Yale v. Stanford

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crackberry
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Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:14 am

I feel incredibly lame and presumptuous for posting this, but if I have a choice to make, this is going to be it. I'm in at Stanford but in limbo at Yale. By no means do I expect to get in to the latter, but I do think I stand a fighter's chance. Before you all start screaming YALE, please consider the following:

I am fairly sure what I want to do is PI work (specifically environmental law) on the West Coast. I am vaguely intrigued by the idea of a clerkship (yes, I know Yale has the advantage there), but I know environmental law is where I want to be long term. And I know I want to be in California (specifically NorCal), which is why I think Stanford might be TCR.

Then again, Yale is Yale. Thoughts?

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tomhobbes
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby tomhobbes » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:17 am

Stanford is Stanford, dude. It sounds like you really want to be talked into going to Stanford. That means you really want to go to Stanford. You should go to Stanford.

gobucks8284
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby gobucks8284 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:22 am

I'm with Tom on this one. Stanford is obviously incredible, and you sound like you've already made your mind up.

Like you said, though, Yale is Yale. I don't know enough about environmental law, but I would imagine that even with environmental West Coast law, Yale gives you the best prospects.

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anmo
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby anmo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:26 am

It really comes down to how you want to spend your saturdays...

you can do this...
--ImageRemoved--


Or...

Image

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RVP11
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby RVP11 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:27 am

I think I'd hate the Northeast, and especially New Haven. Still, Yale. It will mean that tiny bit more if you EVER want to be a professor, judge, politician, etc.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:28 am

Yeah, honestly I'm torn. I do love Stanford — which is part of why Yale is so appealing. I've already spent 4 years in Palo Alto; there's a part of me that thinks a change of scenery would do me good. I don't know. At the beginning of the cycle, I was at Stanford>>>>>>Yale and now I'm kind of at Stanford=Yale, thus the genesis of my post.

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RVP11
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby RVP11 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:31 am

crackberry wrote:Yeah, honestly I'm torn. I do love Stanford — which is part of why Yale is so appealing. I've already spent 4 years in Palo Alto; there's a part of me that thinks a change of scenery would do me good. I don't know. At the beginning of the cycle, I was at Stanford>>>>>>Yale and now I'm kind of at Stanford=Yale, thus the genesis of my post.


Oh, you're a Stanford UG?

Then you really have to go to YLS. New experiences and all that.

Your chance of regret, if you go to SLS, is much higher.

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thelawguy777
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby thelawguy777 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:28 am

Yes please let me know about all the regret you will have from attending Stanford Law School... ;-)

Either choice is great. If you love Stanford, awesome! Go Stanny and never look back!

Cheers!

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Kronk
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Kronk » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:30 am

I honestly say don't worry about it until you need to worry about it. At that point I'm sure there will be an easy pick.

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Dignan
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Dignan » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:32 am

I can't add much to what was already said ITT, but I'll make a couple of comments. I've talked to a few lawyers over the past couple of weeks, and they all pretty much said the same thing with respect to choosing a law school: go where you'll be happy. According to the lawyers, attitude and state of mind play a significant role in how well one does in law school. Although this is an obvious, cliched observation, it's worth keeping in mind. If you're at all depressed by your surroundings, it's going to show in your grades and in the quality of the relationships you form with your professors and fellow students.

Now, you strike me as a likable and well-adjusted person. You're probably going to have a decent attitude, and have a fair amount of success, no matter where you go. But everything you write suggests that you strongly prefer the Bay Area to other parts of the country. It sure seems like you would be happier at SLS than YLS.

As for YLS being better than SLS for clerkships, I'm not sure that the advantage is as pronounced as it once was. Yale places better in lower district court clerkships, and Yale places better in Supreme Court clerkships (which are basically a shot in the dark anyway). In COA clerkships, however, SLS has placed just as well as YLS over the last three years.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby BioEBear2010 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:06 am

Oh Crackberry, how similar we are. I'm still praying for a Stanford acceptance, and if admitted, will have to face the same tough decision. It really helps to weigh the pros and cons (Managamy helped me with this one)...

Stanford -
Pros: Location (both weather and job opportunities/connections), access to Stanford's other academic departments (they are great at letting law students take courses in other disciplines)
Cons: Slightly weaker clerkship opportunities, de-facto grades

Yale -
Pros: The Yale name, clerkship opportunities, no grades
Cons: Location

Remember, though, that you can't go wrong with either. You really need to visit to get a feel for both schools. As Dignan said, go where you will be happiest.

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im_blue
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby im_blue » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:28 am

I'm curious why you decided to apply to Yale a few days ago, after you'd gotten into Stanford. TBH I think Yale is going to be a stretch for you with a median GPA and 25th percentile LSAT, even with Stanford UG. But if Stanford = Yale anywhere, it's going to be NorCal. I'd pick Yale for any other location, or academia.

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Dignan
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Dignan » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:56 am

im_blue wrote:I'm curious why you decided to apply to Yale a few days ago, after you'd gotten into Stanford. TBH I think Yale is going to be a stretch for you with a median GPA and 25th percentile LSAT, even with Stanford UG.

Yale is basically a stretch for almost everyone. Each year, though, Yale admits a few applicants who didn't get into either Harvard or Stanford. It's impossible to predict the idiosyncratic preferences of the three professors (out of the approximately 60 who participate) who will review your Yale application. You need some luck to be on your side, but I think that anyone with numbers that are good enough to get into a T6 has an outside shot at Yale. At least that's the story I'm telling myself.

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:29 am

Kronk wrote:I honestly say don't worry about it until you need to worry about it. At that point I'm sure there will be an easy pick.

Yeah, this is probably TCR.
im_blue wrote:I'm curious why you decided to apply to Yale a few days ago, after you'd gotten into Stanford. TBH I think Yale is going to be a stretch for you with a median GPA and 25th percentile LSAT, even with Stanford UG. But if Stanford = Yale anywhere, it's going to be NorCal. I'd pick Yale for any other location, or academia.

Of course it's a stretch. As Dignan says, it's a stretch for anyone. I realize my numbers aren't auto-admit for Yale (even if there were such a thing), but if I make it past the auto-reject stage and if I can avoid an LSAT-loving prof. in faculty review, I think I've got a decent shot. I had to apply though. I couldn't have lived with myself not applying. It's as simple as that.

Also, I agree with BioE and Dignan that feel is more important than many on TLS seem to think. I would've picked Berkeley over Harvard (or Columbia/Chicago/NYU) for that very reason. If I'd gone anywhere but Stanford for UG (and nonetheless knew how awesome the Bay Area was), this wouldn't be a choice. I just think there could be some inherent value in experiencing something different. That said, it would take Yale and Yale alone to get me to even consider turning down Stanford, which is why I created this thread.

I appreciate the responses so far and would love to hear some more opinions/further thoughts of those who've already posted.

abl
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby abl » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:21 am

Go wherever you think you'll be happiest. The (arguable) marginal boost in prospects you'll get from Yale will be far outweighed by your marginally worse performance if you don't like Yale. In other words, top 1/3 at Stanford beats out median at Yale, and you'd be shocked at how little a difference there is between top 1/3 and median at these schools. I'm writing assuming you will like Stanford more, because that's what your posts imply--the converse applies just as much in case you think Yale will make you happier and you're drawn to the Bay Area connections you'll be able to make at Stanford (or Stanford's--I think--slightly better Environmental Law program, although I might be wrong about that). This advice applies to anyone deciding between YHS with the exception of those who think they'll be just about as happy anywhere, which, if you visit all three schools, is somewhat unlikely given their radically different cultures.

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kalvano
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby kalvano » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:04 am

You can have one ultra-prestigious school on your resume, or two.

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Borhas
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Borhas » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:22 am

SoftBoiledLife wrote:Q: I'm having an impossibly hard time deciding between Yale and Stanford, can you please help?

A: Cry me a river, Fauntleroy.


PS go to Stanford

they don't call it SYH for nothing

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thickfreakness
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby thickfreakness » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:23 am

SLS (Sounds like Stanford) is the right choice here.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:27 am

crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:I honestly say don't worry about it until you need to worry about it. At that point I'm sure there will be an easy pick.

Yeah, this is probably TCR.
im_blue wrote:I'm curious why you decided to apply to Yale a few days ago, after you'd gotten into Stanford. TBH I think Yale is going to be a stretch for you with a median GPA and 25th percentile LSAT, even with Stanford UG. But if Stanford = Yale anywhere, it's going to be NorCal. I'd pick Yale for any other location, or academia.

Of course it's a stretch. As Dignan says, it's a stretch for anyone. I realize my numbers aren't auto-admit for Yale (even if there were such a thing), but if I make it past the auto-reject stage and if I can avoid an LSAT-loving prof. in faculty review, I think I've got a decent shot. I had to apply though. I couldn't have lived with myself not applying. It's as simple as that.

Also, I agree with BioE and Dignan that feel is more important than many on TLS seem to think. I would've picked Berkeley over Harvard (or Columbia/Chicago/NYU) for that very reason. If I'd gone anywhere but Stanford for UG (and nonetheless knew how awesome the Bay Area was), this wouldn't be a choice. I just think there could be some inherent value in experiencing something different. That said, it would take Yale and Yale alone to get me to even consider turning down Stanford, which is why I created this thread.

I appreciate the responses so far and would love to hear some more opinions/further thoughts of those who've already posted.


Umm wait Crackberry why are you still writing LOCI to H then? I decided I liked a school I was admitted to better than S so I didn't even end up applying to S after I made that decision...

starstruck393
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby starstruck393 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:36 am

abl wrote:Go wherever you think you'll be happiest. The (arguable) marginal boost in prospects you'll get from Yale will be far outweighed by your marginally worse performance if you don't like Yale. In other words, top 1/3 at Stanford beats out median at Yale, and you'd be shocked at how little a difference there is between top 1/3 and median at these schools. I'm writing assuming you will like Stanford more, because that's what your posts imply--the converse applies just as much in case you think Yale will make you happier and you're drawn to the Bay Area connections you'll be able to make at Stanford (or Stanford's--I think--slightly better Environmental Law program, although I might be wrong about that). This advice applies to anyone deciding between YHS with the exception of those who think they'll be just about as happy anywhere, which, if you visit all three schools, is somewhat unlikely given their radically different cultures.


It's kind of tough to readily discern your rank at a school that doesn't have grades...

fortissimo
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby fortissimo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:40 am

Nom Sawyer wrote:
crackberry wrote:
Kronk wrote:I honestly say don't worry about it until you need to worry about it. At that point I'm sure there will be an easy pick.

Yeah, this is probably TCR.
im_blue wrote:I'm curious why you decided to apply to Yale a few days ago, after you'd gotten into Stanford. TBH I think Yale is going to be a stretch for you with a median GPA and 25th percentile LSAT, even with Stanford UG. But if Stanford = Yale anywhere, it's going to be NorCal. I'd pick Yale for any other location, or academia.

Of course it's a stretch. As Dignan says, it's a stretch for anyone. I realize my numbers aren't auto-admit for Yale (even if there were such a thing), but if I make it past the auto-reject stage and if I can avoid an LSAT-loving prof. in faculty review, I think I've got a decent shot. I had to apply though. I couldn't have lived with myself not applying. It's as simple as that.

Also, I agree with BioE and Dignan that feel is more important than many on TLS seem to think. I would've picked Berkeley over Harvard (or Columbia/Chicago/NYU) for that very reason. If I'd gone anywhere but Stanford for UG (and nonetheless knew how awesome the Bay Area was), this wouldn't be a choice. I just think there could be some inherent value in experiencing something different. That said, it would take Yale and Yale alone to get me to even consider turning down Stanford, which is why I created this thread.

I appreciate the responses so far and would love to hear some more opinions/further thoughts of those who've already posted.


Umm wait Crackberry why are you still writing LOCI to H then? I decided I liked a school I was admitted to better than S so I didn't even end up applying to S after I made that decision...


Defense mechanism?

I wouldn't be able to stay in the same place for more than 4 years at a time and don't understand how anyone could not be bored after doing so, so I think Yale is tcr, but it doesn't really matter job prospect wise, unless you want to clerk or go into academia; then Yale has a pretty significant upper hand.

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Tangerine Gleam
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:22 pm

Scenario 1:

Ding/WL at Yale --> Stanford

Scenario 2:

Yale admit --> Yale visit --> Stanford

:D

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:29 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:Umm wait Crackberry why are you still writing LOCI to H then? I decided I liked a school I was admitted to better than S so I didn't even end up applying to S after I made that decision...

I already had my JR1. I figured I might as well follow through with a LOCI; it wasn't that hard and the minimal amount of effort was worth it to me to see it through.

Do we think one school has the advantage over the other as far as clerking on the 9th Circuit (in other words, just how big is Yale's clerking advantage when compared to Stanford's geographic advantage for the 9th Circuit)? I know Yale is TCR for SCOTUS, but I don't think anyone can plan on SCOTUS, and if I do a clerkship, I'm nearly positive I want to be on the 9th Circuit.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:35 pm

fwiw, this is the most obnoxious thread i have ever seen. this is almost offensive.

seriously though, to the extent that you see clerking as a goal, I can't fathom how you could turn down Yale. moreover, while your current goals are narrow enough to make stanford seem like the credited choice, what if your ambitions change in some significant way? i suspect yls would give you more career flexibility, even if just marginally.

good luck bro

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crackberry
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Re: Yale v. Stanford

Postby crackberry » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:36 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:fwiw, this is the most obnoxious thread i have ever seen. this is almost offensive.

seriously though, to the extent that you see clerking as a goal, I can't fathom how you could turn down Yale. moreover, while your current goals are narrow enough to make stanford seem like the credited choice, what if your ambitions change in some significant way? i suspect yls would give you more, even if just a marginal amount, of flexibility.

good luck bro

YOU are the most obnoxious thread I have ever seen. YOU offend me.

Also, as for whether or not Asha will figure out who I am IRL, who knows? Maybe? Hi Asha?




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