Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

Michigan ($)
73
86%
Georgetown
5
6%
Vermont ($$$$)
7
8%
BC
0
No votes
BU
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 85

User avatar
beef wellington
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:05 am

Re: Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

Postby beef wellington » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:55 pm

fortissimo wrote:
beef wellington wrote:Dude, I do know the federal poverty level. It's the same for everybody.


Poverty level depends on your family situation. http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/09poverty.shtml. A 41k income wouldn't qualify as 150% below your poverty line in a family of 1.

True, I misspoke when I said it was the same for everyone. But his poverty level is not going to change according to what school he goes to or how much debt he has, which was my original point, one you've yet to rebut but oddly won't concede.
fortissimo wrote:
And you're actually going to sit here and argue that an LRAP with a soft cap of $36k/yr is superior to one with a soft cap of $75k/yr? Not only that, you said Michigan's LRAP would likely cover all of OP's payments. WTF?


You can benefit from LRAP and IBR at the same time. I think an LRAP that allows you to do whatever you want in the legal field is better than one that limits you to working only two types of jobs.

Michigan's LRAP is basically useless for a single person making more than $40k/yr. GULC's is so good you might never pay a dime for law school. But you're going with Michigan for the "flexibility" in being able to choose non-PI, horribly-compensated jobs. Different strokes I guess.

fortissimo
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am

Re: Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

Postby fortissimo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:12 pm

beef wellington wrote:True, I misspoke when I said it was the same for everyone. But his poverty level is not going to change according to what school he goes to or how much debt he has, which was my original point, one you've yet to rebut but oddly won't concede.


I don't think the point of contention was if his poverty level would change according to what school he goes to. The point of contention were if the payment amounts would change, depending on debt.

Michigan's LRAP is basically useless for a single person making more than $40k/yr. GULC's is so good you might never pay a dime for law school. But you're going with Michigan for the "flexibility" in being able to choose non-PI, horribly-compensated jobs. Different strokes I guess.


Michigan's LRAP's expected contribution over the base is only 35% times AAI. So if you were to make 41k, you would only contribute $145 a month according to LRAP. If you benefit from IBR at the same time at another income level, it is probable that you wouldn't pay anything at all.

GULC's LRAP is functionally only available to those who graduate in the top 1/3 of the class ITE. If you don't obtain one of the two types of jobs, you can't even use LRAP.

I have no intention of pursuing government or PI and never had an interest in it. (I wouldn't pursue a field that on average pays 15k less than the starting salary of graduates in my major at my undergrad.)

You make a good point though. I guess the top 1/3 of the class at Georgetown can look forward to using the LRAP if they choose to, while the other 2/3, who are probably going to have to pursue "non-PI, horribly compensated jobs" are going to wish GULC's LRAP were not limited to only 2 types of jobs while they make full, monthly payments of $1500+ a month on loans. (And yes, IBR may potentially help limit payments, but this person wouldn't be qualified to have loans disposed of after 10 years.) GULC's limiting LRAP itself isn't much of a benefit for most, while graduates of any school are qualified to use IBR.
Last edited by fortissimo on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Stringer Bell
Posts: 1913
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:43 pm

Re: Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:19 pm

I haven't read through all the posts here, but you guys seem to have a different impression of IBR than I do by saying 10 yr repayment qualifying jobs are "very hard to come by." What I have found is that almost any govt job qualifies (PD, ADA, teacher, military officer, hell even a mailman). If I am wrong please link me to something that sets me straight.

User avatar
beef wellington
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:05 am

Re: Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

Postby beef wellington » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:40 pm

fortissimo wrote:
beef wellington wrote:True, I misspoke when I said it was the same for everyone. But his poverty level is not going to change according to what school he goes to or how much debt he has, which was my original point, one you've yet to rebut but oddly won't concede.


I don't think the point of contention was if his poverty level would change according to what school he goes to. The point of contention were if the payment amounts would change, depending on debt.

Yes or no: a Michigan graduate with $100k in debt will make the same monthly IBR payment as a GULC graduate with $200k in debt (assume a $50k salary for each and that they have the same family size, and forget about the LRAPs for a minute).
fortissimo wrote:
Michigan's LRAP is basically useless for a single person making more than $40k/yr. GULC's is so good you might never pay a dime for law school. But you're going with Michigan for the "flexibility" in being able to choose non-PI, horribly-compensated jobs. Different strokes I guess.


Michigan's LRAP's expected contribution over the base is only 35% times AAI. So if you were to make 41k, you would only contribute $145 a month according to LRAP. If you benefit from IBR at the same time at another income level, it is probable that you wouldn't pay anything at all.

GULC's LRAP is functionally only available to those who graduate in the top 1/3 of the class ITE. If you don't obtain one of the two types of jobs, you can't even use LRAP.

I have no intention of pursuing government or PI and never had an interest in it. (I wouldn't pursue a field that on average pays 15k less than the starting salary of graduates in my major at my undergrad.)

You make a good point though. I guess the top 1/3 of the class at Georgetown can look forward to using the LRAP if they choose to, while the other 2/3, who are probably going to have to pursue "non-PI, horribly compensated jobs" are going to wish GULC's LRAP were not limited to only 2 types of jobs while they make full, monthly payments of $1500+ a month on loans. (And yes, IBR may potentially help limit payments, but this person wouldn't be qualified to have loans disposed of after 10 years.)

Okay, Michigan's is useless for a single person making over $50k/yr (more like $47k but whatever). For nonprofit lawyers making median salaries for ten years, GULC will pay ALL of their debts ($55k total). Michigan pays about $4k total.

And are you claiming that only the top 1/3 of GULC's class can get a PI job? What is the based on, and what happens to the rest of the class?

Also, if you think people in low-paying jobs will be paying $1500 a month under IBR...Jesus why am I even arguing with you. IBR IS CAPPED. And you don't have to do PI to get IBR. Yes you wouldn't be eligible for Public Service Loan Forgiveness, but neither would a Michigan grad working the same job.

User avatar
beef wellington
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:05 am

Re: Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

Postby beef wellington » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:42 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:I haven't read through all the posts here, but you guys seem to have a different impression of IBR than I do by saying 10 yr repayment qualifying jobs are "very hard to come by." What I have found is that almost any govt job qualifies (PD, ADA, teacher, military officer, hell even a mailman). If I am wrong please link me to something that sets me straight.

Nope, you're credited.

irishman86
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:03 am

Re: Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

Postby irishman86 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:45 pm

Michigan! Better school, $, better job prospects.

hedgehog28
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:24 pm

Re: Mich ($) /GULC/VT ($$$$) for environmental/PI law

Postby hedgehog28 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:05 am

Ugh can't help myself.

So much bad advice in this thread...

First off- to say networking is a myth and that it is all about grades and class rank is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and 100% untrue for PI work. 100% untrue and perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever seen.

Also anyone stating that Michigan's LRAP is half as good as Georgetown's is delusional. I'm $110,000 in debt and don't plan on paying any of it back thanks to Georgetown's generosity- this would not be the case at Michigan, nowhere close. And yes, to some extent if you are planning on going into PI law then a small scholarship doesn't make much difference. If I didn't have my scholarship from Georgetown I'd be $155,000 in debt, and still would be paying none of it back. It is only my friends going into firms who actually have to worry about how much debt they are in.

Unless you get among the lower ranked T14 the exact ranking of the school is so much less important that other factors. Look at the PI facilities, the LRAP, the faculty, the classes, the location.

Of course being close to D.C. is important for government jobs. It doesn't matter how good Michigan's presence is in D.C. you will NOT BE THERE most of the year. Meanwhile GULC students are pursuing government and non-profit internships throughout the school year and building their networks.

Finally- no the federal government does no recruit at OCI. We have a completely separate program for that, called GIP, the government interview program.




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