Top Placing Classes (NLJ250 and Federal Clerkships) Forum

[oneforship]

I don't know why everyone is beating up on NYU as a result of these numbers.

Easy answer here. Because they're part of the UVa fanboy posse. Jaws things everyone in the world should ED to Virginia if they want to get in and one of them once said that "People inside the law community really don't care about rankings. I heard a professor once say that he wasn't impressed with Yale and thought UVA was the best school in the nation."

I really just don't see what makes NYU better than UVA unless you want to work in NYC. Not trolling here, this is my actual opinion.

Isn't half the country's white-shoe legal market in NYC?

Perhaps, but it's not the half I'm interested in working in. If I were, I'd go to NYU over UVA--if I had the option.

[oneforship]

I don't know why everyone is beating up on NYU as a result of these numbers.

Easy answer here. Because they're part of the UVa fanboy posse. Jaws things everyone in the world should ED to Virginia if they want to get in and one of them once said that "People inside the law community really don't care about rankings. I heard a professor once say that he wasn't impressed with Yale and thought UVA was the best school in the nation."

I really just don't see what makes NYU better than UVA unless you want to work in NYC. Not trolling here, this is my actual opinion.

Nothing, but when NYC is a huge market being better there makes it better overall.

Not necessarily. UM or UVA could outplace NYU in other markets at such a rate so as to make them equal. Whether or not that is true, I don't know. No one will every be able to tell, because I bet NYU students self select into the NYC market.

[Mulliganstew]

I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.

It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.

Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.

[Borhas]

I knew my SYH trolling was based in reality.

hah, vindicated

[RVP11]

Not necessarily. UM or UVA could outplace NYU in other markets at such a rate so as to make them equal. Whether or not that is true, I don't know. No one will every be able to tell, because I bet NYU students self select into the NYC market.

Yep. NYU students self-select into NYC because people who like NYC self-select into NYU.

I know maybe 2 people here who are dead set on going up to NYC, and tons that want DC, Texas, Florida, or California. Yet UVA manages to get almost as many people to NYC as to DC, strangely.

[Kohinoor]

Berkeley pretty far down there despite not being a NY feeder.

[09042014]

I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.

It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.

Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.

I would take that bet in real life. Over the internet really isn't going to work.

Irrelevant for job placement. Go ask IUB for their OCI list. It'll be embarrassing.

[RVP11]

Berkeley pretty far down there despite not being a NY feeder.

Cue IP/PI/California boutique discussion.

[Mulliganstew]

I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.

It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.

Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.

I would take that bet in real life. Over the internet really isn't going to work.

Irrelevant for job placement. Go ask IUB for their OCI list. It'll be embarrassing.

No doubt OCI sucked this year. I have to agree there.

[09042014]

It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.

Bet you 10 bucks IUB is ranked higher or the same than Illinois this year.

I would take that bet in real life. Over the internet really isn't going to work.

Irrelevant for job placement. Go ask IUB for their OCI list. It'll be embarrassing.

No doubt OCI sucked this year. I have to agree there.

OCI sucked everywhere. My point though was IUB doesn't carry out of Indiana, well if at all. Indiana is great for Indiana, but Indiana's law market isn't that big. IUB places worse in Chicago than Kent, Loyola, and DePaul.

[scribelaw]

The thing I find striking about these numbers is how broadly similar the job opportunities are across the T10. I think we're all just better off weighing what type of law we want to practice, financial and regional considerations, and personal preference. These numbers are within a few percentage points of each other.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I find it fairly encouraging that, in a terrible economy, people graduating at the median were getting well-paying jobs across the T10.

I bet if you looked across at UGs and other types of grad schools, the case is very different.

[Stringer Bell]

pwned is you at OCI. I think it's pretty obvious that NYU places better than both, even in '09--especially considering they put a significantly larger portion of their class into prestigious PI.

ITT we learn that "hard to get" = better.

[jmaan]

The thing I find striking about these numbers are how broadly similar the job opportunities are across the T10. I think we're all just better off weighing what type of law you want to practice, financial and regional considerations, and personal preference. These numbers are within a few percentage points of each other.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I find it fairly encouraging that, in a terrible economy, people graduating at the median were getting well-paying jobs across the T10.

I bet if you looked across at UGs and other types of grad schools, the case is very different.

agreed...i graduated top 10% from a t-2 university and i watch tv all day

[Mulliganstew]

OCI sucked everywhere. My point though was IUB doesn't carry out of Indiana, well if at all. Indiana is great for Indiana, but Indiana's law market isn't that big. IUB places worse in Chicago than Kent, Loyola, and DePaul.

That's assuming it's either Indiana or Chicago... Indiana places well throughout the midwest. I can guarantee you they place better than Loyola anywhere outside of Chicago.

[09042014]

OCI sucked everywhere. My point though was IUB doesn't carry out of Indiana, well if at all. Indiana is great for Indiana, but Indiana's law market isn't that big. IUB places worse in Chicago than Kent, Loyola, and DePaul.

That's assuming it's either Indiana or Chicago... Indiana places well throughout the midwest. I can guarantee you they place better than Loyola anywhere outside of Chicago.

Without a doubt.

[Kretzy]

I knew my SYH trolling was based in reality.

hah, vindicated

[AngryAvocado]

The thing I find striking about these numbers are how broadly similar the job opportunities are across the T10. I think we're all just better off weighing what type of law you want to practice, financial and regional considerations, and personal preference. These numbers are within a few percentage points of each other.

Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, but I find it fairly encouraging that, in a terrible economy, people graduating at the median were getting well-paying jobs across the T10.

I bet if you looked across at UGs and other types of grad schools, the case is very different.

agreed...i graduated top 10% from a t-2 university and i watch tv all day

So true. If you graduated top 10% from a T2 law school, you'd be watching cable.

Edit: I keed, I keed. I know he's probably already watching cable.

[Dick Whitman]

I fully expect Illinois to nose dive in 2010's rankings after all of the corruption in the application process from last year.

It might take a hit in the assessment scores. But they increased their GPA median. I doubt law firms will care when hiring grads.

Chicago firms will be shocked -- SHOCKED I say -- to hear of corruption in Illinois.

[Kronk]

pwned is you at OCI. I think it's pretty obvious that NYU places better than both, even in '09--especially considering they put a significantly larger portion of their class into prestigious PI.

ITT we learn that "hard to get" = better.

They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth

[TTT-LS]

.

[Kronk]

They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth

This may be true most of the time, but there's no way it is the case all of the time.

Even if you don't agree with me re: the above, you should at least agree that your rule doesn't apply in the individual context. Here's an example what I have in mind: I had offers from a number of firms after 2L OCI, including Williams & Connolly. Yet I chose to go to a different firm, one that is more or less universally thought to be "worse" than W&C. That conventional wisdom notwithstanding, the decision was unquestionably the right one for me, given my professional interests. The same kind of calculus comes up for people in the law school admissions, 2L SA, journal board, clerkship, and all kinds of other contexts.

We aren't really talking about personal interests ITT though. If you bring up something person, like I want to work for X._________ firm, then we could discuss which school would be best for that. We're discussing these schools in a general sense. Certain schools are "better" than others, just as certain jobs are "better" than others. Not for everyone, but for the large majority.

[TTT-LS]

.

[spritecan]

This has turned into a shit fest.

[Stringer Bell]

They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth

Yes. I understand how supply and demand works, but you have attached a very subjective standard now to say that a school is better just because a small percentage of the class is able to get a competitive job over a smaller percentage of another school. It's tough to get an ADA job in Alpine, Texas. If a St. Mary's grad beats out a few UT grads and a Duke grad for it, does that make St. Mary's a better school? If you want to say that NYU is a better school for PI, that's fine. But that is a separate animal from NYU being a better law school. We could take your argument a step further and say that Vermont is NU's peer because they pwn them placing in environmental law.

[Kronk]

They wouldn't be harder to get if they weren't more desirable. They wouldn't be more desirable unless they were in some way better. hth

Yes. I understand how supply and demand works, but you have attached a very subjective standard now to say that a school is better just because a small percentage of the class is able to get a competitive job over a smaller percentage of another school. It's tough to get an ADA job in Alpine, Texas. If a St. Mary's grad beats out a few UT grads and a Duke grad for it, does that make St. Mary's a better school? If you want to say that NYU is a better school for PI, that's fine. But that is a separate animal from NYU being a better law school. We could take your argument a step further and say that Vermont is NU's peer because they pwn them placing in environmental law.

Just curious, what metric would you like to use? Because NYU has a stronger student body than UVA, a better rated faculty, has placed into BigLaw better than UVA in every year except for one poll in 2009 (and in particular has an edge the more higher a firm is ranked by Vault). NYU also has more firms at OCI, including firms that don't even attend Virginia like WLRK. They also place about 7% more of their class into PI than UVa does, have a far better LRAP, and are ranked fifth as opposed to UVa's 10th. So, once you decide a metric on which to base which school is better, why don't we go from there?