Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
oneforship
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby oneforship » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:17 pm

scribelaw wrote:
oneforship wrote:
Kronk wrote:
scribelaw wrote:I don't know why everyone is beating up on NYU as a result of these numbers.


Easy answer here. Because they're part of the UVa fanboy posse. Jaws things everyone in the world should ED to Virginia if they want to get in and one of them once said that "People inside the law community really don't care about rankings. I heard a professor once say that he wasn't impressed with Yale and thought UVA was the best school in the nation."


I really just don't see what makes NYU better than UVA unless you want to work in NYC. Not trolling here, this is my actual opinion.


Isn't half the country's white-shoe legal market in NYC?


Perhaps, but it's not the half I'm interested in working in. If I were, I'd go to NYU over UVA--if I had the option.

oneforship
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:17 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby oneforship » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:18 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
oneforship wrote:
Kronk wrote:
scribelaw wrote:I don't know why everyone is beating up on NYU as a result of these numbers.


Easy answer here. Because they're part of the UVa fanboy posse. Jaws things everyone in the world should ED to Virginia if they want to get in and one of them once said that "People inside the law community really don't care about rankings. I heard a professor once say that he wasn't impressed with Yale and thought UVA was the best school in the nation."


I really just don't see what makes NYU better than UVA unless you want to work in NYC. Not trolling here, this is my actual opinion.


Nothing, but when NYC is a huge market being better there makes it better overall.


Not necessarily. UM or UVA could outplace NYU in other markets at such a rate so as to make them equal. Whether or not that is true, I don't know. No one will every be able to tell, because I bet NYU students self select into the NYC market.

User avatar
Mulliganstew
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:41 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Mulliganstew » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:19 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Mulliganstew wrote:I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.


It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.


Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.

User avatar
Borhas
Posts: 4862
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Borhas » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:20 pm

I knew my SYH trolling was based in reality.

hah, vindicated

User avatar
RVP11
Posts: 2774
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:22 pm

oneforship wrote:Not necessarily. UM or UVA could outplace NYU in other markets at such a rate so as to make them equal. Whether or not that is true, I don't know. No one will every be able to tell, because I bet NYU students self select into the NYC market.


Yep. NYU students self-select into NYC because people who like NYC self-select into NYU.

I know maybe 2 people here who are dead set on going up to NYC, and tons that want DC, Texas, Florida, or California. Yet UVA manages to get almost as many people to NYC as to DC, strangely.
Last edited by RVP11 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kohinoor
Posts: 2756
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:51 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kohinoor » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:25 pm

Berkeley pretty far down there despite not being a NY feeder.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:25 pm

Mulliganstew wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Mulliganstew wrote:I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.


It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.


Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.


I would take that bet in real life. Over the internet really isn't going to work.

Irrelevant for job placement. Go ask IUB for their OCI list. It'll be embarrassing.

User avatar
RVP11
Posts: 2774
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:26 pm

Kohinoor wrote:Berkeley pretty far down there despite not being a NY feeder.


Cue IP/PI/California boutique discussion.

User avatar
Mulliganstew
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:41 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Mulliganstew » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:27 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Mulliganstew wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Mulliganstew wrote:I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.


It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.


Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.


I would take that bet in real life. Over the internet really isn't going to work.

Irrelevant for job placement. Go ask IUB for their OCI list. It'll be embarrassing.


No doubt OCI sucked this year. I have to agree there.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:31 pm

Mulliganstew wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Mulliganstew wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.


Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.


I would take that bet in real life. Over the internet really isn't going to work.

Irrelevant for job placement. Go ask IUB for their OCI list. It'll be embarrassing.


No doubt OCI sucked this year. I have to agree there.


OCI sucked everywhere. My point though was IUB doesn't carry out of Indiana, well if at all. Indiana is great for Indiana, but Indiana's law market isn't that big. IUB places worse in Chicago than Kent, Loyola, and DePaul.

User avatar
scribelaw
Posts: 771
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby scribelaw » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:38 pm

The thing I find striking about these numbers is how broadly similar the job opportunities are across the T10. I think we're all just better off weighing what type of law we want to practice, financial and regional considerations, and personal preference. These numbers are within a few percentage points of each other.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I find it fairly encouraging that, in a terrible economy, people graduating at the median were getting well-paying jobs across the T10.

I bet if you looked across at UGs and other types of grad schools, the case is very different.
Last edited by scribelaw on Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Stringer Bell » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:43 pm

Kronk wrote:pwned is you at OCI. I think it's pretty obvious that NYU places better than both, even in '09--especially considering they put a significantly larger portion of their class into prestigious PI.


ITT we learn that "hard to get" = better.

User avatar
jmaan
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:15 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby jmaan » Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:44 pm

scribelaw wrote:The thing I find striking about these numbers are how broadly similar the job opportunities are across the T10. I think we're all just better off weighing what type of law you want to practice, financial and regional considerations, and personal preference. These numbers are within a few percentage points of each other.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I find it fairly encouraging that, in a terrible economy, people graduating at the median were getting well-paying jobs across the T10.

I bet if you looked across at UGs and other types of grad schools, the case is very different.


agreed...i graduated top 10% from a t-2 university and i watch tv all day

User avatar
Mulliganstew
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:41 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Mulliganstew » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:03 am

Desert Fox wrote:
OCI sucked everywhere. My point though was IUB doesn't carry out of Indiana, well if at all. Indiana is great for Indiana, but Indiana's law market isn't that big. IUB places worse in Chicago than Kent, Loyola, and DePaul.


That's assuming it's either Indiana or Chicago... Indiana places well throughout the midwest. I can guarantee you they place better than Loyola anywhere outside of Chicago.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:04 am

Mulliganstew wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
OCI sucked everywhere. My point though was IUB doesn't carry out of Indiana, well if at all. Indiana is great for Indiana, but Indiana's law market isn't that big. IUB places worse in Chicago than Kent, Loyola, and DePaul.


That's assuming it's either Indiana or Chicago... Indiana places well throughout the midwest. I can guarantee you they place better than Loyola anywhere outside of Chicago.


Without a doubt.

Kretzy
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:11 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kretzy » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:27 am

Borhas wrote:I knew my SYH trolling was based in reality.

hah, vindicated


:mrgreen:

User avatar
AngryAvocado
Posts: 776
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:22 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby AngryAvocado » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:45 am

jmaan wrote:
scribelaw wrote:The thing I find striking about these numbers are how broadly similar the job opportunities are across the T10. I think we're all just better off weighing what type of law you want to practice, financial and regional considerations, and personal preference. These numbers are within a few percentage points of each other.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I find it fairly encouraging that, in a terrible economy, people graduating at the median were getting well-paying jobs across the T10.

I bet if you looked across at UGs and other types of grad schools, the case is very different.


agreed...i graduated top 10% from a t-2 university and i watch tv all day


So true. If you graduated top 10% from a T2 law school, you'd be watching cable.

Edit: I keed, I keed. I know he's probably already watching cable.

User avatar
Dick Whitman
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:55 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Dick Whitman » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:55 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Mulliganstew wrote:I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.


It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.


Chicago firms will be shocked -- SHOCKED I say -- to hear of corruption in Illinois.

User avatar
Kronk
Posts: 28282
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:58 am

Stringer Bell wrote:
Kronk wrote:pwned is you at OCI. I think it's pretty obvious that NYU places better than both, even in '09--especially considering they put a significantly larger portion of their class into prestigious PI.


ITT we learn that "hard to get" = better.


They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth

User avatar
TTT-LS
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby TTT-LS » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:26 am

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kronk
Posts: 28282
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:29 am

TTT-LS wrote:
Kronk wrote:
They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth

This may be true most of the time, but there's no way it is the case all of the time.

Even if you don't agree with me re: the above, you should at least agree that your rule doesn't apply in the individual context. Here's an example what I have in mind: I had offers from a number of firms after 2L OCI, including Williams & Connolly. Yet I chose to go to a different firm, one that is more or less universally thought to be "worse" than W&C. That conventional wisdom notwithstanding, the decision was unquestionably the right one for me, given my professional interests. The same kind of calculus comes up for people in the law school admissions, 2L SA, journal board, clerkship, and all kinds of other contexts.


We aren't really talking about personal interests ITT though. If you bring up something person, like I want to work for X._________ firm, then we could discuss which school would be best for that. We're discussing these schools in a general sense. Certain schools are "better" than others, just as certain jobs are "better" than others. Not for everyone, but for the large majority.

User avatar
TTT-LS
Posts: 764
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby TTT-LS » Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:38 am

.
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

spritecan
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:56 am

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby spritecan » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:12 am

This has turned into a shit fest.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:32 am

Kronk wrote:They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth


Yes. I understand how supply and demand works, but you have attached a very subjective standard now to say that a school is better just because a small percentage of the class is able to get a competitive job over a smaller percentage of another school. It's tough to get an ADA job in Alpine, Texas. If a St. Mary's grad beats out a few UT grads and a Duke grad for it, does that make St. Mary's a better school? If you want to say that NYU is a better school for PI, that's fine. But that is a separate animal from NYU being a better law school. We could take your argument a step further and say that Vermont is NU's peer because they pwn them placing in environmental law.

User avatar
Kronk
Posts: 28282
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:39 am

Stringer Bell wrote:
Kronk wrote:They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth


Yes. I understand how supply and demand works, but you have attached a very subjective standard now to say that a school is better just because a small percentage of the class is able to get a competitive job over a smaller percentage of another school. It's tough to get an ADA job in Alpine, Texas. If a St. Mary's grad beats out a few UT grads and a Duke grad for it, does that make St. Mary's a better school? If you want to say that NYU is a better school for PI, that's fine. But that is a separate animal from NYU being a better law school. We could take your argument a step further and say that Vermont is NU's peer because they pwn them placing in environmental law.


Just curious, what metric would you like to use? Because NYU has a stronger student body than UVA, a better rated faculty, has placed into BigLaw better than UVA in every year except for one poll in 2009 (and in particular has an edge the more higher a firm is ranked by Vault). NYU also has more firms at OCI, including firms that don't even attend Virginia like WLRK. They also place about 7% more of their class into PI than UVa does, have a far better LRAP, and are ranked fifth as opposed to UVa's 10th. So, once you decide a metric on which to base which school is better, why don't we go from there?




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests