Is Georgetown really that bad?

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spritecan
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Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby spritecan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:21 am

I am looking at Georgetown among other schools and before I used TLS I was pretty excited to get in. But after reading numerous threads bashing it, it seems as if I shouldn't even consider it. Are the employment prospects really that much worse at Georgetown than at other top 14 schools?

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mpasi
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby mpasi » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:41 am

I think this should be one of those times when common sense comes into play and you ignore the moronic drivel in front of you. By moronic drivel, I'm talking about the people who are "HYS or bust!" I've been following this forum off and on since 2007, and that is the one thing that's never changed. Georgetown is in the top 20 schools in the country...you'll get an amazing education there, and decent consideration for jobs. Besides, I'd be less concerned with a school's rank than I would be with what kind of curriculum it had to offer.

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Dignan
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby Dignan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:50 am

spritecan wrote:I am looking at Georgetown among other schools and before I used TLS I was pretty excited to get in. But after reading numerous threads bashing it, it seems as if I shouldn't even consider it. Are the employment prospects really that much worse at Georgetown than at other top 14 schools?

The short answer is, no, Georgetown is not much worse than the other schools in the lower part of the T14.

Georgetown has a couple of things working against it. First, it's big; there are 650 students. Second, it's located in a very competitive market. A lot of law schools grads--including those from other schools in the T10--want to work in appellate litigation in DC.

But before you take the absurd step of excluding Georgetown from consideration because of ignorant bashing on TLS, consider a couple of things. First, Georgetown's lawyer/judge ratings are quite good; they're better than those of Northwestern and Cornell (and way better than those of the schools ranked from 15th to 20th). You'll have a little more mobility with a Georgetown degree than you will at some of the other lower T14 schools. Second, find any V100 firm that is located in DC and start browsing through the attorney bios. GULC grads are everywhere.

Like most of the schools in the lower T14, you'll have to finish above the median in your class to have a good shot at a big law job in this economy. Admission to GULC does not equal an automatic ticket to a great job. But it's silly to treat GULC like it deserves to be ranked 30th or something; it's a well-regarded school that will give you a chance at some exciting opportunities.
Last edited by Dignan on Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby NU_Jet55 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:50 am

mpasi wrote:I think this should be one of those times when common sense comes into play and you ignore the moronic drivel in front of you. By moronic drivel, I'm talking about the people who are "HYS or bust!" I've been following this forum off and on since 2007, and that is the one thing that's never changed. Georgetown is in the top 20 schools in the country...you'll get an amazing education there, and decent consideration for jobs. Besides, I'd be less concerned with a school's rank than I would be with what kind of curriculum it had to offer.


TITCR

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SteelReserve
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby SteelReserve » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:56 am

you'll get an amazing education there


Frankly, that statement weakened the validity of anything else you said. All law schools use the same curriculum and the Socratic Method for first year classes. Anyone with law school experience can affirm that statement. Please do not think any law school gives a better education than any other. Every school follows Harvard's long-entrenched Socratic method. You display only 0L/1L ignorance when you say Georgetown offers a 'better education' than any other ABA accredited law school.

In any case, the value of Georgetown, like any T14, is not the "education"... it's the job prospects. Even in a shitty economy, Georgetown is a good school.

The only true question is whether it is worth the 150k in tuition. This, I leave to the OP to decide. In a good year, 50% of Georgetown's 2Ls would line up a biglaw offer, which justified the tuition. In this economy, the number is significantly less.

Decide what you want to do with your life. Is corporate/transactional law your goal? Then Georgetown is still probably a decent choice, though it is the bottom of the barrel in terms of T14 job opportunities. If any other type of law is your goal, such as prosecution, crim defense, injury, family...there's no real reason to pay that kind of money for your legal education.


Good luck and all the best.

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lebob
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby lebob » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:58 am

I've heard that Georgetown has the UC-style "big school" feel to it. Because it's so huge, advisors and counselors don't really baby you or guide you by the hand --- you're kind of "on your own" and it's easy to be lost among the crowd.

It's why a 3L at GTown is advising me to take small private schools, even suggesting USC over UCLA because these smaller private schools tend to take better care of their students.

Of course if you make the upper ranks of your class then this shouldn't matter as much, but you get what i'm saying.

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rayiner
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby rayiner » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:04 am

The only true question is whether it is worth the 150k in tuition. This, I leave to the OP to decide. In a good year, 50% of Georgetown's 2Ls would line up a biglaw offer, which justified the tuition. In this economy, the number is significantly less.


In a good year, the number was more like 70-80%.

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mpasi
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby mpasi » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:05 am

SteelReserve wrote:you'll get an amazing education there



I was speaking to the quality of the courses/instructors, and you know it. Sure, you get out of it what you put into it, but there's going to be a disparity between Contracts at GULC is and Contracts at Oklahoma City. If there were no difference, HYS grads wouldn't be preferred over kids coming from lower-ranked schools. Silly rabbit.
Last edited by mpasi on Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Dignan
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby Dignan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:05 am

lebob wrote:I've heard that Georgetown has the UC-style "big school" feel to it. Because it's so huge, advisors and counselors don't really baby you or guide you by the hand --- you're kind of "on your own" and it's easy to be lost among the crowd.

This is a strange comment. When you write "UC," do you mean University of California? UCB has about 270 students per class; UCLA has about 300. These numbers are significantly lower than those of T6 private schools like Harvard, Columbia, and NYU. I don't think of the top UC law schools as having large class sizes.

spritecan
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby spritecan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:11 am

Dignan wrote:
lebob wrote:I've heard that Georgetown has the UC-style "big school" feel to it. Because it's so huge, advisors and counselors don't really baby you or guide you by the hand --- you're kind of "on your own" and it's easy to be lost among the crowd.

This is a strange comment. When you write "UC," do you mean University of California? UCB has about 270 students per class; UCLA has about 300. These numbers are significantly lower than those of T6 private schools like Harvard, Columbia, and NYU. I don't think of the top UC law schools as having large class sizes.


Maybe he meant the undergrad programs? Funnily enough I went to one of the flagship UCs for college, so I know what he is talking about regarding the "big school" feel. I do not want that experience again, but I also do not want a small, suffocating environment.

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Does anyone know how Georgetown's OCI went? I am less concerned with curriculum, since I figure the top 14 schools will all have similar curriculum, as I am with having a job after graduating.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby SteelReserve » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:12 am

I was speaking to the quality of the courses/instructors, and you know it. Sure, you get out of it what you put into it, but there's going to be a disparity between Contracts at GULC is and Contracts at Oklahoma City. If there were no difference, HYS grads wouldn't be preferred over kids coming from lower-ranked schools. Silly rabbit.


I honestly, truly, don't know it. I honestly, truly, find little value in the Socratic method. I will let you decide when you are through with the 1L curriculum. Silly Rabbit.

Harvard 2Ls are desired because they went to Harvard; not because they received a 'better' education. Best of luck.

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Dignan
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby Dignan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:16 am

spritecan wrote:
Dignan wrote:
lebob wrote:I've heard that Georgetown has the UC-style "big school" feel to it. Because it's so huge, advisors and counselors don't really baby you or guide you by the hand --- you're kind of "on your own" and it's easy to be lost among the crowd.

This is a strange comment. When you write "UC," do you mean University of California? UCB has about 270 students per class; UCLA has about 300. These numbers are significantly lower than those of T6 private schools like Harvard, Columbia, and NYU. I don't think of the top UC law schools as having large class sizes.


Maybe he meant the undergrad programs?

That would be even stranger though, as I think that GULC is the only top law school that has its own campus. I mean, if you're talking about the law school population + the undergrad population, then, true, UCB and UCLA are huge. But, by the same standard, GULC is tiny because you only have law students around.

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rayiner
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby rayiner » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:18 am

Dignan wrote:
spritecan wrote:
Dignan wrote:
lebob wrote:I've heard that Georgetown has the UC-style "big school" feel to it. Because it's so huge, advisors and counselors don't really baby you or guide you by the hand --- you're kind of "on your own" and it's easy to be lost among the crowd.

This is a strange comment. When you write "UC," do you mean University of California? UCB has about 270 students per class; UCLA has about 300. These numbers are significantly lower than those of T6 private schools like Harvard, Columbia, and NYU. I don't think of the top UC law schools as having large class sizes.


Maybe he meant the undergrad programs?

That would be even stranger though, as I think that GULC is the only top law school that has its own campus. I mean, if you're talking about the law school population + the undergrad population, then, true, UCB and UCLA are huge. But, by the same standard, GULC is tiny because you only have law students around.


Blatant anti-NU trolling?

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EdmundBurke23
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby EdmundBurke23 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:18 am

I pretty much ignore the anti-GULC trolling on TLS. But the greatest deterrant for me (in accepting an offer from GULC) would be the fact that my Super Duper Christian cousin of mine plans on brow-beating me into living with her and her super duper pastor Christian husband, and to spend my summers going on missionary trips in Guatemala.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the fact that she lives in D.C.
Last edited by EdmundBurke23 on Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dignan
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby Dignan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:19 am

rayiner wrote:
Dignan wrote:That would be even stranger though, as I think that GULC is the only top law school that has its own campus. I mean, if you're talking about the law school population + the undergrad population, then, true, UCB and UCLA are huge. But, by the same standard, GULC is tiny because you only have law students around.


Blatant anti-NU trolling?

Doh! No, just carelessness on my part. I like NU, actually.

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rayiner
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby rayiner » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:21 am

Dignan wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Dignan wrote:That would be even stranger though, as I think that GULC is the only top law school that has its own campus. I mean, if you're talking about the law school population + the undergrad population, then, true, UCB and UCLA are huge. But, by the same standard, GULC is tiny because you only have law students around.


Blatant anti-NU trolling?

Doh! No, just carelessness on my part. I like NU, actually.


I'm teasing lol.

galahad85
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby galahad85 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:38 am

.
Last edited by galahad85 on Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Dignan
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby Dignan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:12 pm

galahad85 wrote:(although on a side note, there are actually 580 students at GULC, not 650 - don't know why that number keeps getting thrown around here)

I think the 650 number gets thrown around because it's substantially accurate. If anything, it's a little low. According to the ABA, GULC has 1,990 students:

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... spx?sid=54

I think what might be throwing you is that GULC admits approximately 100 transfer students every year (which is way more than any other school accepts). So it's possible that GULC admits 580 1Ls, but then the class size grows to 660-700 students for the second and third years.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby NU_Jet55 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:14 pm

Don't forget about the part timers...

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Dignan
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby Dignan » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:15 pm

NU_Jet55 wrote:Don't forget about the part timers...

The figures I quoted include the part timers.

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nealric
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby nealric » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:17 pm

It's why a 3L at GTown is advising me to take small private schools, even suggesting USC over UCLA because these smaller private schools tend to take better care of their students.


I'm a 3L at GTown as well, and I think that's absolutely crazy. My guess is there was some individualized grievance behind that advice.

I think GTown takes great care of its students. In fact, a friend of mine here who attended an ivy undergrad talks about how he won't be sending a penny to his undergrad, but would be happy to donate to GTown. He feels he was treated much better by the administration.

I really haven't seen much in the way of disadvantages because of size. Picking classes is easy- I've never not gotten into a class I wanted to take. The size means that there is more to choose from as well.

As far as OCI: I don't think anybody knows the full story. It was bad this year, but it was bad everywhere. I think OCI two years from now will be very different from both 2007 and 2009- kind of its own animal as firms adapt to the new reality. One thing that's really nice is that almost every firm comes. You could literally look at the V100 and pick (almost) any of them to interview at. Few other schools get such a wide breadth.

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JCougar
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby JCougar » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:19 pm

LOL. Only on TLS.

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holydonkey
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby holydonkey » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:22 pm

Georgetown is the best Law Center in the world. Beats University of Houston Law Center by at least one Law Center. Law Center.

09042014
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:25 pm

rayiner wrote:
Dignan wrote:
spritecan wrote:
Dignan wrote:Maybe he meant the undergrad programs?

That would be even stranger though, as I think that GULC is the only top law school that has its own campus. I mean, if you're talking about the law school population + the undergrad population, then, true, UCB and UCLA are huge. But, by the same standard, GULC is tiny because you only have law students around.


Blatant anti-NU trolling?


Blatant anti-Feinberg trolling.

09042014
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Re: Is Georgetown really that bad?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:28 pm

Georgetown gets screwed because it places in a competitive market, and has a huge class size. If it had Cornells class size it would probably place about as well.

No one should be ashamed of going to GULC, it is the best nont13 law school.




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