Yale v. Stanford

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NightHooded
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby NightHooded » Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:47 am

Just noticed the USNWR rankings: 100, 97, 93, 91 for YHSC!

Are we moving towards YH and SC? Is Stanford's future in danger? :?

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:01 pm

NightHooded wrote:Just noticed the USNWR rankings: 100, 97, 93, 91 for YHSC!

Are we moving towards YH and SC? Is Stanford's future in danger? :?

Well, to be fair, it would be more like Y-H-S-C.

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Dignan
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Dignan » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:16 pm

NightHooded wrote:Just noticed the USNWR rankings: 100, 97, 93, 91 for YHSC!

Are we moving towards YH and SC? Is Stanford's future in danger? :?

I like Columbia--I might even be going there next year--but I don't think it belongs in the same tier as Stanford. For most types of big law, SLS and CLS are basically peer schools. But for almost everything else--clerkships, academia, elite PI--Stanford is better. It's going to take more than a shift in a magazine's ranking system to change that.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:19 pm

Dignan wrote:
NightHooded wrote:Just noticed the USNWR rankings: 100, 97, 93, 91 for YHSC!

Are we moving towards YH and SC? Is Stanford's future in danger? :?

I like Columbia--I might even be going there next year--but I don't think it belongs in the same tier as Stanford. For most types of big law, SLS and CLS are basically peer schools. But for almost everything else--clerkships, academia, elite PI--Stanford is better. It's going to take more than a shift in a magazine's ranking system to change that.

Plus I think one could make the argument that Stanford owns the West Coast in a way that Columbia most certainly does not own the East Coast (or even NYC). Sure, CLS is better than SLS for NYC BigLaw, but is it better for anything else?

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Dignan
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Dignan » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:28 pm

crackberry wrote:
Dignan wrote:
NightHooded wrote:Just noticed the USNWR rankings: 100, 97, 93, 91 for YHSC!

Are we moving towards YH and SC? Is Stanford's future in danger? :?

I like Columbia--I might even be going there next year--but I don't think it belongs in the same tier as Stanford. For most types of big law, SLS and CLS are basically peer schools. But for almost everything else--clerkships, academia, elite PI--Stanford is better. It's going to take more than a shift in a magazine's ranking system to change that.

Plus I think one could make the argument that Stanford owns the West Coast in a way that Columbia most certainly does not own the East Coast (or even NYC). Sure, CLS is better than SLS for NYC BigLaw, but is it better for anything else?

I don't think it's better for anything else, but I do think that CLS is a peer to Stanford in non-West Coast markets. At least that's the impression I have after talking to a couple of high placed attorneys in Chicago.

Also, I'm not sure that it's harder for a CLS grad to break into the California market than it is for a SLS grad to break into the New York market. CLS grads do extraordinarily well out here. I think I've shared this before:

http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/student ... w/data.htm

Check out San Francisco. CLS almost keeps pace with SLS. I know that CLS is twice as big as SLS, but when you consider how many CLS grads self-select into the NYC market, it's remarkable how well CLS does in Cali.

Like I said, I think the two schools are peers for big law, but not other things.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:35 pm

Dignan wrote:Like I said, I think the two schools are peers for big law, but not other things.

Yeah, I generally agree with that. CLS is definitely better for NYC BigLaw and is probably equal (if not better) for DC BigLaw. I do think, however, that all things being equal, the SLS grad gets the California BigLaw job over the CLS grad.

And then for academia, clerkships, elite PI, etc., like you said, SLS is better.

NightHooded
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby NightHooded » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:46 pm

How much of the low NYC-representation is due to Stanford self-selection?

How much "better" is NYC big law than west coast big law? I really don't know about the differences. :?

Part of me would think Stanford has an advantage due to being "boutique" compared to Harvard and Columbia. I am surprised NYC doesn't hold Stanford in higher regard

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:48 pm

crackberry wrote:
NightHooded wrote:Just noticed the USNWR rankings: 100, 97, 93, 91 for YHSC!

Are we moving towards YH and SC? Is Stanford's future in danger? :?

Well, to be fair, it would be more like Y-H-S-C.


You considering coming to H then? :D Congrats Again on your acceptance.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:01 pm

NightHooded wrote:How much of the low NYC-representation is due to Stanford self-selection?

How much "better" is NYC big law than west coast big law? I really don't know about the differences. :?

Part of me would think Stanford has an advantage due to being "boutique" compared to Harvard and Columbia. I am surprised NYC doesn't hold Stanford in higher regard

A surprisingly high number of SLS grads end up in NYC, and I don't think they have too much trouble finding work, but I'd imagine that because there are so many fewer SLS grads working in NYC than there are HLS and CLS grads, that the institutional brand just isn't the same.

Everything I've read and heard is that hiring partners LOVE to hire alums from their law schools, which definitely benefits schools like CLS in NYC. Because there aren't many SLS grads working in NYC in the first place (relative to CLS and HLS), SLS grads who want NYC don't have the same connections as CLS grads. Incidentally, this is also why SLS owns California.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:02 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
crackberry wrote:
NightHooded wrote:Just noticed the USNWR rankings: 100, 97, 93, 91 for YHSC!

Are we moving towards YH and SC? Is Stanford's future in danger? :?

Well, to be fair, it would be more like Y-H-S-C.


You considering coming to H then? :D Congrats Again on your acceptance.

Thank you, but no, I am not really considering it. If I wanted East Coast BigLaw, there's no question I'd go to HLS over SLS, but I want West Coast PI, so I think SLS is going to serve my career interests better than any school except (perhaps) Yale. Plus, SLS' LRAP is better than HLS' LIPP, which matters in my case.
Last edited by crackberry on Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dignan
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Dignan » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:02 pm

NightHooded wrote:How much of the low NYC-representation is due to Stanford self-selection?

Quite a bit, I think. Same for the DC market.

Last weekend, I spoke to dozens of current Berkeley Law students. The overwhelming majority had zero interest in even considering a job back East. I have a possible interest in the DC market, and I talked to a couple of Berkeley 3Ls who were targeting DC. They were doing quite well (they both landed 2L summer associate gigs with elite DC firms), and they claimed that the (relatively few) Berkeley students who were focused on East Coast markets were, if anything, doing better than the students who wanted to work in California.

Stanford isn't quite as Cali-focused as Berkeley, but I imagine that a similar dynamic is going on there.

NightHooded
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby NightHooded » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:06 pm

I'm now curious how end-all and be-all NYC is for big law. Can you become a "power player" solely on the west coast?

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby BioEBear2010 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:48 pm

NightHooded wrote:I'm now curious how end-all and be-all NYC is for big law. Can you become a "power player" solely on the west coast?

For most types of law, NYC and DC rule as kings. NYC is the place to be for nearly all forms of corporate law (IP being the most notable exception), and DC is the place to be for all governmental law. The west coast legal market is growing, but it is still tiny compared to the east coast.




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