DC Market - T20 vs. GW

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

At what point should you choose a higher ranked school over GW for DC?

Only HYSCCN and Georgetown
13
14%
All T10
24
25%
All T14
47
49%
All T18
7
7%
All T20
2
2%
All T25
3
3%
 
Total votes: 96

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holydonkey
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DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby holydonkey » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:57 pm

HYS, UVA, and Gtown are awesome for DC, but assuming your choices are somewhere between T8-25 is it still better to go to the T20 instead of GW if you are only interested in working in DC? Since GW seems to have the biggest # of DC firms at OCI, at what point is GW not worth more for the DC market than a school with a better rep?

Assume you have ties to the DC area. For DC:

GW vs. Illinois?
GW vs. Notre Dame?
GW vs. Emory?
GW vs. Wash U?
GW vs. Vanderbilt?
GW vs. Texas?
GW vs. Cornell?
GW vs. Duke?
GW vs. Michigan?

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nyyankees
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby nyyankees » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:06 pm

OL uneducated opinion here, but I would choose Duke and Michigan over GW. Not sure about Vandy, pretty much everything else id take GW

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:08 pm

holydonkey wrote:HYS, UVA, and Gtown are awesome for DC, but assuming your choices are somewhere between T8-25 is it still better to go to the T20 instead of GW if you are only interested in working in DC? Since GW seems to have the biggest # of DC firms at OCI, at what point is GW not worth more for the DC market than a school with a better rep?

Assume you have ties to the DC area. For DC:

GW vs. Illinois?
GW vs. Notre Dame?
GW vs. Emory?
GW vs. Wash U?
GW vs. Vanderbilt?
GW vs. Texas?
GW vs. Cornell?
GW vs. Duke?
GW vs. Michigan?


It really depends on the ties (strong ties will take you a hell of a lot further than 5-10 [non T14] spots on a ranking system).

My point is if you have the ties and grades, it matters less what name is written on your diploma and more on your rank.

PoliticalJunkie
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby PoliticalJunkie » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:09 pm

I'd take most T25 over GWU. 70K/yr for a 30 ranked school wouldn't be worth the investment to me. I guess that's why I withdrew my acceptance this year.

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holydonkey
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby holydonkey » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:29 pm

I guess right now my feeling is that any of the T14 are better than GW assuming sticker at all. Vandy, Cornell, and Michigan each place only about 10% of the class in DC, but I think they have more weight and maybe that percentage is just self-selection (More from Cornell want NY, more from Michigan want NY/Chicago, more from Vandy want Atlanta/South). I heard Texas isn't placing well in DC recently, but have nothing but rumors to back this up. Duke, Gtown and UVA seem to clearly trump GW. Just not sure about the rest of the T8-20.

showNprove
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby showNprove » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:36 pm

.
Last edited by showNprove on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Alexandria
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby Alexandria » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:37 pm

I worked at one of the very top DC firms last summer, and our class had roughly equal numbers of GW and GULC students (more than any other school but Michigan, UVA, and Harvard, which were all in the same ballpark as GW and GULC). There were also TONS of attorneys who were GW grads. I know this is purely anecdotal evidence from working at a single firm, but my impression was that GW and GULC were roughly equal in terms of how they were viewed. I don't think I'd take GULC over GW if you have one of the huge GW scholarships. I would probably take HYSCCNMVPB over GW$$$$ (also DNCG over GW with no or a moderate amount of money)... I think when you get to that point, firms' class rank standards are different enough from their cutoffs for GW that you would get a real benefit.

I guess my point is, though, that if you have one of those big scholarships at GW, I'd consider it carefully. And I wouldn't assume that there's a vast difference between GW and GULC in terms of employability.

zenithtonadir
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby zenithtonadir » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:54 pm

Also, you might want to consider the fact that this was the first year USN started including part-time programs in their rankings system. That's basically why GW dropped from ~20 to 28. They are cutting their PT program from ~150/200 to only ~50, and essentially making sure that they'll pop back up to where they belong.

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rayiner
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:55 pm

zenithtonadir wrote:Also, you might want to consider the fact that this was the first year USN started including part-time programs in their rankings system. That's basically why GW dropped from ~20 to 28. They are cutting their PT program from ~150/200 to only ~50, and essentially making sure that they'll pop back up to where they belong.


ITT USNWR does something useful.

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holydonkey
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby holydonkey » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:17 pm

zenithtonadir wrote:Also, you might want to consider the fact that this was the first year USN started including part-time programs in their rankings system. That's basically why GW dropped from ~20 to 28. They are cutting their PT program from ~150/200 to only ~50, and essentially making sure that they'll pop back up to where they belong.


Definitely true. I wonder if they'll break their old ranking with the cut and top WUSTL.

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holydonkey
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby holydonkey » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:18 pm

Alexandria wrote:I worked at one of the very top DC firms last summer, and our class had roughly equal numbers of GW and GULC students (more than any other school but Michigan, UVA, and Harvard, which were all in the same ballpark as GW and GULC). There were also TONS of attorneys who were GW grads. I know this is purely anecdotal evidence from working at a single firm, but my impression was that GW and GULC were roughly equal in terms of how they were viewed. I don't think I'd take GULC over GW if you have one of the huge GW scholarships. I would probably take HYSCCNMVPB over GW$$$$ (also DNCG over GW with no or a moderate amount of money)... I think when you get to that point, firms' class rank standards are different enough from their cutoffs for GW that you would get a real benefit.

I guess my point is, though, that if you have one of those big scholarships at GW, I'd consider it carefully. And I wouldn't assume that there's a vast difference between GW and GULC in terms of employability.


Thanks! Very useful for me for both Michigan and GW!

jk11287
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby jk11287 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:22 pm

I think it also depends on what type of $$ you're looking at. As a 0L who is attending GW next year, I can tel you that 70k/yr is an extremely inflated figure; it doesn't have to be nearly that much if you aren't dead-set on having a nice apartment in the middle of Georgetown, etc. If you know that you want to ultimately end up in DC, I really don't think you could go wrong with GW; but if you aren't exactly sure, I'd definitely think long and hard about at least Duke.

Alexandria
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby Alexandria » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:34 pm

holydonkey wrote:
Thanks! Very useful for me for both Michigan and GW!


Sent you a PM with more info.

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holydonkey
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby holydonkey » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:09 pm

Alexandria wrote:
holydonkey wrote:
Thanks! Very useful for me for both Michigan and GW!


Sent you a PM with more info.


Thanks a ton! Great info.

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nealric
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby nealric » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:30 pm

Michigan is hands down a better choice than GW. So is Duke.

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ATOIsp07
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby ATOIsp07 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:31 pm

jk11287 wrote:I think it also depends on what type of $$ you're looking at. As a 0L who is attending GW next year, I can tel you that 70k/yr is an extremely inflated figure; it doesn't have to be nearly that much if you aren't dead-set on having a nice apartment in the middle of Georgetown, etc. If you know that you want to ultimately end up in DC, I really don't think you could go wrong with GW; but if you aren't exactly sure, I'd definitely think long and hard about at least Duke.


The same logic could be applied to American in regards to the tuition. And WCL's less expensive than GW. Just sayin'...

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pennstatepride
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby pennstatepride » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:48 pm

PoliticalJunkie wrote:I'd take most T25 over GWU. 70K/yr for a 30 ranked school wouldn't be worth the investment to me. I guess that's why I withdrew my acceptance this year.


Wow. You must really hang on every issue of US News to equate GW's rep with 30. This is exactly what's wrong with the legal profession.

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im_blue
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:04 pm

I'd take any T14 over GWU, but I'm having a hard time seeing how any non-T14 beats GWU significantly for DC. Vandy might be on par.

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Dignan
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby Dignan » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:38 pm

pennstatepride wrote:
PoliticalJunkie wrote:I'd take most T25 over GWU. 70K/yr for a 30 ranked school wouldn't be worth the investment to me. I guess that's why I withdrew my acceptance this year.


Wow. You must really hang on every issue of US News to equate GW's rep with 30. This is exactly what's wrong with the legal profession.

Actually, it's not what's wrong with the legal profession; it's what's wrong with much of the advice on TLS. The legal profession, by and large, doesn't care whether GW is ranked 18th or 28th by a magazine.

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im_blue
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:41 pm

Dignan wrote:
pennstatepride wrote:
PoliticalJunkie wrote:I'd take most T25 over GWU. 70K/yr for a 30 ranked school wouldn't be worth the investment to me. I guess that's why I withdrew my acceptance this year.


Wow. You must really hang on every issue of US News to equate GW's rep with 30. This is exactly what's wrong with the legal profession.

Actually, it's not what's wrong with the legal profession; it's what's wrong with much of the advice on TLS. The legal profession, by and large, doesn't care whether GW is ranked 18th or 28th by a magazine.


TITCR. GWU FT has the 16th highest numbers among law schools (3.76/167), behind only the T14 (minus Cornell), UCLA, and Vandy. Only T14's have any significant edge over GWU for DC.

minuit
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby minuit » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:48 pm

GW needs to get more love on TLS. I'd say T14 > GW, but that's it for DC. GW being ranked 28th this year is (hopefully) an anomaly.

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Dignan
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby Dignan » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:01 pm

minuit wrote:GW needs to get more love on TLS. I'd say T14 > GW, but that's it for DC. GW being ranked 28th this year is (hopefully) an anomaly.

And if your heart is really set on the DC market, there's a decent argument for taking GW with $$$ over Northwestern, Duke, and Cornell at sticker.

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rayiner
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby rayiner » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:22 pm

Dignan wrote:
minuit wrote:GW needs to get more love on TLS. I'd say T14 > GW, but that's it for DC. GW being ranked 28th this year is (hopefully) an anomaly.

And if your heart is really set on the DC market, there's a decent argument for taking GW with $$$ over Northwestern, Duke, and Cornell at sticker.


I think GW might place better in DC than NU. We place very few people in DC.

Of course there is the safety-net issue. DC is highly selective, and any T14 will place much better than GW in any market besides DC.

jerjon2
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby jerjon2 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:25 pm

Dignan wrote:
minuit wrote:GW needs to get more love on TLS. I'd say T14 > GW, but that's it for DC. GW being ranked 28th this year is (hopefully) an anomaly.

And if your heart is really set on the DC market, there's a decent argument for taking GW with $$$ over Northwestern, Duke, and Cornell at sticker.


I thought Duke did ok in DC. (Obviously you would have to have the grades because its a selective market but it seems to be a somewhat popular destination according to what's on the page linked below. Is your argument more about the money in Duke's case?)

http://www.law.duke.edu/career/resources/facts

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Dignan
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Re: DC Market - T20 vs. GW

Postby Dignan » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:43 pm

jerjon2 wrote:
Dignan wrote:
minuit wrote:GW needs to get more love on TLS. I'd say T14 > GW, but that's it for DC. GW being ranked 28th this year is (hopefully) an anomaly.

And if your heart is really set on the DC market, there's a decent argument for taking GW with $$$ over Northwestern, Duke, and Cornell at sticker.


I thought Duke did ok in DC. (Obviously you would have to have the grades because its a selective market but it seems to be a somewhat popular destination according to what's on the page linked below. Is your argument more about the money in Duke's case?)

Definitely. I would take Duke at sticker over GW at sticker, even if I wanted to eventually work in DC. But I would probably take GW w/90K over Duke. This choice is not some wild hypothetical; many applicants are facing this decision right now.

And Rayiner is right about the "safety net" factor. If you find out after three years that you actually don't want to work in DC, then you're probably going to wish that you chose Duke or NU or Cornell over GW. But I suppose you've got to take some risks in one direction or another.




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