Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby AngryAvocado » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:34 am

postitnotes wrote:
Kronk wrote:Chicago's is 26. Penn's is 28. Duke is 20. Northwestern is 27.


With the exception of Duke, the other schools have similar yields. Michigan, Virginia, and Berkeley have almost identical yields. I think Chicago's slightly lower yield is partly because it admits more cross admits with Columbia and NYU and loses out to them.


Exactly. Selectivity doesn't mean much unless students are choosing you over peer schools. Looking at Berkeley's LSAT medians and such, I'm guessing they don't have as much overlap as CCN & MVP have between one another.

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Dignan
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby Dignan » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:35 am

Kronk wrote:
Dignan wrote:
Kronk wrote:I think Berkeley just benefits from being the only T14 outside of Stanford that is in the West.

I agree, but isn't that a factor in Berkeley's favor? I mean, Berkeley is easily the second best law school west of the Mississippi, and its graduates benefit from that reputation. A peer school like Penn, on other hand, is the maybe the fifth best law school in its general geographic area, getting outcompeted by YHCC.


I meant that is why it has such a high yield. Not about the school in general.

Got it. I misunderstood you. Yes, I agree about the yield. It also helps their selectivity, since it seems like everyone who graduates from college in California--no matter how bad their numbers--applies to Berkeley.

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los blancos
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby los blancos » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:36 am

postitnotes wrote:
los blancos wrote: Yeah, and the overall experience is so different, too. Chicago is probably my next realistic choice after Berkeley, but it's just so far behind because I think I'd have a strong love/hate relationship (love amazing career prospects/hate super competitive environment) with it.


Keep in mind that it is competitive at every top 14 law school, especially ITE when you need H and HHs to have a real shot at jobs out of Berk. A semester of P, P, H is around median at Berk, so to stand out you need multiple Hs.


Oh, I know. And I get that P, P, H is probably not a great place to be ITE as compared to the Chicago median. But I think the fact that the bottom 60% get Ps takes a lot of pressure off of your shoulders.

postitnotes
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:37 am

Dignan wrote:I agree, but isn't that a factor in Berkeley's favor? I mean, Berkeley is easily the second best law school west of the Mississippi, and its graduates benefit from that reputation. A peer school like Penn, on other hand, is the maybe the fifth best law school in its general geographic area, getting outcompeted by YHCC.


There's both sides to the picture. There are only two real legal markets in the West - LA, and SF, which are relatively tiny (especially SF). On the other hand, all of the big markets are on the Eastern half of the country - NYC, Chicago, DC. You get the big transnational work on the East Coast. You also have ATL, Houston, Dallas. There's just a lot more jobs to go around for grads in the Eastern half.

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los blancos
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby los blancos » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:38 am

Kronk wrote:Despite it's reputation, I doubt it is any more competitive than a bunch of law schools in the T14. I've heard HYSB (no grades) and NYU (too much fun) are pretty lax, but I bet MVPDCNG are pretty cutthroat. Columbia is just as bad as Chicago too.

Dresden and Doyle both said that the "academic rigor" wasn't that bad. Even if it is, when they're putting 75% of their class into NLJ250 firms and 70% into Vault 100, who cares what rank you are?



I've heard that Mich and Duke are relatively relaxed. But that was probably pre-recession.

If Berk dings me, Chicago would probably get the binding commitment LOCI once I got the chance to reassemble my heart and put one together.

postitnotes
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby postitnotes » Sat Feb 20, 2010 2:46 am

AngryAvocado wrote:
postitnotes wrote:
Kronk wrote:Chicago's is 26. Penn's is 28. Duke is 20. Northwestern is 27.


With the exception of Duke, the other schools have similar yields. Michigan, Virginia, and Berkeley have almost identical yields. I think Chicago's slightly lower yield is partly because it admits more cross admits with Columbia and NYU and loses out to them.


Exactly. Selectivity doesn't mean much unless students are choosing you over peer schools. Looking at Berkeley's LSAT medians and such, I'm guessing they don't have as much overlap as CCN & MVP have between one another.


Berkeley probably gets more high GPA- very low LSAT applicants because they think they have a shot whereas they opt out of applying to the rest of the top 14 because of their low LSAT. If Berk is the only top 14 to accept them, they will matriculate.

Berkeley's yield rate is the same as their peers (Michigan's and Virginia's), and only slightly higher than CCN's, but I think that for the latter it's because they tend to accept more HYS admits. MVP (looking at LSAT interquartiles) probably does accept more CCN admits than Berk does, particularly NYU admits (NYU is probably the easiest CCN to get into).

legends159
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby legends159 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:41 am

Kronk wrote:I am considering (and leaning towards) taking Berkeley over Chicago and NYU even if they are all at sticker. Also considering taking Berkeley at sticker over UVA with 90,000. Berkeley does very well in California BigLaw (and also gets OCIs from every top firm including Cravath and WLRK), academia, and PI.


Cravath doesn't do OCI at Boalt.
Last edited by legends159 on Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Kronk
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby Kronk » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:41 am

legends159 wrote:
Kronk wrote:I am considering (and leaning towards) taking Berkeley over Chicago and NYU even if they are all at sticker. Also considering taking Berkeley at sticker over UVA with 90,000. Berkeley does very well in California BigLaw (and also gets OCIs from every top firm including Cravath and WLRK), academia, and PI.


Cravath and WLRK don't do OCI at Boalt.



Every year except last year they have. hth

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Kronk
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby Kronk » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:43 am

--LinkRemoved--

Click "quick search," type "Wachtell" scroll halfway down the page and it lists the schools that they went to for OCI in 2008.

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Kronk
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby Kronk » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:52 am

Same goes for Cravath, btw. I don't know about 2009 but you can search for Cravath and see that they did OCI at Boalt in 2008.

sfdreaming09
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby sfdreaming09 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:11 pm

postitnotes wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:
los blancos wrote:
Na_Swatch wrote:Yeah, Berkeley seems to be doing straight dings that are more like YP this year... just rejected with 172+, 3.90+ recently


Berkeley doesn't YP. They've consistently had one of the lowest acceptance rates in the country in recent cycles. They care about a lot more than numbers.


They also have by far the lowest LSAT ranges for a top 8 school. There is probably some selectivity in regards to applicants who most likely won't get into other T6's so that they will be much more likely to matriculate at Berkeley. Thus not a direct YP of high numbers, but more of an admissions bent towards high GPA, lower LSAT type applicants.

I also didn't do the tailored PS for Berkeley so that couldn't have helped.


+1. Berkeley has the lowest LSAT interquartile range and median out of every top 14 school, except for Cornell. Most cross admits seem to choose CCN and I know a quite a few people at my school MVP who came here instead, partly because our school offered more money and partly because of where they wanted to work. Berkeley's yield rate (1/3) is about the same as every other school in the top 10 outside of HYS, so I can see it YP-ing those with high LSATs and high GPAs.


This stuff is just wrong. Berkeley doesn't accept high GPA/lower-sh LSAT in an attempt to pseudo-YP.

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booboo
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby booboo » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:22 pm

IMO, higher numbers that are later applicants (I would say past December) without an explicit indication of why they are attracted to Berkeley will get the ding. This really has nothing to do with yield. Berkeley is known to love early applicants, and late applications without expressed love don't usually stand a good chance.

The people that cure cancer do have a chance, though.

spritecan
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Re: Is Berkeley worth the new COA?

Postby spritecan » Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:20 am

Fevsi wrote:
spritecan wrote:
cavebat2000 wrote:171 and 3.9, rejected outright. "Safety" probably looks more like 3.9+ 174+

Yield protection? I have similar numbers and got in pretty quickly. I am a resident though. I am hoping Columbia or NYU pull through. Columbia has been my dream since high school.


I second that CN>B (having received that semi-ding today called FR), but I am just curious why C would be your dream school, but not NYU? I thought they are pretty much twins? I mean, they are not like H/S, where one is small, suburban and sunny, and the other huge, urban and cold. Is it the Ivy sticker? The campus? Or something else? I am asking because they look exactly the same to me except stuff like neighborhood, "atmosphere" etc. I thought though these would be things in "like more" category, not "dream" category. Care to elaborate?


Probably because I was rejected for undergrad and it'd feel really good to get into Columbia for law school. I got into Berkeley and NYU for undergrad so acceptances to these schools don't mean as much to me. As of now, I prefer all of CCN to B (with Columbia ahead of the others), and since I want to work in NYC I'm preferring MVP over B as well. I am still waiting on CCN and some of MVP though.




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