Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

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jnorsky
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby jnorsky » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:05 pm

NYU has a good law school? They have Private Investigator jobs with the ACLU?

09042014
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:16 pm

Guys NYU is the best public school in America. Give it some slack.

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Reedie
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Reedie » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:09 pm

postitnotes wrote:
Kronk wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:How are you figuring Berk has a better faculty than Michigan?


How valuable their contributions are:

http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2 ... pact.shtml

Plus they have John Yoo. hth


Not this again...
http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2 ... ship.shtml

These rankings show that Michigan> Boalt, and before you say that they will likely change next year...these rankings are for AAAS membership, which is for life. I haven't checked the previous rankings but you said it was switched whenever it was last conducted, but this probably means that Boalt lost AAAS faculty members since the last membership rankings were conducted. So unless schools lose faculty or their faculty gain membership, it's probably not going to change.

I find it ironic that you criticize UVA trolls, but you are probably worse.


Ummm, what? The AAS (I'm not throwing the and in there) numbers are interesting, but citation analysis is a much better metric. The AAS is a great honor, but it's not really intended to be a tool for measuring faculty quality. It's just easier to calculate whereas citation analysis take time. If someone has written a dozen journal articles that get cited constantly because of the novelty of their research and approach, they are a damn good academic whether or not the AAS has invited them to join their reindeer games.

Further, these numbers certainly can change because the top schools are constantly raiding one another's faculties.

Edit, shoot he even explains that right in the article:

"In reality, the Academy tends to be a bit “chummy”—schools already “rich” with members get “richer,” not always on the merits—though the sins tend to be of omission rather than inclusion."

Also, Virginia's somewhat weaker faculty numbers are apparently due to having lost some key scholars a few years back. No doubt they will eventually make some big senior level appointments to replace that.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:55 pm

The difference between me and the UVa troll is that there is a less than 50% chance I attend Boalt, whereas they already have a bias towards UVa.

Michigan doesn't have trolls. Being so close to Detroit makes them too depressed.

miamiman
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby miamiman » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:00 pm

Kronk wrote:The difference between me and the UVa troll is that there is a less than 50% chance I attend Boalt, whereas they already have a bias towards UVa.

Michigan doesn't have trolls. Being so close to Detroit makes them too depressed.



+1. I pulled my ED to Michigan bc I was afraid of being in that failed state right now.

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:12 pm

Kronk wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:2009 could be anomalous for many reasons cited by others ITT and I'm not trying to argue that Mich and UVA are better schools based on that. But the prevailing wisdom on this site for awhile seems to have been that NYU is vastly superior "just because" and this limited data set seems to contradict that.


Pretty sure it is. The idea that the data was anomalous was pretty much the reason I started this flame-off. But as Desert Fox said (who is a future NU 1L): "There has to be something wrong with it because NU is ahead of UChicago and that can't be correct."

I don't think anyone argues NYU is better "just because." There are a large number of factors, including student quality, faculty prominence (I won't say quality if that annoys you), proximity to local markets, number of firms at OCI and the firms that do OCI at NYU but not UM and UVa, LRAP programs, clinical opportunities, etc.

But whatever, I started arguing mostly as a flame but the UVa fanboys have impenetrable defenses. If you want to believe a seat at Virginia gives you as much more as a seat at NYU, that's fine.


As for number of offices at OCI. I think UM has one of the highest numbers of offices at OCI, possibly after Harvard and Georgetown. Even this past OCI we had ~300, which is a lot more (something like ~100 more offices) than those at both Boalt (proportionally more taking into account class size) and UVA (which has a similar class size). In the past we've typically had 700-800 offices at OCI. We get a lot from NYC, Chicago, and DC, some from LA, SF, Houston, Dallas, ATL, etc. and some from secondary markets. You should do research before you comment. Also, both UM and UVA place about 8% into PI/gov work...not 2% or whatever it was you guys stated.
Last edited by fortissimo on Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:18 pm

Kronk wrote:There is a less than 50% chance I attend Boalt.

Please explain.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:19 pm

fortissimo wrote:As for number of offices at OCI. I think UM has one of the highest numbers of offices at OCI, possibly after Harvard and Georgetown. Even this past OCI we had 300, which is a lot more (something like 100 more offices) than those at both Boalt and UVA. In the past we've typically had 700-800 offices at OCI. We get a lot from NYC, Chicago, and DC, some from LA, SF, etc. and some from secondary markets. You should do research before you comment. Also, both UM and UVA place about 8% into PI/gov work...not 2% or whatever it was you guys stated.


I wasn't comparing UM's OCI to UVa or Boalt. I was comparing UVA to NYU. UM is collateral damage (and does much, much better with its PI/gov students than Virginia, although not as well as Boalt or NYU).

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:22 pm

crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:There is a less than 50% chance I attend Boalt.

Please explain.


Spoke with a Chicago professor on the phone yesterday for awhile and was very impressed and excited about what is going on over there for public interest people. Also none of the faculty I've contacted from Boalt or NYU have responded to me and its been a few weeks, and I've been in close contact with three professors from Chicago who assuaged my worries about Chicago's lack of PI support.

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stratocophic
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby stratocophic » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:23 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Guys NYU is the best public school in America. Give it some slack.

Egregious anti-Penn trolling

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:25 pm

stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Guys NYU is the best public school in America. Give it some slack.

Egregious anti-Penn trolling


To be fair, PenNYU - Greenwich Village is a better campus than PenNYU - University City.

hth

fortissimo
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby fortissimo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:26 pm

Kronk wrote:
fortissimo wrote:As for number of offices at OCI. I think UM has one of the highest numbers of offices at OCI, possibly after Harvard and Georgetown. Even this past OCI we had 300, which is a lot more (something like 100 more offices) than those at both Boalt and UVA. In the past we've typically had 700-800 offices at OCI. We get a lot from NYC, Chicago, and DC, some from LA, SF, etc. and some from secondary markets. You should do research before you comment. Also, both UM and UVA place about 8% into PI/gov work...not 2% or whatever it was you guys stated.


I wasn't comparing UM's OCI to UVa or Boalt. I was comparing UVA to NYU. UM is collateral damage (and does much, much better with its PI/gov students than Virginia, although not as well as Boalt or NYU).


Well, there are far fewer UM trolls so I wanted to clarify the stats because you talked about OCI at UM (well I guess you were mainly referring to UVA's). UM usually gets more offices at OCI than NYU, partly because our students are more geographically diverse and more interested in working in different regions.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:27 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Guys NYU is the best public school in America. Give it some slack.

Egregious anti-Penn trolling


To be fair, PenNYU - Greenwich Village is a better campus than PenNYU - University City.

hth


Neither compares with Penn State - Philadelphia Annex.

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:27 pm

Kronk wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:There is a less than 50% chance I attend Boalt.

Please explain.


Spoke with a Chicago professor on the phone yesterday for awhile and was very impressed and excited about what is going on over there for public interest people. Also none of the faculty I've contacted from Boalt or NYU have responded to me and its been a few weeks, and I've been in close contact with three professors from Chicago who assuaged my worries about Chicago's lack of PI support.

California sunshine >>> Chicago wind and snow.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:28 pm

fortissimo wrote:Well, there are far fewer UM trolls so I wanted to clarify the stats because you talked about OCI at UM (well I guess you were mainly referring to UVA's). UM usually gets more offices at OCI than NYU, partly because our students are more geographically diverse and more interested in working in different regions.


Credited. NYU's OCI is very NYC centric. My argument this whole time is that it doesn't matter, because people who go to NYU generally want to stay in New York or the Northeast, and in those areas NYU outperforms most.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:29 pm

crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:There is a less than 50% chance I attend Boalt.

Please explain.


Spoke with a Chicago professor on the phone yesterday for awhile and was very impressed and excited about what is going on over there for public interest people. Also none of the faculty I've contacted from Boalt or NYU have responded to me and its been a few weeks, and I've been in close contact with three professors from Chicago who assuaged my worries about Chicago's lack of PI support.

California sunshine >>> Chicago wind and snow.


Which is why I want Stanford to call. Although I talked to one (admittedly biased) professor who left as director of Stanford's PI progams to go to Chicago and be the PI director there and he believes they're actually more supportive of him and his students are more interested at Chicago, which I thought was weird.

Either way, it wouldn't disillusion me into thinking Chicago > SLS for PI. Just sayin.

Edit: Although they do have one amazing clinic at Chicago that is EXACTLY the type of law I am interested in and the professor claims it's the only one with that focus in the USA. Still though.

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:31 pm

Kronk wrote:Which is why I want Stanford to call. Although I talked to one (admittedly biased) professor who left as director of Stanford's PI progams to go to Chicago and be the PI director there and he believes they're actually more supportive of him and his students are more interested at Chicago, which I thought was weird.

Either way, it wouldn't disillusion me into thinking Chicago > SLS for PI. Just sayin.

Edit: Although they do have one amazing clinic at Chicago that is EXACTLY the type of law I am interested in and the professor claims it's the only one with that focus in the USA. Still though.

I'll admit I was a little surprised to see Stanford leading the way in all these new charts. I have no interest in BigLaw so it doesn't affect me in that way, but I dunno.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:33 pm

crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:Which is why I want Stanford to call. Although I talked to one (admittedly biased) professor who left as director of Stanford's PI progams to go to Chicago and be the PI director there and he believes they're actually more supportive of him and his students are more interested at Chicago, which I thought was weird.

Either way, it wouldn't disillusion me into thinking Chicago > SLS for PI. Just sayin.

Edit: Although they do have one amazing clinic at Chicago that is EXACTLY the type of law I am interested in and the professor claims it's the only one with that focus in the USA. Still though.

I'll admit I was a little surprised to see Stanford leading the way in all these new charts. I have no interest in BigLaw so it doesn't affect me in that way, but I dunno.


Me either. I might consider a clerkship if I had the grades, but being a judge's coffee and schedule bitch for a year or two doesn't sound appealing. After all, that's what I spent all my internships in undergrad doing. I'd like to think I've grown out of that.

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crackberry
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby crackberry » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:35 pm

Kronk wrote:Me either. I might consider a clerkship if I had the grades, but being a judge's coffee and schedule bitch for a year or two doesn't sound appealing. After all, that's what I spent all my internships in undergrad doing. I'd like to think I've grown out of that.

Yeah, I think I definitely want to clerk, ideally on the 9th Circuit, which makes SLS probably the best choice I could have. But then I want to do my best BoalTTT impersonation and go into environmental law and save the whales and all that shit.

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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby showNprove » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:36 pm

.
Last edited by showNprove on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:37 pm

showNprove wrote:
Kronk wrote:
fortissimo wrote:As for number of offices at OCI. I think UM has one of the highest numbers of offices at OCI, possibly after Harvard and Georgetown. Even this past OCI we had 300, which is a lot more (something like 100 more offices) than those at both Boalt and UVA. In the past we've typically had 700-800 offices at OCI. We get a lot from NYC, Chicago, and DC, some from LA, SF, etc. and some from secondary markets. You should do research before you comment. Also, both UM and UVA place about 8% into PI/gov work...not 2% or whatever it was you guys stated.


I wasn't comparing UM's OCI to UVa or Boalt. I was comparing UVA to NYU. UM is collateral damage (and does much, much better with its PI/gov students than Virginia, although not as well as Boalt or NYU).

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but I'm pretty certain that UVa places more students into Gov't than Mich, but Mich places more into PI.


Makes sense. Although I've heard UVa is trying to upgrade their LRAP, right now Michigan's is far superior and that was the "support" I was referring to.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:38 pm

crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:Me either. I might consider a clerkship if I had the grades, but being a judge's coffee and schedule bitch for a year or two doesn't sound appealing. After all, that's what I spent all my internships in undergrad doing. I'd like to think I've grown out of that.

Yeah, I think I definitely want to clerk, ideally on the 9th Circuit, which makes SLS probably the best choice I could have. But then I want to do my best BoalTTT impersonation and go into environmental law and save the whales and all that shit.


Yeah which is going to be difficult when I go on a rampage and kill them all after Dean Deal rejects me and Boalt refuses me any aid.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:39 pm

Kronk wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:Me either. I might consider a clerkship if I had the grades, but being a judge's coffee and schedule bitch for a year or two doesn't sound appealing. After all, that's what I spent all my internships in undergrad doing. I'd like to think I've grown out of that.

Yeah, I think I definitely want to clerk, ideally on the 9th Circuit, which makes SLS probably the best choice I could have. But then I want to do my best BoalTTT impersonation and go into environmental law and save the whales and all that shit.


Yeah which is going to be difficult when I go on a rampage and kill them all after Dean Deal rejects me and Boalt refuses me any aid.


I don't know bro, Willy would probably pwn you and your RIGORous JD

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RVP11
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:40 pm

Wait, is Kronk a 0L?

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:40 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Wait, Kronk is a 0L?


Yeah I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.




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