Villanova v. Pitt

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby seespotrun » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:07 pm

nooyyllib wrote:oh dont worry, im not believing the 30% at all.

i saw the law.com link before so i look at the 16.7% more. So basically if I wanna do biglaw I have to be top 10-15% of the class.


Yes and no. It depends on how you define biglaw. There are some firms in the Philly area that pay near market (Philly adjusted) outside of the NLJ250. However, I would not want to go into OCI outside of the top 10%-15%.

User avatar
mikeyp
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:07 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby mikeyp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:12 pm

you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.

EDIT: to add, the 16.7% stat is unclear and misleading, leading to many more assumptions. according to the poster, it is out of the total class size. but how many people were in the pool to be hired? that would be a more relevant statistic. because if you attend villanova, you also understand that a large portion of this school is very interested in public interest jobs and are not even going for big law jobs. so for these purposes, the relevant pool is the top 30%, not the entire class. so if you were to assume 16.7% from that report, knowing that the denominator is incorrect, it is a floor and not a ceiling. this further shows that top 10-15% is not a fair estimate.
Last edited by mikeyp on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby seespotrun » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:16 pm

mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?

jimicornerstone
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby jimicornerstone » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:18 pm

seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?



Maybe, possibly they consider other elements of a person besides grades. Maybe.

User avatar
mikeyp
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:07 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby mikeyp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:20 pm

seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?

which firm are you talking about? there are a lot of firms, all of different caliber, which interview at different ranges, not exclusively at the top 15%.

and to respond to your question, firms interview outside their desired range, because they just don't know who is going to be a better fit. but i concede, as any rational person would, that there is a strong preference for better grades. but i don't think that surprises anyone here.

look, i'm not saying you are incorrect, because the fact is we just don't know. but at this point, you haven't offered any reason as to why i'm incorrect in saying top 30%, except for the constant fear mongering that is prevalent on this forum.

jimicornerstone wrote:Maybe, possibly they consider other elements of a person besides grades. Maybe.


+1
Last edited by mikeyp on Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby seespotrun » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:22 pm

mikeyp wrote:
seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?

which firm are you talking about? there are a lot of firms, all of different caliber, which interview at different ranges, not exclusively at the top 15%.

and to respond to your question, firms interview outside their desired range, because they just don't know who is going to be a better fit. but i concede, as any rational person would, that there is a strong preference for better grades. but i don't think that surprises anyone here.


Yes, but it might surprise the 0L who may have been banking on boats and hoes if he landed in the top 30%.

User avatar
mikeyp
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:07 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby mikeyp » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:23 pm

seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:
seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?

which firm are you talking about? there are a lot of firms, all of different caliber, which interview at different ranges, not exclusively at the top 15%.

and to respond to your question, firms interview outside their desired range, because they just don't know who is going to be a better fit. but i concede, as any rational person would, that there is a strong preference for better grades. but i don't think that surprises anyone here.


Yes, but it might surprise the 0L who may have been banking on boats and hoes if he landed in the top 30%.

Haha, can't argue with that. But anyone banking on boats and hoes needs a serious reality check, in which case they are here for the wrong reasons. And those people I do not care about.

User avatar
seespotrun
Posts: 2395
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:36 am

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby seespotrun » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:25 pm

jimicornerstone wrote:
seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?



Maybe, possibly they consider other elements of a person besides grades. Maybe.


Sure, but if we are making generalizations in advice forums..................

If you were Mr. Universe, co-authored a law review article as a 13 year-old, and have I-Banking experience, then feel free to bank on top third.

jimicornerstone
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:29 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby jimicornerstone » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:31 pm

seespotrun wrote:
jimicornerstone wrote:
seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?



Maybe, possibly they consider other elements of a person besides grades. Maybe.


Sure, but if we are making generalizations in advice forums..................

If you were Mr. Universe, co-authored a law review article as a 13 year-old, and have I-Banking experience, then feel free to bank on top third.


Yeah I already actually got a J.D. in my tweens and then focused on body sculpting for awhile. I'm just doing this one for shits and giggles. I-Banking sounds boring.

User avatar
Spaceman Spiff
Posts: 129
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:59 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby Spaceman Spiff » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:33 pm

I was reading a blog and came across this article written by the chairman and global managing partner of K&L Gates. The article is a long complaint regarding the USNWR rankings. However, there is substantial discussion of Pitt Law (and schools like it).

From the article:

"I am a graduate of Yale Law School. It was and is a great place -- but it's no Pitt Law. Yale Law is the same tiny size it was 50 years ago -- about 165 students per class. The 50 largest law firms in the country now employ about 65,000 lawyers. Yale Law today, sad to say, is quantitatively beside the point to most of the country's leading law firms. And, of course, 'Yale Law' is merely a metaphor that embraces Harvard, Stanford, Chicago and the other "designer" law schools whose entering class sizes are frozen in time like the fetching smile of a prom date you haven't seen in 40 years.

"Consider the impact of the real Pitt Law on my firm. We have 29 partners and 60 lawyers overall who are graduates of Pitt Law. It has supplied us with a global development partner, a global general counsel, a global head of litigation and the managing partner of one of our largest offices. It trains great leaders as well as great lawyers not only because ideas matter there, but also because emotional intelligence and analytical intelligence go hand in hand. It doesn't sit well with me when Pitt Law is unfairly maligned."

The rest of the article is interesting as well. I particularly like this quote:

"If you are a beleaguered law school dean, know that this customer pays not a damn bit of attention to the U.S. News ranking -- nor should your applicant pool. "

Reminding us all that the only numbers that matter are employment stats.

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter/lawArticleCareerCenter.jsp?id=1202427136135&rss=newswire

stayway
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 am

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby stayway » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:38 pm

seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:
seespotrun wrote:
mikeyp wrote:you all seem to be reading into my statements way too far and making too many assumptions, so let me clarify.

top 30% gives you the prerequisite in grades. this gets an interview. does this mean you get the job? absolutely not! do you have a better shot being in the top 10-15%? the logic i am familiar with points to yes. but when we're talking about "where in the class do i need to be to get a big law job," the answer is top 30%.


Maybe that's the answer to the question: Where do I need to be in the class to get a biglaw interview? Even with this, I disagree. If the firm is going to give offers to 5 VLS students, why would they interview outside of the top 15%?

which firm are you talking about? there are a lot of firms, all of different caliber, which interview at different ranges, not exclusively at the top 15%.

and to respond to your question, firms interview outside their desired range, because they just don't know who is going to be a better fit. but i concede, as any rational person would, that there is a strong preference for better grades. but i don't think that surprises anyone here.


Yes, but it might surprise the 0L who may have been banking on boats and hoes if he landed in the top 30%.


LoL

boats and hoes? I only care about cold hard cash i dont' care. I'm being honest right now. and i repeat i dont believe in the top 30% suggestion.

stayway
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 am

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby stayway » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:42 pm

OK and let me redefined what i think biglaw is.

when i say biglaw, I dont mean the extremely prestigious firms like cravath. when i mention biglaw i mean making over 100k out of law school. It could be a medium size firm, a boutique firm. and looking at the alumni spread in philly from villanova, I'm liking villanova a little more at this point.

more discussion the better.

thanks !

User avatar
jack duluoz
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:26 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby jack duluoz » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:54 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I was reading a blog and came across this article written by the chairman and global managing partner of K&L Gates. The article is a long complaint regarding the USNWR rankings. However, there is substantial discussion of Pitt Law (and schools like it).

From the article:

"I am a graduate of Yale Law School. It was and is a great place -- but it's no Pitt Law. Yale Law is the same tiny size it was 50 years ago -- about 165 students per class. The 50 largest law firms in the country now employ about 65,000 lawyers. Yale Law today, sad to say, is quantitatively beside the point to most of the country's leading law firms. And, of course, 'Yale Law' is merely a metaphor that embraces Harvard, Stanford, Chicago and the other "designer" law schools whose entering class sizes are frozen in time like the fetching smile of a prom date you haven't seen in 40 years.

"Consider the impact of the real Pitt Law on my firm. We have 29 partners and 60 lawyers overall who are graduates of Pitt Law. It has supplied us with a global development partner, a global general counsel, a global head of litigation and the managing partner of one of our largest offices. It trains great leaders as well as great lawyers not only because ideas matter there, but also because emotional intelligence and analytical intelligence go hand in hand. It doesn't sit well with me when Pitt Law is unfairly maligned."

The rest of the article is interesting as well. I particularly like this quote:

"If you are a beleaguered law school dean, know that this customer pays not a damn bit of attention to the U.S. News ranking -- nor should your applicant pool. "

Reminding us all that the only numbers that matter are employment stats.

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter/lawArticleCareerCenter.jsp?id=1202427136135&rss=newswire


thanks for posting. That's a pretty good nod from a prominent lawyer.

nooyyllib wrote:OK and let me redefined what i think biglaw is.

when i say biglaw, I dont mean the extremely prestigious firms like cravath. when i mention biglaw i mean making over 100k out of law school. It could be a medium size firm, a boutique firm. and looking at the alumni spread in philly from villanova, I'm liking villanova a little more at this point.

more discussion the better.

thanks !


Not sure if u want to hear this, but I think it's going to come down to your grades. To get a ~100k job at graduation you'll need to be stellar at either school. The window of class rank u need to fall into may be slightly better at one school than the other, but ultimately it's going to be very small and shouldnt be a deciding factor in your decision. If both schools cost the same, then just choose the place you'd rather spend three years of your life or which city you'd prefer to live after graduation.

stayway
Posts: 1275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 am

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby stayway » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:59 pm

jack duluoz wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I was reading a blog and came across this article written by the chairman and global managing partner of K&L Gates. The article is a long complaint regarding the USNWR rankings. However, there is substantial discussion of Pitt Law (and schools like it).

From the article:

"I am a graduate of Yale Law School. It was and is a great place -- but it's no Pitt Law. Yale Law is the same tiny size it was 50 years ago -- about 165 students per class. The 50 largest law firms in the country now employ about 65,000 lawyers. Yale Law today, sad to say, is quantitatively beside the point to most of the country's leading law firms. And, of course, 'Yale Law' is merely a metaphor that embraces Harvard, Stanford, Chicago and the other "designer" law schools whose entering class sizes are frozen in time like the fetching smile of a prom date you haven't seen in 40 years.

"Consider the impact of the real Pitt Law on my firm. We have 29 partners and 60 lawyers overall who are graduates of Pitt Law. It has supplied us with a global development partner, a global general counsel, a global head of litigation and the managing partner of one of our largest offices. It trains great leaders as well as great lawyers not only because ideas matter there, but also because emotional intelligence and analytical intelligence go hand in hand. It doesn't sit well with me when Pitt Law is unfairly maligned."

The rest of the article is interesting as well. I particularly like this quote:

"If you are a beleaguered law school dean, know that this customer pays not a damn bit of attention to the U.S. News ranking -- nor should your applicant pool. "

Reminding us all that the only numbers that matter are employment stats.

http://www.law.com/jsp/law/careercenter/lawArticleCareerCenter.jsp?id=1202427136135&rss=newswire


thanks for posting. That's a pretty good nod from a prominent lawyer.

nooyyllib wrote:OK and let me redefined what i think biglaw is.

when i say biglaw, I dont mean the extremely prestigious firms like cravath. when i mention biglaw i mean making over 100k out of law school. It could be a medium size firm, a boutique firm. and looking at the alumni spread in philly from villanova, I'm liking villanova a little more at this point.

more discussion the better.

thanks !


Not sure if u want to hear this, but I think it's going to come down to your grades. To get a ~100k job at graduation you'll need to be stellar at either school. The window of class rank u need to fall into may be slightly better at one school than the other, but ultimately it's going to be very small and shouldnt be a deciding factor in your decision. If both schools cost the same, then just choose the place you'd rather spend three years of your life or which city you'd prefer to live after graduation.


thats why im going to visit

User avatar
redsox8105
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby redsox8105 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:28 pm

Pitt 1L here, willing to take some questions. Love the school, love the city, love the people, hate my appellate brief (which I am procrastinating on).

User avatar
FunkyJD
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:34 pm

redsox8105 wrote:Pitt 1L here, willing to take some questions. Love the school, love the city, love the people, hate my appellate brief (which I am procrastinating on).

Thanks. Here's mine:

1. Describe the Oakland neighborhood surrounding the school. What do 1BRs tend to go for in this area?
1a. Which areas do most law students tend to live?

2. How's the parking situation on campus? Are permit sales restricted by class (priority for 2Ls and 3Ls, as in some schools), or are they generally available for anyone who wants to purchase one?

3. Is there a coffee shop/cafe in the law school building? Closest Starbucks?

4. Favorite 1L professor and class?

5. What do you like about Pitt? What do you wish were different about it?

User avatar
redsox8105
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby redsox8105 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:37 pm

1. Describe the Oakland neighborhood surrounding the school. What do 1BRs tend to go for in this area?
The area surrounding the school is pretty urban. Basically, it's right on a major street (Forbes Ave.), so there's plenty of "stuff" in the immediate area. Walk around on Google Maps a bit, I did that before I came and it gives a pretty accurate feel for the area. I think a 1B in Oakland goes anywhere in the $450-750 range. The apartments immediately in Oakland and South Oakland are probably 90% undergrad students, though, leading right into...

1a. Which areas do most law students tend to live?
Almost all my friends live in Shadyside, North Oakland, or Squirrel Hill, with Shadyside probably being the most popular for grad students. Apartments in those areas can range from a low end of $550ish for a studio to $1000ish for a nice 1BR. However, most 1BR are in the $700-800 range. I'm paying $850/month with utilities (minus electricity) included for my apartment. Shadyside is an awesome place to live with lots of young professionals and young families, lots of popular restaurants and bars, four grocery stores in a 2-mile radius (two Giant Eagle's, a Trader Joe's, and a Whole Foods, two Starbucks', Panera, Border's, basically anything you need, and it's all very close and walkable. Squirrel Hill is equally nice with lots to do.

2. How's the parking situation on campus? Are permit sales restricted by class (priority for 2Ls and 3Ls, as in some schools), or are they generally available for anyone who wants to purchase one?
There's no law parking lot or anything, just street parking around the school. I'm pretty sure you get a parking pass through the main university and they're kind of pricey, though not limited by class (you would need to check on this, I don't drive to school). There's also a parking garage next door to the school which is like $15 a day or something and a $4 parking lot a 5-minute walk away. However, you get free public transportation with your Pitt ID, so just about everybody takes the bus. It's a huuuge perk, since you never have to worry about getting around the city on any form of public transportation. My bus ride from Shadyside is 10-20 minutes depending on the traffic (40ish minute walk). Squirrel Hill is about the same. North Oakland probably 5-10 minutes, also walkable.

3. Is there a coffee shop/cafe in the law school building? Closest Starbucks?
There's a Panera next door, a Starbucks the next block, Bruegger's the next block, 7/11 down the street, another Starbucks, a couple local coffee shops... we law students drink a lot of coffee, I've gotten to know these places well.

4. Favorite 1L professor and class?
Tough one. If you get Frolik for Torts he'll scare the crap out of you the first few weeks with his super Socratic Method and scary demeanor, but you'll loosen up (especially after you get called on) and come to absolutely love the guy, like we all did. He's absolutely brilliant and you will learn a ton. He's also freakin' hilarious. I'm pretty sure he intentionally freaks out new 1L's to get them to pay attention to the cases and listen in class. He's a softy at heart. Other than him, McCarthy is a blast to have Crim with. You can relax in his class and he's also quite hilarious. I will warn you that most of the classes are pretty boring and there isn't much a professor can do about it.

5. What do you like about Pitt? What do you wish were different about it?
Sounds corny, but I really do like the people here. You'll quickly become friends with your class (kind of inevitable when you're stuck with them all day, all week), and if they're anything like my section, they're pretty cool/interesting people. I've fallen in love with the city. Even though I'm from a different state and have only lived here half a year, I would gladly spend the rest of my life in Pittsburgh (seriously). It somehow both feels like a big city and doesn't at the same time. As for what I would change... it'd be nice if the law school building had a few more windows. The building in general is plenty nice enough, just not much to write home about. However, that really doesn't matter much.

User avatar
pjo
Posts: 610
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:14 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby pjo » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:56 pm

redsox, I was wondering if you could say a little about the type of work some of your fellow 1L's (or yourself) have lined up for this summer.

User avatar
FunkyJD
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:59 pm

This is really helpful.

I've also noticed that Pitt, for the 1L core, has two criminal law classes ... criminal law and criminal procedure, I believe. it seems that most schools usually have one. What'd you think of that? (Criminal law isn't something I'm interested in, so I'm not sure what to make of two criminal law classes in the core.)

Also didn't notice a legal research core class -- basically class on legal analysis and writing, and "legal process." Do you learn about legal research in your analysis core class, or are there separate electives if we want to get more experience with legal research? Or, are you feeling pretty well set on that end through your core classes?

Finally ... you said you're from a different state. How did you adjust to the weather (assuming you're from outside the Midwest or the Northeast). I'm pretty much a Southern/Western person, and have heard different things about the weather in Pittsburgh. Am I going to need some mood elevators, or am I going to be alright? How dreary is the weather overall? :)

Mega, mega thanks for your thoughts.

User avatar
redsox8105
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby redsox8105 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:43 pm

pjo wrote:redsox, I was wondering if you could say a little about the type of work some of your fellow 1L's (or yourself) have lined up for this summer.

Here's a random sampling of people I know (including myself, to retain some anonymity): Two are doing research for professors, one is working for a school organization, one is working in his hometown for a small firm, a couple interning for public interest orgs, a couple for a government org, still others with applications still pending. For whatever reason nobody seems too concerned about finding work, even if maybe they should be.

User avatar
redsox8105
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby redsox8105 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:07 pm

FunkyJD wrote:This is really helpful.

I've also noticed that Pitt, for the 1L core, has two criminal law classes ... criminal law and criminal procedure, I believe. it seems that most schools usually have one. What'd you think of that? (Criminal law isn't something I'm interested in, so I'm not sure what to make of two criminal law classes in the core.)

Also didn't notice a legal research core class -- basically class on legal analysis and writing, and "legal process." Do you learn about legal research in your analysis core class, or are there separate electives if we want to get more experience with legal research? Or, are you feeling pretty well set on that end through your core classes?

Finally ... you said you're from a different state. How did you adjust to the weather (assuming you're from outside the Midwest or the Northeast). I'm pretty much a Southern/Western person, and have heard different things about the weather in Pittsburgh. Am I going to need some mood elevators, or am I going to be alright? How dreary is the weather overall? :)

Mega, mega thanks for your thoughts.

Happy to help... and coincidentally, avoid doing work.

Criminal Procedure is a little deceiving - it's not really a criminal law class, it's actually a Con Law class disguised as a crim class. Basically, it covers the areas of the Bill of Rights that a normal Con Law doesn't really cover in-depth. It is all in the criminal context though - illegal searches and seizures, right to jury, etc.

You learn legal research in the writing class - most places call this class "Legal Research and Writing" while ours is called "Legal Analysis and Writing," for whatever reason. Don't worry, they're the same. You also have to take another one-credit research class 2nd year. I feel like I've learned plenty about research, though there are electives you can take as well. Legal Process is something different altogether - basically it's the first half of a Civil Procedure class as well as some helpful stuff about the legal system in general. Then you get the second half of Civ Pro second semester (spoiler alert: 2nd semester is reaaally boring).

As for the weather, I'm from a colder region than Pittsburgh, so it's not bothering me! We actually got hammered with snow this winter, I believe the 2nd most in the city's history or something. It rains a fair share but it's also really nice quite often too. The past two days have been absolutely gorgeous, for example, and the rest of the week is supposed to be the same. I don't find it too depressing, but if you're coming from SoCal or something you're probably in for a slight adjustment. I know a few people from the South and they seem to be surviving! My advice would be to visit if you can, see how you like it.

User avatar
FunkyJD
Posts: 1039
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby FunkyJD » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:16 pm

redsox, you are the man! FWIW, every interaction I've had with a Pitt student or staffer has been friendly, helpful, and first-class. There are definitely some schools where that is not the class, and I'm sure we've all had experiences with them, so I believe that says something. So thanks, I really appreciate it.

User avatar
redsox8105
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby redsox8105 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:33 pm

Not a problem. This place is most definitely not super competitive in the least - I was really surprised at just how damn helpful everyone is to each other. We're graded on a curve, obviously, but you wouldn't know it by the atmosphere here. Plus bar review is always a good time! Anywho, hope to see you here next year, let me know if you have any other questions.

User avatar
mikeyp
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:07 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby mikeyp » Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:02 am

jack duluoz wrote:Not sure if u want to hear this, but I think it's going to come down to your grades. To get a ~100k job at graduation you'll need to be stellar at either school. The window of class rank u need to fall into may be slightly better at one school than the other, but ultimately it's going to be very small and shouldnt be a deciding factor in your decision. If both schools cost the same, then just choose the place you'd rather spend three years of your life or which city you'd prefer to live after graduation.

+1

Colton
Posts: 53
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:00 pm

Re: Villanova v. Pitt

Postby Colton » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:08 pm

nooyyllib wrote:oh dont worry, im not believing the 30% at all.

i saw the law.com link before so i look at the 16.7% more. So basically if I wanna do biglaw I have to be top 10-15% of the class.


Just to be clear, many student who academically could get biglaw do not want it because they either 1. got a good scholarship so they dont have to make the big bucks to pay back loans 2. Dont want the life style of biglaw 3. are interested in public interest or government work, or some combination of those 3.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], carlos_danger, dannyswo and 1 guest