NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

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CG614
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby CG614 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:27 pm

mistergoft wrote:
badfish wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
badfish wrote:
Better opportunities from HLS ≠ not being able to get in a job in any of the 5 boroughs after graduation from NYU

buzz off, troll.

Sorry Badfish I didn't mean for it to come off like that. I meant to say NYU 1Ls substantially below median. I have heard that there are a substantial amount of NYU 2Ls that haven't procured SA positions, which would suggest that they will not be making a Biglaw salary at all. Now, if this is true, what do you suggest that these students are earning and, is it worth going into almost 200k debt (as a non-scholarship student) over going to, say, Fordham, on full scholarship?


It's OK, sorry I got upset but the anti-NYU trolling on these boards is simply egregious.

Clearly the situation is not ideal, ALL of CCN took a major hit (perhaps NYU worse than CC) but there are reasons to think that self selection, along with NYU's LRAP, may have played a role in helping to steer NYU students towards PI and away from BIGLAW.

I agree that you shouldn't go into $200K debt if you have no way of paying it back but it is important to realize that the legal market is in flux. While current market signals seem to indicate that the BIGLAW payment structure will come back it wasn't so long ago that industry experts thought BIGLAW was dead.

With that in mind, current students have a decision to make about the relative importance of institutional clout against the risk of debt. You're betting against an uncertain future and each side of the coin offers certain advantages/disadvantages.

As I pointed out to OP, I actually agree that she should go with Harvard unless she has a full ride to NYU, but to make the claim that the market won't sustain some of the best and brightest students I've ever had the pleasure of working with is just plain wrong.

While I concur with your sentiments Badfish, I still believe that in this economy that Harvard would be a more advisable decision than NYU. Not that I think that NYU is an irresponsible or even poor decision; that is completely mis-characterizing my argument. NYU is an amazing school, but, it doesn't afford the same opportunities as Harvard and does not all but guarantee you'll be able to repay your debts.


While it is prudent to take the economy into account, you need to take the economy of 2013 into account, not today's economy. Odds are we will have made significant recovery by then, which should take this whole business of not being able to secure a job coming from NYU Law crazy talk out of the equation.

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Kronk
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:33 pm

CG614 wrote:While it is prudent to take the economy into account, you need to take the economy of 2013 into account, not today's economy. Odds are we will have made significant recovery by then, which should take this whole business of not being able to secure a job coming from NYU Law crazy talk out of the equation.


I don't agree with this. We will be doing OCI in 2011. That's pretty soon.

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BlueCivic
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby BlueCivic » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:53 pm

Yah its tough for me because i do NOT want Biglaw. If I wanted a big firm job I would definitely take a full ride at NYU (although i actually wouldn't in this specific case because the scholarship would prohibit it).

I don't like the idea of being a full time slave to a huge amoral institution. I value my happiness and intellectual/professional freedom pretty highly.

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Kronk
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:02 pm

BlueCivic wrote:Yah its tough for me because i do NOT want Biglaw. If I wanted a big firm job I would definitely take a full ride at NYU (although i actually wouldn't in this specific case because the scholarship would prohibit it).

I don't like the idea of being a full time slave to a huge amoral institution. I value my happiness and intellectual/professional freedom pretty highly.


I honestly don't know that HLS would be much better than NYU for PI. NYU has better clinics, imo.

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:56 pm

Kronk wrote:
CG614 wrote:While it is prudent to take the economy into account, you need to take the economy of 2013 into account, not today's economy. Odds are we will have made significant recovery by then, which should take this whole business of not being able to secure a job coming from NYU Law crazy talk out of the equation.


I don't agree with this. We will be doing OCI in 2011. That's pretty soon.

Yeah bro, plus the economy isn't improving any time soon, sorry.

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Kronk
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:58 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Kronk wrote:
CG614 wrote:While it is prudent to take the economy into account, you need to take the economy of 2013 into account, not today's economy. Odds are we will have made significant recovery by then, which should take this whole business of not being able to secure a job coming from NYU Law crazy talk out of the equation.


I don't agree with this. We will be doing OCI in 2011. That's pretty soon.

Yeah bro, plus the economy isn't improving any time soon, sorry.


We've been over your lack of RC in the economy situation already, goft.

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:05 pm

Kronk wrote:We've been over your lack of RC in the economy situation already, goft.

I will say that if my economic analysis is a RC fail, I'd be thrilled.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it is. hth.

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Kronk
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:09 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Kronk wrote:We've been over your lack of RC in the economy situation already, goft.

I will say that if my economic analysis is a RC fail, I'd be thrilled.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it is. hth.


Blatant evidence disagrees with you, as we have already pointed out. I suggest rereading Page XXXX of our thread.

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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:12 pm

Kronk wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Kronk wrote:We've been over your lack of RC in the economy situation already, goft.

I will say that if my economic analysis is a RC fail, I'd be thrilled.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it is. hth.


Blatant evidence disagrees with you, as we have already pointed out. I suggest rereading Page XXXX of our thread.

Yeah bro I concede that the economy is recovering, however, employment lags behind other economic recovery and many experts suggest that unemployment will stagnate at ~10% for at least the next couple of years. In any event my comment in relation to the fact that job prospects for the class of 2013 who will have OCI in less than 2 years is at least relatively accurate.

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Kronk
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Kronk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:14 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Kronk wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Kronk wrote:We've been over your lack of RC in the economy situation already, goft.

I will say that if my economic analysis is a RC fail, I'd be thrilled.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it is. hth.


Blatant evidence disagrees with you, as we have already pointed out. I suggest rereading Page XXXX of our thread.

Yeah bro I concede that the economy is recovering, however, employment lags behind other economic recovery and many experts suggest that unemployment will stagnate at ~10% for at least the next couple of years. In any event my comment in relation to the fact that job prospects for the class of 2013 who will have OCI in less than 2 years is at least relatively accurate.


Agreed there.

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CG614
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby CG614 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:26 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Kronk wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Kronk wrote:We've been over your lack of RC in the economy situation already, goft.

I will say that if my economic analysis is a RC fail, I'd be thrilled.

Unfortunately, I do not believe it is. hth.


Blatant evidence disagrees with you, as we have already pointed out. I suggest rereading Page XXXX of our thread.

Yeah bro I concede that the economy is recovering, however, employment lags behind other economic recovery and many experts suggest that unemployment will stagnate at ~10% for at least the next couple of years. In any event my comment in relation to the fact that job prospects for the class of 2013 who will have OCI in less than 2 years is at least relatively accurate.


Quoting experts is great, but those numbers do not apply to all fields. In fact, the workers without advanced degrees have taken the largest hit and those will be the ones to lag the most. As the economy recovers, the legal field should rebound more rapidly than other sectors of the labor force. While nothing is certain, I think looking at the 2010 job market in making a determination of the 2013 job market is not a good practice. Also, while interviews may occur for summer positions in 2011, the market at that time will only bear a weak predictive value for the 2013 job market. And in reality, that is the only one that should matter, because that is when you will enter the workforce, whether you secure an offer in 2011 or the day before graduation.

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:44 pm

CG614 wrote: As the economy recovers, the legal field should rebound more rapidly than other sectors of the labor force.

Do you have any verifiable evidence to support this claim? During the last recession the legal field took quite a while to rebound, although, of course, once it did, well, it did so quite comprehensively.

Renzo
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:49 pm

mistergoft wrote:
CG614 wrote: As the economy recovers, the legal field should rebound more rapidly than other sectors of the labor force.

Do you have any verifiable evidence to support this claim? During the last recession the legal field took quite a while to rebound, although, of course, once it did, well, it did so quite comprehensively.

This thread turned into a waste, so I hesitate to wade in, but you're right to question this assertion. On whole, the legal industry was lagging behind the economy in both job growth and salary growth when it was boom times. I don't think there's any reason to think that it won't recover more slowly than the rest of the economy.

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CG614
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby CG614 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:18 pm

Renzo wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
CG614 wrote: As the economy recovers, the legal field should rebound more rapidly than other sectors of the labor force.

Do you have any verifiable evidence to support this claim? During the last recession the legal field took quite a while to rebound, although, of course, once it did, well, it did so quite comprehensively.

This thread turned into a waste, so I hesitate to wade in, but you're right to question this assertion. On whole, the legal industry was lagging behind the economy in both job growth and salary growth when it was boom times. I don't think there's any reason to think that it won't recover more slowly than the rest of the economy.


LR fail. It lagged during boom times, therefore it will lag during recovery times. How do you draw that connection? Not to mention, quoting the growth rate of attorney salaries in comparison to growth rate of the market as a whole has tons of flaws by itself.

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98234872348
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby 98234872348 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:21 pm

CG614 wrote:
Renzo wrote:This thread turned into a waste, so I hesitate to wade in, but you're right to question this assertion. On whole, the legal industry was lagging behind the economy in both job growth and salary growth when it was boom times. I don't think there's any reason to think that it won't recover more slowly than the rest of the economy.


LR fail. It lagged during boom times, therefore it will lag during recovery times. How do you draw that connection? Not to mention, quoting the growth rate of attorney salaries in comparison to growth rate of the market as a whole has tons of flaws by itself.

I don't think he is suggesting that this inference is definitive, d00d, he is just making an inference based off of historical trends. Calling his argument a LR fail without providing a counterpoint backed by an inference backed by at least a tentative foundation in logic and supported by historical trends is sort of a cop out, btw.

Renzo
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Re: NYU vs HLS for someone who loves NYC

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:05 pm

CG614 wrote:
Renzo wrote:This thread turned into a waste, so I hesitate to wade in, but you're right to question this assertion. On whole, the legal industry was lagging behind the economy in both job growth and salary growth when it was boom times. I don't think there's any reason to think that it won't recover more slowly than the rest of the economy.


LR fail. It lagged during boom times, therefore it will lag during recovery times. How do you draw that connection? Not to mention, quoting the growth rate of attorney salaries in comparison to growth rate of the market as a whole has tons of flaws by itself.

Yep. Thread's pretty much a waste. I knew better.




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