Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
pennstatepride
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby pennstatepride » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:59 pm

stratocophic wrote:
NayBoer wrote:GW is also going to get trashed for not owning a secondary market. Minn owns MSP and WUSTL owns STL. UIUC, Fordham and GWU are all #3 in primary markets.


Exactly. Where do you fall back to when your school's biggest market isn't available? Maybe GW places OK in NYC, but Columbia>=HYS>CN>T14>Fordham>BC/BU>=GW. If you can't get into your own market easily with your class rank, you're not going to fare well in NYC picking up the scraps.

Plus, GW then competes with Vandy, WashU, Emory, and all the rest of the T15-30 schools looking to reach for NYC. Not the greatest prospects for any of those schools for that reach outside of the top x%.


Maybe I'm just biased b/c I was not top 35% and found it easy to get a job outside of DC.

User avatar
HJO
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby HJO » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:00 pm

pennstatepride wrote:
HJO wrote:
GW has a 167 LSAT median, fyi.


LSN has it at a 165, I can't find it on GW site.


That is what the school is reporting as the 1L median for this year.


Word. It is 167. I didn't read carefully on LSN.

User avatar
stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:01 pm

NayBoer wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:
GULC:3.7-168

GW: 3.6-165

Not almost identical.

Harvard 3.86-172

Are gulc and harvard almost identical?


GW has a 167 LSAT median, fyi.
That was old data, maybe.

GULC is 170. GW is 167.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA5244.pdf
http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA5246.pdf


Thus making 25% GTown = median GW. If we're to believe the LSAC, that means there's a statistically significant difference between the bottom of the class at GTown and the middle of the class at GW. The 75% difference is even higher.

Edit: And that ignores PT.
Last edited by stratocophic on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:02 pm

dood wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
GULC:3.7-168

GW: 3.6-165

Not almost identical.

Harvard 3.86-172

Are gulc and harvard almost identical?



Um actually yes. I just read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell and one of the studies he did was to compare lawyers and LSAT scores. The results were that LSAT score DOES matter, but only up to to a certain point...I think around like 165. From that point on EVERY STUDENT had an equal chance of "success" in terms of pure intelligence, but the only differentiating factor was how much time and effort the students put in ("the 10,000 hour rule" <- just google it if you're curious).


Not peer reviewed = trash.

td6624
Posts: 551
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:45 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby td6624 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:04 pm

I didn't even apply to Georgetown, but hypothetically, had I applied and gotten in (I am not assuming I would have), I don't think I'd take it over GW with the money GW offered.

But maybe I'm just trying to get away from even the slightest whiff of Catholicism. Whoooo knows. My worthless $0.02.

User avatar
pennstatepride
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby pennstatepride » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:05 pm

stratocophic wrote:
NayBoer wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:
GULC:3.7-168

GW: 3.6-165

Not almost identical.

Harvard 3.86-172

Are gulc and harvard almost identical?


GW has a 167 LSAT median, fyi.
That was old data, maybe.

GULC is 170. GW is 167.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA5244.pdf
http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA5246.pdf


Thus making 25% GTown = median GW. If we're to believe the LSAC, that means there's a statistically significant difference between the bottom of the class at GTown and the middle of the class at GW. The 75% difference is even higher.

Edit: And that ignores PT.


My argument was never that GW>GULC; however, I am standing behind my claim that the schools are similar; too similar to have a great amount of hate towards GW in comparison to GULC.

User avatar
HJO
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby HJO » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:07 pm

dood wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
GULC:3.7-168

GW: 3.6-165

Not almost identical.

Harvard 3.86-172

Are gulc and harvard almost identical?



Um actually yes. I just read Outliers by Malcom Gladwell and one of the studies he did was to compare lawyers and LSAT scores. The results were that LSAT score DOES matter, but only up to to a certain point...I think around like 165. From that point on EVERY STUDENT had an equal chance of "success" in terms of pure intelligence, but the only differentiating factor was how much time and effort the students put in ("the 10,000 hour rule" <- just google it if you're curious).


[strike]redacted.[/strike]

edit: REDACTED!
Last edited by HJO on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
pennstatepride
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby pennstatepride » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:07 pm

BTW, I feel like a nerd having an argument about schools,during school hours, on an online forum about schools.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby rayiner » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:07 pm

stratocophic wrote:Thus making 25% GTown = median GW. If we're to believe the LSAC, that means there's a statistically significant difference between the bottom of the class at GTown and the middle of the class at GW. The 75% difference is even higher.

Edit: And that ignores PT.


According to the very latest data, GULC is at 168-172. That puts their 25th at GW's 75th.

User avatar
HJO
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby HJO » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:09 pm

rayiner wrote:
stratocophic wrote:Thus making 25% GTown = median GW. If we're to believe the LSAC, that means there's a statistically significant difference between the bottom of the class at GTown and the middle of the class at GW. The 75% difference is even higher.

Edit: And that ignores PT.


According to the very latest data, GULC is at 168-172. That puts their 25th at GW's 75th.


*picks fight

the best students at GW are the worst students at GULC.

insidethetwenty
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby insidethetwenty » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:10 pm

pennstatepride wrote:My argument was never that GW>GULC; however, I am standing behind my claim that the schools are similar; too similar to have a great amount of hate towards GW in comparison to GULC.


I think the hate actually stems from the suggestion that GW is almost equal to GULC. Taking GW on its own doesn't generate nearly as much hate as when somebody says "GW is almost equal to GULC/Cornell".

User avatar
HJO
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby HJO » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:10 pm

insidethetwenty wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:My argument was never that GW>GULC; however, I am standing behind my claim that the schools are similar; too similar to have a great amount of hate towards GW in comparison to GULC.


I think the hate actually stems from the suggestion that GW is almost equal to GULC. Taking GW on its own doesn't generate nearly as much hate as when somebody says "GW is almost equal to GULC/Cornell".


+180

User avatar
stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:12 pm

pennstatepride wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
NayBoer wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:GW has a 167 LSAT median, fyi.
That was old data, maybe.

GULC is 170. GW is 167.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA5244.pdf
http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA5246.pdf


Thus making 25% GTown = median GW. If we're to believe the LSAC, that means there's a statistically significant difference between the bottom of the class at GTown and the middle of the class at GW. The 75% difference is even higher.

Edit: And that ignores PT.


My argument was never that GW>GULC; however, I am standing behind my claim that the schools are similar; too similar to have a great amount of hate towards GW in comparison to GULC.


I don't know that it's out and out hate. If it is, it's misplaced. I'm looking at GW's peer schools whether I get into a T14 or not, but then I'm looking at St Louis, Nashville and ATL as final destinations and not a market with 2 T14s feeding in. If I was, I'd likely go with the safest bet if I didn't get a full ride at GW/Fordham/UIUC for DC/NYC/Chi. It's a good school, but there aren't many safe options ITE and the best bet seems to be to either take minimal debt (as in less than 75K) at a decent school or max job opportunities at a T14.

User avatar
pennstatepride
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby pennstatepride » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:12 pm

insidethetwenty wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:My argument was never that GW>GULC; however, I am standing behind my claim that the schools are similar; too similar to have a great amount of hate towards GW in comparison to GULC.


I think the hate actually stems from the suggestion that GW is almost equal to GULC. Taking GW on its own doesn't generate nearly as much hate as when somebody says "GW is almost equal to GULC/Cornell".


Hypo: If the 2011 Rankings have GULC at 14 and GW at 19, will comparing the two generate as much hate? Is this a rankings thing or a general reputation issue?

jk11287
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:27 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby jk11287 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:15 pm

To say that GW and GULC are "like the same" is obviously false and misguided. I think it is fair to say, however, that GW is better than its 28 ranking might suggest, for a number of reasons.

User avatar
stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:15 pm

pennstatepride wrote:
insidethetwenty wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:My argument was never that GW>GULC; however, I am standing behind my claim that the schools are similar; too similar to have a great amount of hate towards GW in comparison to GULC.


I think the hate actually stems from the suggestion that GW is almost equal to GULC. Taking GW on its own doesn't generate nearly as much hate as when somebody says "GW is almost equal to GULC/Cornell".


Hypo: If the 2011 Rankings have GULC at 14 and GW at 19, will comparing the two generate as much hate? Is this a rankings thing or a general reputation issue?


I think it still would. You'd get some outrage if you suggested WUSTL is equal to or almost equal to GULC (or Northwestern, if you want the markets to match up slightly better).

Edit: WUSTL and GW's medians are very similar, so it's a relatively apt comparison.
Last edited by stratocophic on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
pennstatepride
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby pennstatepride » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:16 pm

jk11287 wrote:To say that GW and GULC are "like the same" is obviously false and misguided. I think it is fair to say, however, that GW is better than its 28 ranking might suggest, for a number of reasons.


Agreed.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby keg411 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:17 pm

I know a median Cornell 3L that got DC BigLaw for her 2L SA (and I'm pretty sure she got an offer as well), meaning she did 2009 OCI, didn't target Cornell's primary market, and was well below top 35% (no journal). There is NO doubt that CG >>> GW. Especially as COL in Ithaca will be way cheaper and it's far more portable than a GW degree and while not a member of the T13, GULC is just the better school in GW's own market.

However, I don't like DC and I would never target DC as a market, so it's not like I've done any research into it. Maybe GW and DC are doing okay ITE.

insidethetwenty
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby insidethetwenty » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:19 pm

pennstatepride wrote:
insidethetwenty wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:My argument was never that GW>GULC; however, I am standing behind my claim that the schools are similar; too similar to have a great amount of hate towards GW in comparison to GULC.


I think the hate actually stems from the suggestion that GW is almost equal to GULC. Taking GW on its own doesn't generate nearly as much hate as when somebody says "GW is almost equal to GULC/Cornell".


Hypo: If the 2011 Rankings have GULC at 14 and GW at 19, will comparing the two generate as much hate? Is this a rankings thing or a general reputation issue?


I think if someone says "GW is almost as good as GULC" then you will still get hate/negativity regardless of the rankings. When somebody says "GULC isn't that much better that WUSTL", WUSTL gets the hate. When somebody says "Cornell isn't that much better than Minnesota," Minnesota gets the hate.

I think what doesn't draw hate is when someone says "GULC isn't worth 100k more than GW to me". That's a perfectly reasonable and probably sensible decision. It still doesn't change the fact that GULC is the superior school. I thought that's what this thread was about.
Last edited by insidethetwenty on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:20 pm

keg411 wrote:I know a median Cornell 3L that got DC BigLaw for her 2L SA (and I'm pretty sure she got an offer as well), meaning she did 2009 OCI, didn't target Cornell's primary market, and was well below top 35% (no journal). There is NO doubt that CG >>> GW. Especially as COL in Ithaca will be way cheaper and it's far more portable than a GW degree and while not a member of the T13, GULC is just the better school in GW's own market.

However, I don't like DC and I would never target DC as a market, so it's not like I've done any research into it. Maybe GW and DC are doing okay ITE.


She did 08 OCI actually.

User avatar
Ragged
Posts: 1509
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby Ragged » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:23 pm

keg411 wrote: There is NO doubt that CG >>> GW. Especially as COL in Ithaca will be way cheaper and it's far more portable than a GW degree and while not a member of the T13, GULC is just the better school in GW's own market.




Wow that's some hard anti-GULC trolling. But GW is a member of T28. Therefore GW is superior to GULC.

User avatar
pennstatepride
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:08 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby pennstatepride » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:26 pm

Ragged wrote:
keg411 wrote: There is NO doubt that CG >>> GW. Especially as COL in Ithaca will be way cheaper and it's far more portable than a GW degree and while not a member of the T13, GULC is just the better school in GW's own market.




Wow that's some hard anti-GULC trolling. But GW is a member of T28. Therefore GW is superior to GULC.


You're so funny. Did you think of that all on your own?

User avatar
stratocophic
Posts: 2207
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:24 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby stratocophic » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:27 pm

Ragged wrote:
keg411 wrote: There is NO doubt that CG >>> GW. Especially as COL in Ithaca will be way cheaper and it's far more portable than a GW degree and while not a member of the T13, GULC is just the better school in GW's own market.




Wow that's some hard anti-GULC trolling. But GW is a member of T28. Therefore GW is superior to GULC.


T14 is a myth, T13 or bust

umichgrad
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:53 am

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby umichgrad » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:27 pm

i work at a V-50 firm in DC.

equal # of partners from GULC and GW, with actually slightly more from GW. Followed by UVA, Columbia/Harvard/Yale, WCL and Catholic, random midwest schools, random florida schools, Howard.

full disclosure: likely going to GW next year, and happy about it.

keg411
Posts: 5935
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 9:10 pm

Re: Why All The GW Hate On TLS?

Postby keg411 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:31 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
keg411 wrote:I know a median Cornell 3L that got DC BigLaw for her 2L SA (and I'm pretty sure she got an offer as well), meaning she did 2009 OCI, didn't target Cornell's primary market, and was well below top 35% (no journal). There is NO doubt that CG >>> GW. Especially as COL in Ithaca will be way cheaper and it's far more portable than a GW degree and while not a member of the T13, GULC is just the better school in GW's own market.

However, I don't like DC and I would never target DC as a market, so it's not like I've done any research into it. Maybe GW and DC are doing okay ITE.


She did 08 OCI actually.


That's what I meant. Never said I could add or remember dates ;).

And honestly, I don't care about GULC being T13/T14/whatever. I just read it elsewhere and it amused me because I don't like DC. Besides, I prefer anti-trolling UF :D.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests