Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
lawlife2010
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:08 pm

Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby lawlife2010 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:26 pm

Please tell me the pros and cons of attending George Mason University Law School.
I hear a lot of bad things about American and having to compete with a law degree from their school. I know that GMU isn't ranked too much higher but it seems to have a much better reputation. Is this assumption wrong?
What are the prospects of finding a job in the DC or VA market with a law degree from Mason? Would you pay sticker price to go here?

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:43 pm

lawlife2010 wrote:Please tell me the pros and cons of attending George Mason University Law School.
I hear a lot of bad things about American and having to compete with a law degree from their school. I know that GMU isn't ranked too much higher but it seems to have a much better reputation. Is this assumption wrong?
What are the prospects of finding a job in the DC or VA market with a law degree from Mason? Would you pay sticker price to go here?


Both schools are somewhat in a similar position, only George Mason is cheaper.

/thread.

But seriously, George Mason is the fourth best law program in Virginia and American is the 3rd best law program in DC.

Once you add outside competition, you are in a tough spot from either school.

However I will note that only 38% of George Masons class of 2007 went into firms - most law programs place around 55%-80% into law firms.

I don't know much about VA's legal market, but I doubt it can support 8 law schools even with significant numbers of UVA's class leaving (although Virginia is the 2nd most popular location for their students to take the bar at UVA http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA5820.pdf).

Looking at the ABA law school guide, 156/192 of the bar takers from Mason took the bar in Virginia (142) or Maryland (14).

If you go to Mason, you will be able to get a job.

Look at this:

George Mason
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 2.0%
Percent employed in business and industry 23.0%
Percent employed in government 16.0%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 17.0%
Percent employed in law firms 38.0%
Percent employed in public interest 4.0%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.0%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 3.0%

American
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 0.9%
Percent employed in business and industry 12.7%
Percent employed in government 16.9%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 9.6%
Percent employed in law firms 53.1%
Percent employed in public interest 6.7%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.2%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 1.1%

Apparently, George Mason has a strong placement in "business and industry".

(possibly the result of the competition?)

lawlife2010
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:08 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby lawlife2010 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:46 pm

Thanks! That was really useful! I always seem to hear people say not to pay sticker for American but never hear anything bad about GMU. Must be due to the cost difference.
For some reason I am very intrigued to GMU. Do you think I would have better job prospects going to U.Maryland?

fortissimo
Posts: 597
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby fortissimo » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:35 pm

lawlife2010 wrote:Thanks! That was really useful! I always seem to hear people say not to pay sticker for American but never hear anything bad about GMU. Must be due to the cost difference.
For some reason I am very intrigued to GMU. Do you think I would have better job prospects going to U.Maryland?


What is the cost for GMU?

Keep in mind that those statistics are VERY old. Class of 2007 had OCI in 2005, which was during boom-ville. Things have changed a lot in the past year in the legal market.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:20 pm

fortissimo wrote:
lawlife2010 wrote:Thanks! That was really useful! I always seem to hear people say not to pay sticker for American but never hear anything bad about GMU. Must be due to the cost difference.
For some reason I am very intrigued to GMU. Do you think I would have better job prospects going to U.Maryland?


What is the cost for GMU?

Keep in mind that those statistics are VERY old. Class of 2007 had OCI in 2005, which was during boom-ville. Things have changed a lot in the past year in the legal market.


$20,556 in-state, $34,220 out-of-state
add about $22k for COL

User avatar
gwuorbust
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby gwuorbust » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:10 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
lawlife2010 wrote:Please tell me the pros and cons of attending George Mason University Law School.
I hear a lot of bad things about American and having to compete with a law degree from their school. I know that GMU isn't ranked too much higher but it seems to have a much better reputation. Is this assumption wrong?
What are the prospects of finding a job in the DC or VA market with a law degree from Mason? Would you pay sticker price to go here?


Both schools are somewhat in a similar position, only George Mason is cheaper.

/thread.

But seriously, George Mason is the fourth best law program in Virginia and American is the 3rd best law program in DC.

Once you add outside competition, you are in a tough spot from either school.

However I will note that only 38% of George Masons class of 2007 went into firms - most law programs place around 55%-80% into law firms.

I don't know much about VA's legal market, but I doubt it can support 8 law schools even with significant numbers of UVA's class leaving (although Virginia is the 2nd most popular location for their students to take the bar at UVA http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA5820.pdf).

Looking at the ABA law school guide, 156/192 of the bar takers from Mason took the bar in Virginia (142) or Maryland (14).

If you go to Mason, you will be able to get a job.

Look at this:

George Mason
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 2.0%
Percent employed in business and industry 23.0%
Percent employed in government 16.0%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 17.0%
Percent employed in law firms 38.0%
Percent employed in public interest 4.0%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.0%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 3.0%

American
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 0.9%
Percent employed in business and industry 12.7%
Percent employed in government 16.9%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 9.6%
Percent employed in law firms 53.1%
Percent employed in public interest 6.7%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.2%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 1.1%

Apparently, George Mason has a strong placement in "business and industry".

(possibly the result of the competition?)


I suspect that this is largely due to self-selection. A large % of ppl going into GMU come from biz and prob want to go back into it. GMU has the rep of being conservative and biz oriented... is it any surprise then that ppl from GMU will want to go into biz?

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby im_blue » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:20 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
lawlife2010 wrote:Please tell me the pros and cons of attending George Mason University Law School.
I hear a lot of bad things about American and having to compete with a law degree from their school. I know that GMU isn't ranked too much higher but it seems to have a much better reputation. Is this assumption wrong?
What are the prospects of finding a job in the DC or VA market with a law degree from Mason? Would you pay sticker price to go here?


Both schools are somewhat in a similar position, only George Mason is cheaper.

/thread.

But seriously, George Mason is the fourth best law program in Virginia and American is the 3rd best law program in DC.

Once you add outside competition, you are in a tough spot from either school.

However I will note that only 38% of George Masons class of 2007 went into firms - most law programs place around 55%-80% into law firms.

I don't know much about VA's legal market, but I doubt it can support 8 law schools even with significant numbers of UVA's class leaving (although Virginia is the 2nd most popular location for their students to take the bar at UVA http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA5820.pdf).

Looking at the ABA law school guide, 156/192 of the bar takers from Mason took the bar in Virginia (142) or Maryland (14).

If you go to Mason, you will be able to get a job.

Look at this:

George Mason
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 2.0%
Percent employed in business and industry 23.0%
Percent employed in government 16.0%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 17.0%
Percent employed in law firms 38.0%
Percent employed in public interest 4.0%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.0%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 3.0%

American
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 0.9%
Percent employed in business and industry 12.7%
Percent employed in government 16.9%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 9.6%
Percent employed in law firms 53.1%
Percent employed in public interest 6.7%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.2%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 1.1%

Apparently, George Mason has a strong placement in "business and industry".

(possibly the result of the competition?)


I suspect that this is largely due to self-selection. A large % of ppl going into GMU come from biz and prob want to go back into it. GMU has the rep of being conservative and biz oriented... is it any surprise then that ppl from GMU will want to go into biz?


LOL I understand "business and industry" jobs to mean the local Starbucks.

09042014
Posts: 18282
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby 09042014 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:23 pm

im_blue wrote:
gwuorbust wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
lawlife2010 wrote:Please tell me the pros and cons of attending George Mason University Law School.
I hear a lot of bad things about American and having to compete with a law degree from their school. I know that GMU isn't ranked too much higher but it seems to have a much better reputation. Is this assumption wrong?
What are the prospects of finding a job in the DC or VA market with a law degree from Mason? Would you pay sticker price to go here?


Both schools are somewhat in a similar position, only George Mason is cheaper.

/thread.

But seriously, George Mason is the fourth best law program in Virginia and American is the 3rd best law program in DC.

Once you add outside competition, you are in a tough spot from either school.

However I will note that only 38% of George Masons class of 2007 went into firms - most law programs place around 55%-80% into law firms.

I don't know much about VA's legal market, but I doubt it can support 8 law schools even with significant numbers of UVA's class leaving (although Virginia is the 2nd most popular location for their students to take the bar at UVA http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchResults/SchoolPage_PDFs/ABA_LawSchoolData/ABA5820.pdf).

Looking at the ABA law school guide, 156/192 of the bar takers from Mason took the bar in Virginia (142) or Maryland (14).

If you go to Mason, you will be able to get a job.

Look at this:

George Mason
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 2.0%
Percent employed in business and industry 23.0%
Percent employed in government 16.0%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 17.0%
Percent employed in law firms 38.0%
Percent employed in public interest 4.0%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.0%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 3.0%

American
Areas of Legal Practice (Class of 2007)
Percent employed in academia 0.9%
Percent employed in business and industry 12.7%
Percent employed in government 16.9%
Percent employed in all judicial clerkships 9.6%
Percent employed in law firms 53.1%
Percent employed in public interest 6.7%
Percent employed in an unknown field 0.2%
Percent employed in a judicial clerkship by an Article III federal judge 1.1%

Apparently, George Mason has a strong placement in "business and industry".

(possibly the result of the competition?)


I suspect that this is largely due to self-selection. A large % of ppl going into GMU come from biz and prob want to go back into it. GMU has the rep of being conservative and biz oriented... is it any surprise then that ppl from GMU will want to go into biz?


LOL I understand "business and industry" jobs to mean the local Starbucks.


Are you shitting me? Starbucks with a degree from George Mason? That is just absurd.

Everyone knows GMU place at dunkin donuts at best, and that is top of the class.

User avatar
T14_Scholly
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:46 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby T14_Scholly » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:29 pm

Beware the American haters on TLS, and those who say "George Mason is to DC as Fordham is to NYC."

User avatar
Blindmelon
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:33 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:Beware the American haters on TLS, and those who say "George Mason is to DC as Fordham is to NYC."


No. GW is to DC as Fordham is to NYC. Neither American, nor GMU are close to equivalent to Fordham. So I don't understand this. Brooklyn/Dozo are to NYC as GMU/American are to DC.

User avatar
T14_Scholly
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:46 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby T14_Scholly » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:24 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Beware the American haters on TLS, and those who say "George Mason is to DC as Fordham is to NYC."


No. GW is to DC as Fordham is to NYC. Neither American, nor GMU are close to equivalent to Fordham. So I don't understand this. Brooklyn/Dozo are to NYC as GMU/American are to DC.


Is that analogy based on anything other than the order of US News ranks of the schools in the respective cities?

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby im_blue » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:29 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Beware the American haters on TLS, and those who say "George Mason is to DC as Fordham is to NYC."


No. GW is to DC as Fordham is to NYC. Neither American, nor GMU are close to equivalent to Fordham. So I don't understand this. Brooklyn/Dozo are to NYC as GMU/American are to DC.


Is that analogy based on anything other than the order of US News ranks of the schools in the respective cities?


GWU and Fordham place the best among non-T14's in their respective markets. GMU/American and Dozo/Brooklyn lag behind.

User avatar
Blindmelon
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:09 am

T14_Scholly wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Beware the American haters on TLS, and those who say "George Mason is to DC as Fordham is to NYC."


No. GW is to DC as Fordham is to NYC. Neither American, nor GMU are close to equivalent to Fordham. So I don't understand this. Brooklyn/Dozo are to NYC as GMU/American are to DC.


Is that analogy based on anything other than the order of US News ranks of the schools in the respective cities?


Yes, placement data.

User avatar
T14_Scholly
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:46 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby T14_Scholly » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:37 am

Blindmelon wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:Beware the American haters on TLS, and those who say "George Mason is to DC as Fordham is to NYC."


No. GW is to DC as Fordham is to NYC. Neither American, nor GMU are close to equivalent to Fordham. So I don't understand this. Brooklyn/Dozo are to NYC as GMU/American are to DC.


Is that analogy based on anything other than the order of US News ranks of the schools in the respective cities?


Yes, placement data.


As I see it, job placement alone doesn't justify the statement "X school is to Y city as A school is to B city." That's a pretty broad statement, and an oversimplification.

Yimbeezy
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:55 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby Yimbeezy » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:44 am

T14_Scholly wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
T14_Scholly wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
No. GW is to DC as Fordham is to NYC. Neither American, nor GMU are close to equivalent to Fordham. So I don't understand this. Brooklyn/Dozo are to NYC as GMU/American are to DC.


Is that analogy based on anything other than the order of US News ranks of the schools in the respective cities?


Yes, placement data.


As I see it, job placement alone doesn't justify the statement "X school is to Y city as A school is to B city." That's a pretty broad statement, and an oversimplification.

Analogies aren't airtight, and this isn't an exception. But it's rather illustrative. You sound like a general skeptic sitting in a science class.

User avatar
T14_Scholly
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:46 pm

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby T14_Scholly » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:21 pm

Yimbeezy wrote:Analogies aren't airtight, and this isn't an exception. But it's rather illustrative. You sound like a general skeptic sitting in a science class.


I suspect that most people who use the analogy view job placement as the only factor worth considering.

User avatar
Blindmelon
Posts: 1708
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:13 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:03 pm

T14_Scholly wrote:
Yimbeezy wrote:Analogies aren't airtight, and this isn't an exception. But it's rather illustrative. You sound like a general skeptic sitting in a science class.


I suspect that most people who use the analogy view job placement as the only factor worth considering.


When you're buried under debt it is.

User avatar
truthypants
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:50 am

Re: Can some familiar with the D.C. area or school reputations..

Postby truthypants » Sat Feb 20, 2010 4:01 am

For George Mason, you need to be top 15% or higher to land a decent job. I'm top 30% there now, and have struck out everywhere I applied (i.e., federal agencies, federal clerkships, biglaw). Have not tried small firms or non-profits (was really hoping I wouldn't have to...sigh




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 5 guests