Yale v. Stanford

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:52 pm

sayan wrote:I thought Yale was H/P/L after the first semester. Isn't Stanford the same?

Yeah, don't HYS operate on essentially the same grading system after first semester? Tinman?

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 8:55 pm

adameus wrote:
sayan wrote:
adameus wrote:No I didn't but I am slightly regretting it. Do they take late apps?


They accepted applications up until 2/15.


yes I realize that, hence me asking if they take late apps. Probably a bad idea, but just wondering. I know Harvard will take late apps.

From the now infamous post on the YLS blog (in the comments):

Our electronic application lists a deadline of 2/15, but you actually have until 11:59 pm ET on 2/17 to submit your application. There is no disadvantage to applying this late.

Unfortunately, we do not accept applications after this date. If you're not able to apply by tomorrow evening, please consider applying next year.


http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... wered.aspx

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Pausanias
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Pausanias » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:14 pm

I'm sure present YLS students will do a better job of defining Yale's grade structure than I, but as I understand it, the main differences in grading between Y on the one hand and H/S on the other are as follows:

1. At Yale, Ls are quite rare. Moreover, the distribution of Hs and Ps are at the discretion of the professor. He could give all Hs if he wanted to. At H and S, on the other hand, the proportion is dictated by the school, and Ls are given out to a set % of students.

2. I believe both H and S also give out prizes for the top students, while Yale does not. This means that even though it seems as if there are no grades at H and S, there are always reasons for the go-getters, who are the majority at all 3 schools, to stress out about getting those prizes. At YLS, on the other hand, you are competing only against yourself. You are trying to write the best papers you can, get the best relationships with the profs as you can, etc.

3. Yale does not rank students, but I think Harvard does (does stanford?)

4. The result, as it seems to me, is that, while most Yers are better off than most Sers and Hers, I would imagine that if you are top of your class at Harvard and are editor-in-chief of the law review, you are probably in a better position than any other student at any other law school.

What do people who actually know what they're talking about think?

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby BioEBear2010 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:20 pm

I'm not 100% sure on the differences between the grading systems, but I believe the main difference is that Yale gives out P's and H's (and low P's, but those are not common) at the professor's discretion while Harvard and Stanford give out P/H/HH (or whatever they call the top marks) based on a curve (I think it's around 60/30/10). Also, Yale has the Pass/No Pass (or Pass/Pass, as the YLS students loving call it) during the 1st semester.

I'm pretty sure that Pausanias' post hits the nail on the head.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:21 pm

Ls are very uncommon at all three schools. You are right that the biggest difference is that at Yale the entire class could theoretically get Hs. At Harvard and Stanford, the number of Hs is capped at about 35 percent of the class. That's actually a big difference.

I don't think Stanford ranks.

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sayan
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby sayan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:21 pm

Pausanias wrote:I'm sure present YLS students will do a better job of defining Yale's grade structure than I, but as I understand it, the main differences in grading between Y on the one hand and H/S on the other are as follows:

1. At Yale, Ls are quite rare. Moreover, the distribution of Hs and Ps are at the discretion of the professor. He could give all Hs if he wanted to. At H and S, on the other hand, the proportion is dictated by the school, and Ls are given out to a set % of students.

2. I believe both H and S also give out prizes for the top students, while Yale does not. This means that even though it seems as if there are no grades at H and S, there are always reasons for the go-getters, who are the majority at all 3 schools, to stress out about getting those prizes. At YLS, on the other hand, you are competing only against yourself. You are trying to write the best papers you can, get the best relationships with the profs as you can, etc.

3. Yale does not rank students, but I think Harvard does (does stanford?)

4. The result, as it seems to me, is that, while most Yers are better off than most Sers and Hers, I would imagine that if you are top of your class at Harvard and are editor-in-chief of the law review, you are probably in a better position than any other student at any other law school.

What do people who actually know what they're talking about think?


I think the grading policy at Harvard doesn't mandate a certain amount of H or L. It was just rumored there was a policy, but that was dispelled by the administration. Typically, though, the distribution follows a 37/55/8 curve for H/P/L respectively.

There is no HH at Harvard IIRC (but there is a dean scholar award -- a discretionary prize awarded to not more than 2 of the best performers in a class with 30+ people).

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:33 pm

I think no more than 37 percent of a class can get H at Harvard.

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sayan
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby sayan » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:50 pm

crackberry wrote:I think no more than 37 percent of a class can get H at Harvard.


37% is the recommended proportion but it is not enforced (which a follow-up memo clarified).

I'm curious to know the average proportion of Y or S who receive H's in any given class.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:00 pm

sayan wrote:
crackberry wrote:I think no more than 37 percent of a class can get H at Harvard.


37% is the recommended proportion but it is not enforced (which a follow-up memo clarified).

I'm curious to know the average proportion of Y or S who receive H's in any given class.

Is it not enforced in the sense that more can get H or is it not enforced in the sense that not exactly 37 percent have to get H (in other words, it could be 0-36 percent)?

I really don't think Harvard has what amounts to functionally no grades. They used to give mandatory LPs for Christ's sake.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:01 pm

crackberry wrote:
sayan wrote:
crackberry wrote:I think no more than 37 percent of a class can get H at Harvard.


37% is the recommended proportion but it is not enforced (which a follow-up memo clarified).

I'm curious to know the average proportion of Y or S who receive H's in any given class.

Is it not enforced in the sense that more can get H or is it not enforced in the sense that not exactly 37 percent have to get H (in other words, it could be 0-36 percent)?

I really don't think Harvard has what amounts to functionally no grades. They used to give mandatory LPs for Christ's sake.


actually mandatory LPs was only last year... mandatory lp has been abolished now

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:25 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
crackberry wrote:
sayan wrote:
crackberry wrote:I think no more than 37 percent of a class can get H at Harvard.


37% is the recommended proportion but it is not enforced (which a follow-up memo clarified).

I'm curious to know the average proportion of Y or S who receive H's in any given class.

Is it not enforced in the sense that more can get H or is it not enforced in the sense that not exactly 37 percent have to get H (in other words, it could be 0-36 percent)?

I really don't think Harvard has what amounts to functionally no grades. They used to give mandatory LPs for Christ's sake.


actually mandatory LPs was only last year... mandatory lp has been abolished now

Right, which is why I said "used to." But that makes me think they haven't done a 180 and allowed profs to give as many Hs as they want. I'm pretty sure there is a cap on the # of Hs/class, just the way there is at Stanford. I think Yale is the only school without a cap on Hs.

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adameus
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby adameus » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:33 pm

which school has hotter chicks?

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:41 pm

adameus wrote:which school has hotter chicks?

Neither. Stanford girls are tanner and probably in better shape, though.

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adameus
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby adameus » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:46 pm

crackberry wrote:
adameus wrote:which school has hotter chicks?

Neither. Stanford girls are tanner and probably in better shape, though.


Sounds like its UCLA FTW!

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:51 pm

adameus wrote:
crackberry wrote:
adameus wrote:which school has hotter chicks?

Neither. Stanford girls are tanner and probably in better shape, though.


Sounds like its [strike]UCLA[/strike] USC FTW!

Fixed.

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adameus
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby adameus » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:01 pm

USC, UCLA, same shit different pile, no?

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:10 pm

adameus wrote:USC, UCLA, same shit different pile, no?

USC girls >> UCLA girls, at least for undergrad.

Rich, private school girls FTW.

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adameus
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby adameus » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:15 pm

crackberry wrote:
adameus wrote:USC, UCLA, same shit different pile, no?

USC girls >> UCLA girls, at least for undergrad.

Rich, private school girls FTW.


what's with rich girls being more attractive? My theory is that their Dads, being rich, were able to attract a hot wife and hence they have above average looking children. Any other theories out there?

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kittenmittons
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby kittenmittons » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:15 pm

adameus wrote:
crackberry wrote:
adameus wrote:USC, UCLA, same shit different pile, no?

USC girls >> UCLA girls, at least for undergrad.

Rich, private school girls FTW.


what's with rich girls being more attractive? My theory is that their Dads, being rich, were able to attract a hot wife and hence they have above average looking children. Any other theories out there?


They're hot and rich, don't overthink this bro.

hth

bignoseknowsnoes
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby bignoseknowsnoes » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:18 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:Scenario 1:

Ding/WL at Yale --> Stanford

Scenario 2:

Yale admit --> Yale visit --> Stanford

:D


Someone send this guy the "why I chose Yale" youtube vid - I'm too lazy to find/post. That'll make your decision quite easy.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:18 pm

adameus wrote:
crackberry wrote:
adameus wrote:USC, UCLA, same shit different pile, no?

USC girls >> UCLA girls, at least for undergrad.

Rich, private school girls FTW.


what's with rich girls being more attractive? My theory is that their Dads, being rich, were able to attract a hot wife and hence they have above average looking children. Any other theories out there?

They have more money to spend on nice clothes, makeup, etc. Plus they have hotter moms.

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Kronk
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Kronk » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:19 pm

bignoseknowsnoes wrote:
Tangerine Gleam wrote:Scenario 1:

Ding/WL at Yale --> Stanford

Scenario 2:

Yale admit --> Yale visit --> Stanford

:D


Someone send this guy the "why I chose Yale" youtube vid - I'm too lazy to find/post. That'll make your decision quite easy.


He doesn't have a decision to make. hth him. ;)

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:28 pm

Kronk wrote:He doesn't have a decision to make. hth him. ;)

I love how no one reads the OP any more and just assumes I've been admitted to Yale. Yes, people, I am awesome.

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tinman
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby tinman » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:35 pm

crackberry wrote:
sayan wrote:I thought Yale was H/P/L after the first semester. Isn't Stanford the same?

Yeah, don't HYS operate on essentially the same grading system after first semester? Tinman?


Yes, and I agree with most of what Pausanias and BioEBear have said about this. I don't agree, however, with the statement:"I would imagine that if you are top of your class at Harvard and are editor-in-chief of the law review, you are probably in a better position than any other student at any other law school." I think that if you have all Hs at Yale or all Hs and book prizes at Stanford, no doors will be closed to you.

I think not having book awards and dean prizes is a huge difference. It really reduces stress for each individual class (that is, people safely in the top third of a particular class are not trying trample each other to be top three). Also, at Yale the only blackletter class that you ever need to take for a grade is Crim, and you can take it any times in your three years. You could write papers for all your other classes if you wanted. A lot of people do take blackletter classes with finals after the first pass/pass semester, but it is extremely liberating to have the choice, IMO. If one person takes all con law paper seminars and another person takes all blackletter classes, I don't know how employers will ever compare them. It's a lot easier to compare Stanford and Harvard students who are put through the ringer the first year. You can definitely know the top and bottom students at H and S after the first year (because of the book prizes and low passes) and you can approximately know the place of everyone else (because you take approximately the same classes). Sure, it is nice to be the person with a collection of book prizes or dean's prizes. But those people are rare. And I think the same opportunities are available to top students at Yale, you just might have to network a little harder to get them at first.

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Pausanias
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Pausanias » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:55 pm

tinman wrote:I don't agree, however, with the statement:"I would imagine that if you are top of your class at Harvard and are editor-in-chief of the law review, you are probably in a better position than any other student at any other law school." I think that if you have all Hs at Yale or all Hs and book prizes at Stanford, no doors will be closed to you.


I meant this more from the point of view of feeder judges/SCOTUS clerkships, but I may be wrong. It just seems like there are always all these Harvard law review editors in those slots. I guess you could say the same about Yale. Stanford doesn't even consistently place with Kozinsky. Since we're all gunning for those SCOTUS clerkships and all...




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