UCLA vs. Georgetown?

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beef wellington
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby beef wellington » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:20 am

I've seen this debate on TLS before, and people generally come down in favor of GULC. I always wonder about this part from the FAQ though:

Ken wrote:Some have argued that the top 14 law schools are national law schools, having strong placement opportunities throughout the nation. However, the fact that most graduates of UCLA and Texas practice in California and Texas respectively is likely due to choice more than limitations.


Anyone wanna comment on that? That passage seems to be contradicted by some decent arguments in this thread.

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Mattalones
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Mattalones » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:21 am

voice of reason wrote:UCLA is a good school, but Georgetown grads have better job prospects.

One statistic I find informative regarding placement with elite employers is the percentage of graduates who got clerkships or jobs with NLJ250 firms. Here are those percentages from 2005 for the T14 and a few other schools, mostly in CA:

Yale 82
Harvard 75
Chicago 75
Stanford 73
Duke 73
Penn 70
Columbia 68
NYU 67
UVA 67
Cornell 66
Northwestern 59
Michigan 58
Berkeley 55
Georgetown 55

Vanderbilt 52
Texas 38
UCLA 37
Fordham 36
Emory 33
USC 27
UC Davis 22
UC Hastings 22
USF 8
Santa Clara 7
USD 7
Loyola-LA 7


Where did you find that data? It looks a bit low all around to me. I also can't tell if it is AT graduation data for WITHIN 9 MONTHS OF graduation data. I am just curious to know the source.

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Kronk
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Kronk » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:21 am

WLRK does OCIs at UCLA and not Georgetown in normal years (not sure about ITE).

postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:49 am

Kronk wrote:WLRK does OCIs at UCLA and not Georgetown in normal years (not sure about ITE).


Unless you are top 10% ITE, you won't get WLRK, so that's pretty irrelevant. GULC's OCI is one of the largest in the top 14 (if not the largest. I think they used to get close to 800 offices at OCI pre-recession, partly because they have so many students).

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Kronk
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Kronk » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:51 am

postitnotes wrote:
Kronk wrote:WLRK does OCIs at UCLA and not Georgetown in normal years (not sure about ITE).


Unless you are top 10% ITE, you won't get WLRK, so that's pretty irrelevant. GULC's OCI is one of the largest in the top 14 (if not the largest. I think they used to get close to 800 offices at OCI pre-recession, partly because they have so many students).


But GULC doesn't place much better than UCLA into BigLaw, so that's also irrelevant.

I'm just saying prestigious firms from all over the country OCI at UCLA. Even from New York. So I don't think it's not national. I think the problem is most people take the CA bar exam, which doesn't transfer to other states, so it is advantageous not to move.

postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:53 am

beef wellington wrote:I've seen this debate on TLS before, and people generally come down in favor of GULC. I always wonder about this part from the FAQ though:

Ken wrote:Some have argued that the top 14 law schools are national law schools, having strong placement opportunities throughout the nation. However, the fact that most graduates of UCLA and Texas practice in California and Texas respectively is likely due to choice more than limitations.


Anyone wanna comment on that? That passage seems to be contradicted by some decent arguments in this thread.


The passage is probably more applicable pre-recession. From what I've heard from 2L friends, mass mailing primary markets largely doesn't work now. (It works for some secondary markets.) If you want a big law job, you will probably have to get it at OCI. If you don't get big law, you're going to have to mass mail secondary markets to look for "midlaw" or possibly "shitlaw." So if you want "big law," it's very important to see what employers go to OCI.

postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:56 am

Kronk wrote:
postitnotes wrote:
Kronk wrote:WLRK does OCIs at UCLA and not Georgetown in normal years (not sure about ITE).


Unless you are top 10% ITE, you won't get WLRK, so that's pretty irrelevant. GULC's OCI is one of the largest in the top 14 (if not the largest. I think they used to get close to 800 offices at OCI pre-recession, partly because they have so many students).


But GULC doesn't place much better than UCLA into BigLaw, so that's also irrelevant.


Huh? I thought it used to place ~20% more of its class into big law pre-recession. Considering how large Georgetown's class is, that's pretty impressive.

I'm just saying prestigious firms from all over the country OCI at UCLA. Even from New York. So I don't think it's not national. I think the problem is most people take the CA bar exam, which doesn't transfer to other states, so it is advantageous not to move.


Do they still go to UCLA's OCI? A lot of things changed this past OCI.

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voice of reason
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby voice of reason » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:56 am

Mattalones wrote:
voice of reason wrote:UCLA is a good school, but Georgetown grads have better job prospects.

One statistic I find informative regarding placement with elite employers is the percentage of graduates who got clerkships or jobs with NLJ250 firms. Here are those percentages from 2005 for the T14 and a few other schools, mostly in CA:

Yale 82
Harvard 75
Chicago 75
Stanford 73
Duke 73
Penn 70
Columbia 68
NYU 67
UVA 67
Cornell 66
Northwestern 59
Michigan 58
Berkeley 55
Georgetown 55

Vanderbilt 52
Texas 38
UCLA 37
Fordham 36
Emory 33
USC 27
UC Davis 22
UC Hastings 22
USF 8
Santa Clara 7
USD 7
Loyola-LA 7


Where did you find that data? It looks a bit low all around to me. I also can't tell if it is AT graduation data for WITHIN 9 MONTHS OF graduation data. I am just curious to know the source.


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:02 am

One statistic I find informative regarding placement with elite employers is the percentage of graduates who got clerkships or jobs with NLJ250 firms.

Just wanted to comment that statistic does not include "clerkships." Those percentages only refer to NLJ 250 firm placement.

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voice of reason
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby voice of reason » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:14 am

postitnotes wrote:
One statistic I find informative regarding placement with elite employers is the percentage of graduates who got clerkships or jobs with NLJ250 firms.

Just wanted to comment that statistic does not include "clerkships." Those percentages only refer to NLJ 250 firm placement.


The percentages I posted are the sum of placements in clerkships and NLJ250 firms.

For example, if you look at the PDF I cited, you'll see Yale placed 33% in NLJ250 firms and 49% in clerkships (which are wildly atypical numbers). I took the sum by eyeballing the graphs, so I could be off by a point here and there.

postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:22 am

voice of reason wrote:
postitnotes wrote:
One statistic I find informative regarding placement with elite employers is the percentage of graduates who got clerkships or jobs with NLJ250 firms.

Just wanted to comment that statistic does not include "clerkships." Those percentages only refer to NLJ 250 firm placement.


The percentages I posted are the sum of placements in clerkships and NLJ250 firms.

For example, if you look at the PDF I cited, you'll see Yale placed 33% in NLJ250 firms and 49% in clerkships (which are wildly atypical numbers). I took the sum by eyeballing the graphs, so I could be off by a point here and there.


ahh ok, sorry, I thought some of the numbers looked off...but I'm myopic. :) because of the recession, a lot of the government and PI jobs are now even more competitive to get than biglaw.
Last edited by postitnotes on Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

UCLAtransfer
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby UCLAtransfer » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:24 am

2008 NLJ 250 Hiring

This doesn't include clerkships, but it is a little more current (although still pre-ITE)

Image


http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202428438260

postitnotes
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:32 am

Here's the most recent clerkship info (2009). viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75513. Georgetown still seems to have a heads up when you combine the two.

--ImageRemoved--

jtang11
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby jtang11 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:32 pm

sanpiero wrote:(plus LA sucks)


Could have fooled me as I was shoveling snow for a week in the DC metropolitan area.

fortissimo
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby fortissimo » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:13 pm

jtang11 wrote:
sanpiero wrote:(plus LA sucks)


Could have fooled me as I was shoveling snow for a week in the DC metropolitan area.


At least you weren't inadvertently smoking 2 packs a day...




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