straight out of law school (Supreme Court Clerks are drawn from the outgoing Appellate clerk class, generally), with District Court clerkships generally considered the next most prestigious.

That's not to say those job are the best, but they're roughly equivalent to V100 or NLJ250 in that they're competitive and are a decent benchmark of a school's placement power

Just a 0L here, too, so someone else can step in and correct me if I'm wrong.

showNprove
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby showNprove » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:01 pm

.
Last edited by showNprove on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:02 pm

showNprove wrote:they'd appreciate being able to see projections of how the Class of 2009 may be doing.


But for clerkships, this isn't a projection. :|

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:02 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
showNprove wrote:they'd appreciate being able to see projections of how the Class of 2009 may be doing.


But for clerkships, this isn't a projection. :|


TITCR

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Dignan
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Dignan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:15 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
showNprove wrote:they'd appreciate being able to see projections of how the Class of 2009 may be doing.


But for clerkships, this isn't a projection. :|

I don't think the OP is really interested in providing useful information. It's clear at this point that the list is little more than a thinly-veiled attempt at UVA trolling. There's nothing wrong with trolling, but we should identify it as such.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:18 pm

Dignan wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:
showNprove wrote:they'd appreciate being able to see projections of how the Class of 2009 may be doing.


But for clerkships, this isn't a projection. :|

I don't think the OP is really interested in providing useful information. It's clear at this point that the list is little more than a thinly-veiled attempt at UVA trolling. There's nothing wrong with trolling, but we should identify it as such.


Virginians have learned from West Virginia that veils are unncessary. Just one more barrier between the husband's open palm and the wife's cheek. hth

09042014
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:19 pm

showNprove wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:Why include data that isn't accurate even as a "general idea"? For all we know, the "general idea" is wayyyyy off.

You raise valid questions, and no, this data isn't "accurate" for the Class of 2009, but most people realize that clerkships are as an important part of placement as biglaw, and they'd appreciate being able to see projections of how the Class of 2009 may be doing. Until we get data that shows how clerkship hiring is changing across schools--if at all, because the increased hiring standards doesn't mean there will be a change in percentages across schools that are more or less comparable--this is the best information we have. If you think it's worthless, then ignore it.


There were very large changes in NLJ250 placement between 2008 and 2009. Why do you then assume the changes between 2008 and 2009 for clerkship's aren't similarly significant?

What do you think a no offered HLS student is going to do? Try to get a clerkship, and will try hard.

You have 2008 and 2009 NLJ250 data, and you only have 2008 clerking data. So why not construct a 2008 list?

Because it won't show your school as being all that great.

miamiman
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby miamiman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:24 pm

And that boys and girls, is why we call DF the secretary of smackdowns

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:27 pm

miamiman wrote:And that boys and girls, is why we call DF the secretary of smackdowns


Subtle shot at DF's masculinity?

miamiman
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby miamiman » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:29 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
miamiman wrote:And that boys and girls, is why we call DF the secretary of smackdowns


Subtle shot at DF's masculinity?


Hardly.

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:04 pm

Kronk wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:While Stanford is definitely proving itself to be a top three school (and is my top choice so I like to troll for them), I kind of think that them being so far ahead shows how dominance of regions has effected 2009 data. I don't think it will remain that way even into the next year.

You suck at grammar. hth


--ImageRemoved--

4045 posts FTW

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm

crackberry wrote:4045 posts FTW


Sorry bro please try again

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:12 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
crackberry wrote:4045 posts FTW


Sorry bro please try again

Hey KM do you have a job? Your posts/day is astronomical.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Stringer Bell » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:13 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
showNprove wrote:
Fancy Pants wrote:Why include data that isn't accurate even as a "general idea"? For all we know, the "general idea" is wayyyyy off.

You raise valid questions, and no, this data isn't "accurate" for the Class of 2009, but most people realize that clerkships are as an important part of placement as biglaw, and they'd appreciate being able to see projections of how the Class of 2009 may be doing. Until we get data that shows how clerkship hiring is changing across schools--if at all, because the increased hiring standards doesn't mean there will be a change in percentages across schools that are more or less comparable--this is the best information we have. If you think it's worthless, then ignore it.


There were very large changes in NLJ250 placement between 2008 and 2009. Why do you then assume the changes between 2008 and 2009 for clerkship's aren't similarly significant?

What do you think a no offered HLS student is going to do? Try to get a clerkship, and will try hard.

You have 2008 and 2009 NLJ250 data, and you only have 2008 clerking data. So why not construct a 2008 list?

Because it won't show your school as being all that great.


I agree with your assumptions, and this list obviously has a high probability of looking different with '09 clerkship data, but I think assuming static clerkship placement is more useful than just looking at '08. I work on an analytics desk and we make these kinds of assumptions internally in the absence of actual data when we have to. You just have to understand you are dealing with incomplete data.

The conclusion that you can draw from this is that the '09 placement breakout by school MIGHT look different than most of us thought it would.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:14 pm

crackberry wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:
crackberry wrote:4045 posts FTW


Sorry bro please try again

Hey KM do you have a job? Your posts/day is astronomical.


Yeah bro, I'm a pro at app switch though.

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:18 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
crackberry wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:
crackberry wrote:4045 posts FTW


Sorry bro please try again

Hey KM do you have a job? Your posts/day is astronomical.


Yeah bro, I'm a pro at app switch though.

Apparently. 50+ posts/day is nothing to scoff at.

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Fancy Pants
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Fancy Pants » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:20 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:I agree with your assumptions, and this list obviously has a high probability of looking different with '09 clerkship data, but I think assuming static clerkship placement is more useful than just looking at '08. I work on an analytics desk and we make these kinds of assumptions internally in the absence of actual data when we have to. You just have to understand you are dealing with incomplete data.

The conclusion that you can draw from this is that the '09 placement breakout by school MIGHT look different than most of us thought it would.


So in your job they think it's a good idea to assume that data will remain consistent from one year to the next even when there are major reasons for believing things will be very different, and when the release of similar data has already confirmed that things will be very different?

I'm no analyst but that seems like a stupid idea.

Also, just FYI. Wrong data =/= "incomplete data".

showNprove
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby showNprove » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:25 pm

.
Last edited by showNprove on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EijiMiyake
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby EijiMiyake » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:29 pm

Fancy Pants wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:I agree with your assumptions, and this list obviously has a high probability of looking different with '09 clerkship data, but I think assuming static clerkship placement is more useful than just looking at '08. I work on an analytics desk and we make these kinds of assumptions internally in the absence of actual data when we have to. You just have to understand you are dealing with incomplete data.

The conclusion that you can draw from this is that the '09 placement breakout by school MIGHT look different than most of us thought it would.


So in your job they think it's a good idea to assume that data will remain consistent from one year to the next even when there are major reasons for believing things will be very different, and when the release of similar data has already confirmed that things will be very different?

I'm no analyst but that seems like a stupid idea.

Also, just FYI. Wrong data =/= "incomplete data".


At just about every analytical job, doing something that is a "kind-of sort-of, half-way there" approximation is a better option than saying that the answer is currently unknowable, as long as it's labeled as such.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:30 pm

Except NLJ data on its own is more valuable than NLJ + misused clerkship data

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EijiMiyake
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby EijiMiyake » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:32 pm

kittenmittons wrote:Except NLJ data on its own is more valuable than NLJ + misused clerkship data



Probably. I haven't actually the thread.




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