UCLA vs. Georgetown?

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Robboooo
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UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Robboooo » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:24 pm

I need to decide: UCLA vs. Georgetown. I'm from the east coast and I think I'd like to work out here after school, but the atmosphere of the west definitely appeals to me (as does the sun, sand, and other fun stuff that California has to offer). That said, I do like DC also and G-town is a T14 school, but considering UCLA is 15 right now, not sure how much that matters, except that there is a financial crisis in California affecting their education system so...

I want to enjoy where I go to school for sure (made the mistake in undergrad of going to a good school in a crappy area), but at the same time I don't want to end up closing off opportunities after law school (such as working on the east coast).

Thoughts?

Thanks.

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cardinalandgold
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby cardinalandgold » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:25 pm

Any money at either school?

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tallboone
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby tallboone » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:29 pm

If you want to practice on the east coast, georgetown. if you want to go into government, georgetown. if you want to do entertainment/sports law, UCLA. if you want to practice in LA/So. Cal, UCLA or georgetown.

sfdreaming09
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby sfdreaming09 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:31 pm

[quote="tallboone"]If you want to practice on the east coast, georgetown. if you want to go into government, georgetown. if you want to do entertainment/sports law, UCLA. if you want to practice in LA/So. Cal, UCLA or georgetown.[/quote]

Really? Highly doubt GTown places better--or even equivalent to UCLA--in So Cal.

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tallboone
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby tallboone » Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:38 pm

georgetown does pretty well in the LA market, just because it has so many graduates.
http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/students/sullivan/law/data.htm

Before you say "the data is from 2005," i think it should still hold up as an approximation, and it's the most recent analysis, so there isn't really any better data out there on which to rely.

fortissimo
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:00 pm

Georgetown, provides much more mobility. UCLA is going to cost you something like 50k first year, and by your 3L year, even if you get in-state residency, it will still cost over 50k. It'll be harder getting back to the east coast with ucla than it is working on the west coast with Georgetown.

Oh, and, DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LA.

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tallboone
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby tallboone » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:01 pm

fortissimo wrote:
DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LA.


That's just like, your opinion, man.

fortissimo
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby fortissimo » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:02 pm

edit
Last edited by fortissimo on Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sfdreaming09
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby sfdreaming09 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:04 pm

fortissimo wrote:
tallboone wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LA.


That's just like, your opinion, man.


I lived in CA for almost a decade...LA is disgusting. But yes, my opinion.


+1. Awful, awful city.

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tallboone
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby tallboone » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:07 pm

tallboone wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LA.


That's just like, your opinion, man.


Well, LA is good enough for The Dude.

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Robboooo
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Robboooo » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:08 pm

cardinalandgold wrote:Any money at either school?



Don't think so, though guess I could still find out, but I'm assuming no.

savesthedayajb
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby savesthedayajb » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:11 pm

sfdreaming09 wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
tallboone wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LA.


That's just like, your opinion, man.


I lived in CA for almost a decade...LA is disgusting. But yes, my opinion.


+1. Awful, awful city.


Westside - traffic would beat out almost any other city. Everywhere else I wholeheartedly agree with the above.

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tallboone
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby tallboone » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:13 pm

In all seriousness, I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to spend a few years on the west coast for law school, even if you plan on going back to the east coast. You should visit UCLA's admitted student day and speak to someone in the career office about what exactly you think you want do with your degree and where you want to do it. I know UCLA has been doing a much better job in recent years of placing people outside of Southern California because they really are trying to become a "national" school. That being said, it will never be as strong in DC/NY as Georgetown.

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sanpiero
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby sanpiero » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:14 pm

GULC. IMO, it's easier to get to the left coast from GULC than to the right coast from UCLA. The only way I'd recommend UCLA is if you want sports/ent. law, as PP said. And you will not have time to enjoy the beach while at UCLA, so that probably shouldn't be a serious consideration. (plus LA sucks)

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apper123
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby apper123 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:40 pm

You guys need to focus more on the raw data about a school and its reputation than just the rankings. If GULC slips to 16 next year and UCLA jumps to 14, do you think UCLA is suddenly going to have more national mobility while GULC shuts down? GULC, regardless of rank, is and always will be a national school with great mobility and an outstanding reputation. I think ceteris paribus it's GULC > UCLA, but if you want to stay on the west coast I could see either.

Disclaimer: I am just a 1L and not in the legal market currently.

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Veyron
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Veyron » Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:40 pm

UCLA will actualy be moar expensive after tuition hikes and GULC places better everywhere outside of SoCal anyway.

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Dignan
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Dignan » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:39 pm

If you want to practice in Southern California, or if you are interested in academia, then UCLA. For almost everything else, GULC is the best answer, I think.

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Robboooo
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Robboooo » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:53 pm

I know Georgetown is the better school with the better reputation and the better chance of getting me a job on the east coast. I guess what I was wondering more was whether all of that is SO much better than UCLA that it would actually be a bad idea to go out west and enjoy the west coast for the three years of law school? And also as a corollary, since I've only visited LA and haven't gone to school there, is going to school in a warm sunny place that much better or do some of the other cons (e.g. traffic) cancel that out?

I'm trying to consider everything that could affect my experience - I don't want to be a lawyer 10 years from now on the east coast or the west coast thinking "What if I'd gone to...". I want to have the best possible all around experience in law school, while still being able to come away with good opportunities that allow for a good post-graduate all around career experience.

I'm also trying to find out info and facts that I might not have considered (for instance, I only found out a couple days ago that where you go to school actually has an effect on where you work - I'd previously assumed it was like undergrad, you can go anywhere you want after you graduate). Thanks for all the info.

crm
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby crm » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:03 pm

Robboooo wrote:I know Georgetown is the better school with the better reputation and the better chance of getting me a job on the east coast. I guess what I was wondering more was whether all of that is SO much better than UCLA that it would actually be a bad idea to go out west and enjoy the west coast for the three years of law school? And also as a corollary, since I've only visited LA and haven't gone to school there, is going to school in a warm sunny place that much better or do some of the other cons (e.g. traffic) cancel that out?

I'm trying to consider everything that could affect my experience - I don't want to be a lawyer 10 years from now on the east coast or the west coast thinking "What if I'd gone to...". I want to have the best possible all around experience in law school, while still being able to come away with good opportunities that allow for a good post-graduate all around career experience.

I'm also trying to find out info and facts that I might not have considered (for instance, I only found out a couple days ago that where you go to school actually has an effect on where you work - I'd previously assumed it was like undergrad, you can go anywhere you want after you graduate). Thanks for all the info.


In terms of experience wise, UCLA is a great place if you would want a scene somewhat typical of UG. I've had season tickets to their football games for the past ten years and don't really remember the past 5...and the west coast is really nice in terms of weather and everything but I dont know if it will be exactly what you want if you want to be on the east coast. I went to UG in Santa Barbara and believe me the weather is a definite plus. But, that being said, even though I am on the beach, I rarely go/see it. You have to kind of weigh the options of whether or not other factors (i.e. weather, experience) will get you the best job after and whether it is worth it. Personally, I would probably choose UCLA even though I hate LA and I have heard bad things about Georgetown in terms of experience, but its really a matter of what you feel is better for you and what the most important factors are to you. Employment prospects for law school graduates are directly related to where you went to school and the rep of that school. i.e. you would have NO problem getting a good job coming out of UCLA in LA or throughout the west coast I'm sure. Not sure about the east coast though, because I've been in socal my entire life. Just my two cents, good luck

UCInfo
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby UCInfo » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:02 pm

You can't go wrong either way, in my opinion. As you already know, Georgetown will probably give you more options on the East Coast. But I think UCLA doesn't get enough credit in general.

Consider that UCLA will be $50,545 for non-residents in 2010-11. Not sure what Georgetown will be in 10-11, but it's $43,650 now and I can't see it going up $7K in one year.

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big_blue79
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby big_blue79 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:10 pm

tallboone wrote:
tallboone wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
DC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LA.


That's just like, your opinion, man.


Well, LA is good enough for The Dude.


The Dude abides.

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Dignan
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Dignan » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:45 am

Robboooo wrote:I know Georgetown is the better school with the better reputation and the better chance of getting me a job on the east coast. I guess what I was wondering more was whether all of that is SO much better than UCLA that it would actually be a bad idea to go out west and enjoy the west coast for the three years of law school?

Is Georgetown's reputation "SO much better" than UCLA's? No. But is it somewhat better? Yes. Probably the best measure we have for reputation in the legal community are the judge/lawyer scores that are part of the USNWR ranking. There are problems with these measurements, but they're the best data that we've got. This breakdown for 2010 includes the judge/lawyer scores (the fifth column from the left):

http://www.prelawhandbook.com/2010_top_50

By the this measure, Georgetown is ahead of Northwestern and Cornell, tied with Duke and Penn, and just barely behind NYU and Berkeley. Meanwhile, UCLA's score is tied with schools like Emory, Iowa, and GW. Georgetown's judge/lawyer score is closer to Yale than UCLA's score is to Georgetown.

Now, I don't think that general reputation within the national legal community should necessarily be the deciding factor in where one goes to law school. But Georgetown's reputation is quite a bit better than UCLA's. If one of your goals is obtaining a degree with some mobility, then I would seriously consider the reputation advantage of Georgetown.

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Kronk
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Kronk » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:49 am

UCLA is fairly mobile. I know tons of graduates from all over the nation that work in Colorado and most of them didn't go to DU or CU. Also, none of them went to T14 schools. I don't think UCLA would be that much worse, you just would have to do some leg work to get interviews that would normally be on campus or a drive away.

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Dignan
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby Dignan » Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:54 am

Kronk wrote:UCLA is fairly mobile. I know tons of graduates from all over the nation that work in Colorado and most of them didn't go to DU or CU. Also, none of them went to T14 schools. I don't think UCLA would be that much worse, you just would have to do some leg work to get interviews that would normally be on campus or a drive away.

I agree that a UCLA grad has some mobility. So do grads of BU and GW. But it's less mobility than a GULC grad has, and I think the difference between GULC and UCLA is more than what is suggested by the one-place difference in the overall USNWR rankings.

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voice of reason
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Re: UCLA vs. Georgetown?

Postby voice of reason » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:07 am

UCLA is a good school, but Georgetown grads have better job prospects.

One statistic I find informative regarding placement with elite employers is the percentage of graduates who got clerkships or jobs with NLJ250 firms. Here are those percentages from 2005 for the T14 and a few other schools, mostly in CA:

Yale 82
Harvard 75
Chicago 75
Stanford 73
Duke 73
Penn 70
Columbia 68
NYU 67
UVA 67
Cornell 66
Northwestern 59
Michigan 58
Berkeley 55
Georgetown 55

Vanderbilt 52
Texas 38
UCLA 37
Fordham 36
Emory 33
USC 27
UC Davis 22
UC Hastings 22
USF 8
Santa Clara 7
USD 7
Loyola-LA 7




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