NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

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thedogship
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby thedogship » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:13 pm

Harvard.

Plus living in Cambridge will be cheaper for 3 years when you don't have any money in law school. Taking out loans to cover NYC COL is crazy. If I were you, I'd spend 3 years in Cambridge, spend my summers in NYC, work in NYC after school, and spend the rest of my life with a Harvard Law degree. Without scholarship money, this seems like a pretty easy decision to me, and I love NYC (worked there last summer and previous summers, and will be doing my summer associate gig there this summer).

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BlueCivic
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby BlueCivic » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:28 pm

So I am a finalist for one of the full scholarships at NYU. I still probably want to get one of the high-end jobs (academia, high level fed gov work) that Harvard does better at.

Has anyone made this decision? I'd be grateful for input!

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glowhard
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby glowhard » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:34 pm

Well, full ride at NYU is hard to pass up, especially if you want to be there anyway. and i imagine that having "Fancy Scholar" on your resume at NYU might make you more competitive for those "top" jobs. So, earlier I might have suggested Harvard, but if you get the money, I'd say it's all up to your personal preference. But really, what do I know?

Also, out of curiosity, what sort of government jobs are you thinking of? I also have a vague interest in this, but I actually didn't know that they were *that* competitive...

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BlueCivic
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby BlueCivic » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:36 pm

glowhard wrote:Well, full ride at NYU is hard to pass up, especially if you want to be there anyway. and i imagine that having "Fancy Scholar" on your resume at NYU might make you more competitive for those "top" jobs. So, earlier I might have suggested Harvard, but if you get the money, I'd say it's all up to your personal preference. But really, what do I know?

Also, out of curiosity, what sort of government jobs are you thinking of? I also have a vague interest in this, but I actually didn't know that they were *that* competitive...


Something like DOJ Honors program, or a counsel position elsewhere in the executive branch, or for a Congressional committee maybe.

Alexandria
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Alexandria » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:39 pm

Even though I think H if you don't get the scholarship, I think NYU if you do.

One thing to keep in mind is that a good way to get into those government positions is to work at a firm for a few years first. Honors programs are hard (but obviously not impossible) to get into, but if you don't, it doesn't have to be the end. Lots of people move into government once they have some experience under their belts, especially in DC.

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BlueCivic
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby BlueCivic » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:43 pm

Alexandria wrote:Even though I think H if you don't get the scholarship, I think NYU if you do.

One thing to keep in mind is that a good way to get into those government positions is to work at a firm for a few years first. Honors programs are hard (but obviously not impossible) to get into, but if you don't, it doesn't have to be the end. Lots of people move into government once they have some experience under their belts, especially in DC.


Thanks thats good advice. Not sure that i would be happy/do well in a biglaw environment. But who knows?

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Series70
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Series70 » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:44 pm

If you get a full ride, I take back my earlier recommendation for Harvard. Best of luck with the scholarship.

Personally, I may be interested in becoming an AUSA someday as well (after working as an ADA, which is something you may want to consider as well), but, honestly, I can't imagine that Harvard would be all that big an advantage over NYU there, even going into the DOJ Honors Program straight out of school. You'll probably be a lot happier with your government salary without law school debt. Plus, you'll have lived in NYC for 3 years.

I also know of someone (a friend of one of my LOR writers) who went to NYU law and is currently happily employed doing environmental law for the federal government (FWIW).

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T14_Scholly
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby T14_Scholly » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:54 pm

If you go to NYU, you won't be able to wear the crimson H on your arm for the rest of your life. Please consider this factor.

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BlueCivic
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby BlueCivic » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:10 pm

bump because i can't decide. save me internet!

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badfish
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby badfish » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:15 pm

mistergoft wrote:
adameus wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:3 years away from NYC and a lifetime job on 8th avenue > 3 years in NYC and not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after


That's a bit of an exxageration for a school ranked #5 isn't it?

Ask NYU 2Ls below median


You have no idea what you're talking about. Troll.

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badfish
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby badfish » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:17 pm

mistergoft wrote:
reverendt wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:3 years away from NYC and a lifetime job on 8th avenue > 3 years in NYC and not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after

You're on crack

Seriously, the rankings whores on this board crack me up!

Saying that HLS provides substantially better opportunities than NYU is not rankings trolling.

hth.


Better opportunities from HLS ≠ not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after graduation from NYU

buzz off, troll.

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badfish
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby badfish » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:26 pm

OP, as an NYU student I would advise you to take Harvard unless you receive a full ride from NYU ... even then it should be a difficult decision.

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:30 pm

badfish wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
reverendt wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:3 years away from NYC and a lifetime job on 8th avenue > 3 years in NYC and not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after

You're on crack

Seriously, the rankings whores on this board crack me up!

Saying that HLS provides substantially better opportunities than NYU is not rankings trolling.

hth.


Better opportunities from HLS ≠ not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after graduation from NYU

buzz off, troll.

Sorry Badfish I didn't mean for it to come off like that. I meant to say NYU 1Ls substantially below median. I have heard that there are a substantial amount of NYU 2Ls that haven't procured SA positions, which would suggest that they will not be making a Biglaw salary at all. Now, if this is true, what do you suggest that these students are earning and, is it worth going into almost 200k debt (as a non-scholarship student) over going to, say, Fordham, on full scholarship?

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rikkitikki
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby rikkitikki » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:42 pm

NYU.

I took a job out of college that was great for me and what I wanted to do, but in a location which I wasn't excited about. The job has been great and everything I expected, but I have not enjoyed life because my locale sucks. Now I'm trying to escape.

If you were debating between Harvard and a T3 school, the choice would be obvious, but NYU and HLS are competitive in so many ways. The clearest thing seems to be your preference for NYC over Boston.

Don't listen to rankings whores. Do what your heart tells you, and if you are even considering turning down Harvard then you know it is because you want to be in NYC.

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badfish
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby badfish » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:47 pm

mistergoft wrote:
badfish wrote:
Better opportunities from HLS ≠ not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after graduation from NYU

buzz off, troll.

Sorry Badfish I didn't mean for it to come off like that. I meant to say NYU 1Ls substantially below median. I have heard that there are a substantial amount of NYU 2Ls that haven't procured SA positions, which would suggest that they will not be making a Biglaw salary at all. Now, if this is true, what do you suggest that these students are earning and, is it worth going into almost 200k debt (as a non-scholarship student) over going to, say, Fordham, on full scholarship?


It's OK, sorry I got upset but the anti-NYU trolling on these boards is simply egregious.

Clearly the situation is not ideal, ALL of CCN took a major hit (perhaps NYU worse than CC) but there are reasons to think that self selection, along with NYU's LRAP, may have played a role in helping to steer NYU students towards PI and away from BIGLAW.

I agree that you shouldn't go into $200K debt if you have no way of paying it back but it is important to realize that the legal market is in flux. While current market signals seem to indicate that the BIGLAW payment structure will come back it wasn't so long ago that industry experts thought BIGLAW was dead.

With that in mind, current students have a decision to make about the relative importance of institutional clout against the risk of debt. You're betting against an uncertain future and each side of the coin offers certain advantages/disadvantages.

As I pointed out to OP, I actually agree that she should go with Harvard unless she has a full ride to NYU, but to make the claim that the market won't sustain some of the best and brightest students I've ever had the pleasure of working with is just plain wrong.

generals10
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby generals10 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:06 pm

thedogship wrote:Harvard.

Plus living in Cambridge will be cheaper for 3 years when you don't have any money in law school. Taking out loans to cover NYC COL is crazy. If I were you, I'd spend 3 years in Cambridge, spend my summers in NYC, work in NYC after school, and spend the rest of my life with a Harvard Law degree. Without scholarship money, this seems like a pretty easy decision to me, and I love NYC (worked there last summer and previous summers, and will be doing my summer associate gig there this summer).


I think people tend to overemphasize the COL whenever a debate like this comes up (see any thread about Harvard vs. Hamilton/RTK, etc.). Yes, NY is crazy expensive--but Cambridge/Boston are pretty damn expensive too.

http://www.bestplaces.net/col/?salary=5 ... 2=53651000

I'm a little skeptical about the above link, and I think that when you break it down for an actual student, New York will still be noticeably more expensive (food is much more expensive in NY, and I imagine there is more comparably cheap student-targeted housing in Cambridge than NY). The same site lists NY as being about 29% more expensive than Boston. Especially when compared with the overall cost of law school, this still isn't a huge difference--we're talking a few thousand a year. I'm not saying that this isn't worth considering, just that we're comparing two pretty expensive cities--not Manhattan and Charlottesville, for example.

Not all that helpful; as someone who's considering a Hamilton v. HLS, I just get a bit irked whenever someone says something along the lines of "Oh, well Columbia's tuition is a bit higher and with NY COL, the difference really isn't all that big..."

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:48 pm

badfish wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
badfish wrote:
Better opportunities from HLS ≠ not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after graduation from NYU

buzz off, troll.

Sorry Badfish I didn't mean for it to come off like that. I meant to say NYU 1Ls substantially below median. I have heard that there are a substantial amount of NYU 2Ls that haven't procured SA positions, which would suggest that they will not be making a Biglaw salary at all. Now, if this is true, what do you suggest that these students are earning and, is it worth going into almost 200k debt (as a non-scholarship student) over going to, say, Fordham, on full scholarship?


It's OK, sorry I got upset but the anti-NYU trolling on these boards is simply egregious.

Clearly the situation is not ideal, ALL of CCN took a major hit (perhaps NYU worse than CC) but there are reasons to think that self selection, along with NYU's LRAP, may have played a role in helping to steer NYU students towards PI and away from BIGLAW.

I agree that you shouldn't go into $200K debt if you have no way of paying it back but it is important to realize that the legal market is in flux. While current market signals seem to indicate that the BIGLAW payment structure will come back it wasn't so long ago that industry experts thought BIGLAW was dead.

With that in mind, current students have a decision to make about the relative importance of institutional clout against the risk of debt. You're betting against an uncertain future and each side of the coin offers certain advantages/disadvantages.

As I pointed out to OP, I actually agree that she should go with Harvard unless she has a full ride to NYU, but to make the claim that the market won't sustain some of the best and brightest students I've ever had the pleasure of working with is just plain wrong.

While I concur with your sentiments Badfish, I still believe that in this economy that Harvard would be a more advisable decision than NYU. Not that I think that NYU is an irresponsible or even poor decision; that is completely mis-characterizing my argument. NYU is an amazing school, but, it doesn't afford the same opportunities as Harvard and does not all but guarantee you'll be able to repay your debts.

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dbt
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby dbt » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:04 pm

Harvard with full ride.

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:45 pm

dbt wrote:Harvard with full ride.

Any reason dbt, many of us know you did quite well at NYU, has it not afforded you the opportunities you expected?

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badfish
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby badfish » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:41 am

mistergoft wrote:While I concur with your sentiments Badfish, I still believe that in this economy that Harvard would be a more advisable decision than NYU. Not that I think that NYU is an irresponsible or even poor decision; that is completely mis-characterizing my argument. NYU is an amazing school, but, it doesn't afford the same opportunities as Harvard and does not all but guarantee you'll be able to repay your debts.


Ya I think we both agree on that point, but I do take issue with the contention that NYU grads won't be able to repay their loans, but that is neither here nor there. OP should go to Harvard.

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:25 am

badfish wrote:
mistergoft wrote:While I concur with your sentiments Badfish, I still believe that in this economy that Harvard would be a more advisable decision than NYU. Not that I think that NYU is an irresponsible or even poor decision; that is completely mis-characterizing my argument. NYU is an amazing school, but, it doesn't afford the same opportunities as Harvard and does not all but guarantee you'll be able to repay your debts.


Ya I think we both agree on that point, but I do take issue with the contention that NYU grads won't be able to repay their loans, but that is neither here nor there. OP should go to Harvard.

Obviously most everyone graduating from law school will be able to repay their loans eventually, even those of us (me) who don't attend the T14 (of course, I don't pay nearly as much). But that's not to say that they don't have severe financial difficulty.

Big Dog
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Big Dog » Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:50 am

'd like to leave the door open for academia...., and higher level federal government jobs.


Academics and government are prestige whores. HLS is the no-brainer.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:33 pm

My goodness, this thread has been something else. I also don't understand the rampant anti-NYU trolling. In OP's situation, I would take the money there in about fifteen seconds, live in the village, and be resplendently happy.

FTR, I also predict a rally for NYC. Of course, I have a stake in it too.

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Reedie
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Reedie » Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:58 pm

If you want to go into Academia you need to start thinking about who you want to work with. Then contact that person and make sure they aren't a totally aloof jerk who will never give a student the time of day. If the best person in the field you want to do is at NYU, then go there. If at Harvard, go there. Academia is just as much about who you've spent time working with as it is where you went. People who haven't worked closely in that field often underestimate this.

One other thing to consider: if you don't want to work at a big firm how you finance your legal education and what kind of support you get at the back end matter. Crunch the numbers, and see if one of the two puts you in a better financial position.

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dbt
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby dbt » Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:33 pm

mistergoft wrote:
dbt wrote:Harvard with full ride.

Any reason dbt, many of us know you did quite well at NYU, has it not afforded you the opportunities you expected?


lol well...that was a joke.

NYU is fine on opportunities, just perform above median. I would imagine you can't say much better for Harvard (bottom 1/3, for instance, is probably screwed, HLS or not). Full ride at NYU should not be passed up, for what I imagine is a 10-15% chance difference in how far employers are dipping into the class. Sticker price, of course go to Harvard.




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