Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

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jnorsky
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby jnorsky » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:30 pm

jesus, they are all top ten law schools, cant everyone just be happy

legends159
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby legends159 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:30 pm

Kronk wrote:
legends159 wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
Kronk wrote:Yeah. Because none of it changes the fact that 1Ls at NYU have summer jobs at market-paying firms and 1Ls at UVA / Michigan are trying to get whatever midlaw / government thing they can find.


Har har.

Yes, the true benchmark of gauging legal hiring: number of 1L SAs making market.


and based on anecdotal evidence...



You guys HONESTLY think that UVa and Michigan place better than NYU into firms? REALLY?!


Maybe, maybe not. Unsure why it would come as a shock though unless USNWR is as meaningful to you as it is to hiring partners. At best I can only say, I don't know. If it's NYC firms then no. If it's outside of NYC firms, I'm not sure.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:31 pm

women'ssoccer wrote:Image


OK, I'll stop blowing up this thread after this:

Does this graph confirm the existence of MID-LAW?

OR, did they just have to put a line between 50K and 160K to make the graph not look dumb?


Everyone does realize that this chart only has like 50% reporting, right?

It's written right near the graph at its original posting.

miamiman
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby miamiman » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:32 pm

jnorsky wrote:jesus, they are all top ten law schools, cant everyone just be happy


Lol. That kind of a statement suggests you're new to these parts. Enjoy the ride.

women'ssoccer
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby women'ssoccer » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:38 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
women'ssoccer wrote:Image


OK, I'll stop blowing up this thread after this:

Does this graph confirm the existence of MID-LAW?

OR, did they just have to put a line between 50K and 160K to make the graph not look dumb?


Everyone does realize that this chart only has like 50% reporting, right?

It's written right near the graph at its original posting.


Gotcha. Mid-Law jobs are not that prevolent on the graph because those who have those jobs are also those who didn't report. :wink:

awesomepossum
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:39 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:Just a thought: NYC is still the largest legal market in the country. It's not going to stay screwed forever. UVA and Mich are awesome, but taking the long view, I don't see how CCN will continue to suffer like this when the market corrects itself.


Word to the uninformed: Chicago doesn't have a large proportion of their students going to NYC. For U of M students, New York is the largest destination.

:P

Just messing with you.

jnorsky
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby jnorsky » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:41 pm

miamiman wrote:
jnorsky wrote:jesus, they are all top ten law schools, cant everyone just be happy


Lol. That kind of a statement suggests you're new to these parts. Enjoy the ride.


haha, not new, but not on all the time. this place helped me a lot with my LS stuff, but dam, people like to argue about stupid shit.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:46 pm

legends159 wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Unsure why it would come as a shock though unless USNWR is as meaningful to you as it is to hiring partners. At best I can only say, I don't know. If it's NYC firms then no. If it's outside of NYC firms, I'm not sure.


It has nothing to do with the USNWR rankings. It has to do with the fact that NYU is a better school with a better faculty and exists in the largest legal market--BY FAR--in the United States. The pure size of the NY market is enormous. Not to mention it is one of the top markets for UVa grads after D.C.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby jawsthegreat » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:48 pm

Kronk wrote:
legends159 wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Unsure why it would come as a shock though unless USNWR is as meaningful to you as it is to hiring partners. At best I can only say, I don't know. If it's NYC firms then no. If it's outside of NYC firms, I'm not sure.


It has nothing to do with the USNWR rankings. It has to do with the fact that NYU is a better school with a better faculty and exists in the largest legal market--BY FAR--in the United States. The pure size of the NY market is enormous. Not to mention it is one of the top markets for UVa grads after D.C.


What does it even mean when people say this?

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:50 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:
Kronk wrote:
legends159 wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Unsure why it would come as a shock though unless USNWR is as meaningful to you as it is to hiring partners. At best I can only say, I don't know. If it's NYC firms then no. If it's outside of NYC firms, I'm not sure.


It has nothing to do with the USNWR rankings. It has to do with the fact that NYU is a better school with a better faculty and exists in the largest legal market--BY FAR--in the United States. The pure size of the NY market is enormous. Not to mention it is one of the top markets for UVa grads after D.C.


What does it even mean when people say this?


A more prestigious faculty. Which in itself doesn't mean they are better teachers. But I'm pretty sure it'd help you get a job if Dworkin or Epstein called over for you or wrote you a letter of rec.

postitnotes
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby postitnotes » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:52 pm

awesomepossum wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:Just a thought: NYC is still the largest legal market in the country. It's not going to stay screwed forever. UVA and Mich are awesome, but taking the long view, I don't see how CCN will continue to suffer like this when the market corrects itself.


Word to the uninformed: Chicago doesn't have a large proportion of their students going to NYC. For U of M students, New York is the largest destination.

:P

Just messing with you.


Right. U of M sends about twice as many people to NYC as it does to Chicago. Chicago and California are tied as the second most common destinations, and DC is up there too.

I think one issue about NYU placement outside of NYC is that it is a recently risen school. Current hiring partners and judges don't have the same impression of it as a "t-6" as "young" people do. And no, not all employers nor judges (I can't imagine them obsessing over USNews) look up current rankings.
Last edited by postitnotes on Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Reedie
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Reedie » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:52 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:What does it even mean when people say this?


Citation analysis and reputation surveys are probable the best metric--though those measure scholarship and not teaching. Nobody gives a fuck about teaching though.

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RVP11
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:54 pm

Kronk wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
Kronk wrote:
legends159 wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Unsure why it would come as a shock though unless USNWR is as meaningful to you as it is to hiring partners. At best I can only say, I don't know. If it's NYC firms then no. If it's outside of NYC firms, I'm not sure.


It has nothing to do with the USNWR rankings. It has to do with the fact that NYU is a better school with a better faculty and exists in the largest legal market--BY FAR--in the United States. The pure size of the NY market is enormous. Not to mention it is one of the top markets for UVa grads after D.C.


What does it even mean when people say this?


A more prestigious faculty. Which in itself doesn't mean they are better teachers. But I'm pretty sure it'd help you get a job if Dworkin or Epstein called over for you or wrote you a letter of rec.


USNWR's lawyer/judge scores disagree with you. And I'd say that's a better barometer of what actual practicing attorneys think of your school than the number of times your professors are cited or how famous they are.

I don't think BigLaw employers care that much about prestigious faculty members. That prestigious faculty is mostly just impressive to other schools' faculties.
Last edited by RVP11 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

awesomepossum
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:55 pm

Kronk wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
Kronk wrote:
legends159 wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Unsure why it would come as a shock though unless USNWR is as meaningful to you as it is to hiring partners. At best I can only say, I don't know. If it's NYC firms then no. If it's outside of NYC firms, I'm not sure.


It has nothing to do with the USNWR rankings. It has to do with the fact that NYU is a better school with a better faculty and exists in the largest legal market--BY FAR--in the United States. The pure size of the NY market is enormous. Not to mention it is one of the top markets for UVa grads after D.C.


What does it even mean when people say this?


A more prestigious faculty. Which in itself doesn't mean they are better teachers. But I'm pretty sure it'd help you get a job if Dworkin or Epstein called over for you or wrote you a letter of rec.


That people sit around thinking about what is more prestigious makes me throw up a little. It's not just my hangover.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:56 pm

awesomepossum wrote:That people sit around thinking about what is more prestigious makes me throw up a little. It's not just my hangover.


Did you read the second part of my sentence, champ?

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RVP11
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby RVP11 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:57 pm

Yes, NYU is better than UVA or Michigan because there's a larger chance Ronald Dworkin will help you get a job.
Last edited by RVP11 on Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

awesomepossum
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby awesomepossum » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:57 pm

Kronk wrote:
awesomepossum wrote:That people sit around thinking about what is more prestigious makes me throw up a little. It's not just my hangover.


Did you read the second part of my sentence, champ?



....seconded only by people who use the word "champ."

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Rand M.
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Rand M. » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:58 pm

miamiman wrote:This has all been wonderfully amusing but I'm still waiting for someone to bail out CCN.



'Cause right now, given this and other like threads, I'm starting to call into question everything tls has taught me about t6 > t10 > t14


+1. This feels like an episode of LOST where we have just found out that our lovable Kate is actually ...a convict. Are there really no explainers at work here?

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:59 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:USNWR's lawyer/judge scores disagree with you.


But USNWR's peer rep scores put NYU ahead. http://money-law.blogspot.com/2009/07/z ... n-law.html.

Also, Leiter's rankings put NYU way ahead: http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2 ... pact.shtml

and

http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2 ... ship.shtml


UVA is not known for it's faculty.

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:00 pm

awesomepossum wrote:....seconded only by people who use the word "champ."


It was meant to patronize you. It worked. hth

09042014
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby 09042014 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:01 pm

NYU will beat a UVa or UM student inside NYC outside they are pretty much peers.

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Reedie
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Reedie » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:02 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:Yes, NYU is better than UVA or Michigan because there's a larger chance Ronald Dworkin will help you get a job.


Heh. If you want to get an academic job in law and phil it probably would be a big plus. Nobody hires virginia grads because they all know y'all just play softball all day. It's essentially just the most expensive softball league in the country.

postitnotes
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby postitnotes » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:03 pm

Is anyone else surprised by Boalt's or U Penn's placement?

And honestly, I think Duke is very underrated given its bad rap on TLS. Duke > Boalt and Penn? Thoughts?
Last edited by postitnotes on Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rand M.
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Rand M. » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:03 pm

Desert Fox wrote:NYU will beat a UVa or UM student inside NYC outside they are pretty much peers.


I buy this. How about Columbia and Chicago outside of NY and Chicago?

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Kronk
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Re: Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships)

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:NYU will beat a UVa or UM student inside NYC outside they are pretty much peers.


Agreed. Unfortunately for UM and UVa a huge concentration of NLJ250 firms are in NYC (same with PI jobs). Also unfortunate for Mich and UVa is that NYC is Michigan's top market and UVa's second. Homecourt advantage, NYU.




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