UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

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baboon309
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby baboon309 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:13 pm

msv5010 wrote:someone recently posted would have been about top33% this semester. I definitely don't want to get stuck paying sticker.


Not true. I've already posted it many time. Why dont you search the forum first

msv5010
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby msv5010 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:17 pm

Maybe I'm wrong and you're welcome to correct me. However, someone recently put up the UM statistics for I believe this past semester that had the median at about 3.0. and top 33% starting at 3.2X. Again, maybe I read it wrong or made some other mistake, so you're welcome to show me I'm wrong. It would even make me feel better about UM.

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Grizz
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Grizz » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:26 pm

OP, forgot you were a FL resident, and I also forgot you weren't paying sticker at Miami. Still, I would definitely go to Florida. Save money and have basically equal career prospects.

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darknightbegins
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby darknightbegins » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:00 pm

Hah thats right, we got off to arguing so much that I forgot some of the details the OP had originally myself! With a 23K scholarship OP is looking probably at around same price as instate for Florida. However, OP has scholarship stipulations. That being the case I would probably take Florida also in this scenario. Possibly save a few thousand dollars and still have a good shot at South Florida, in my opinion not quite as good as if you just went to Miami, but certainly still good none the less.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby msv5010 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:50 pm

Just wanted to follow up on my earlier post. According to this link the median for spring 2009 was 3.016. This from the "In at UMiami thread." Don't know how you get much more official. But if I'm still wrong, let me know.

--LinkRemoved--

lawduder
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby lawduder » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:52 pm

darknightbegins wrote:Hah thats right, we got off to arguing so much that I forgot some of the details the OP had originally myself! With a 23K scholarship OP is looking probably at around same price as instate for Florida. However, OP has scholarship stipulations. That being the case I would probably take Florida also in this scenario. Possibly save a few thousand dollars and still have a good shot at South Florida, in my opinion not quite as good as if you just went to Miami, but certainly still good none the less.

:?

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Lomax
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Lomax » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:44 am

msv5010 wrote:On the subject of gaining residency after 1L...

University of Florida was my top choice when I started the cycle. I plan on going into tax law and I would love to practice in Florida, so UF would be a great option for me if I get in. However, when I went to the LSAC Forum in NYC, I asked the Florida rep what my chances are of gaining residency after my first year. The rep told me she highly doubted I could get instate tuition while in law school because of the strict rules they set. I told the rep that I have a residence in Naples, would move down there year-round, and do everything necessary, but the rep said it likely wouldn't matter. With this is mind my plans have changed and I am not sure how I feel about UF now. I also thought it was weird the FSU basically guaranteed instate after 1L when I asked.

If anyone has had success with the process I'd love to hear about it so I can make UF one of my top choices again (if I get in).


Might I ask why you haven't taken the time to find out what exactly is required to gain Florida residency yourself? It would seem very much in your interest to do so, and you can expect to be researching far more complex issues than that in law school and after you graduate from it, so for what reason do you continue to rely on hearsay?

minuit
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby minuit » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:52 am

Lomax wrote:
msv5010 wrote:On the subject of gaining residency after 1L...

University of Florida was my top choice when I started the cycle. I plan on going into tax law and I would love to practice in Florida, so UF would be a great option for me if I get in. However, when I went to the LSAC Forum in NYC, I asked the Florida rep what my chances are of gaining residency after my first year. The rep told me she highly doubted I could get instate tuition while in law school because of the strict rules they set. I told the rep that I have a residence in Naples, would move down there year-round, and do everything necessary, but the rep said it likely wouldn't matter. With this is mind my plans have changed and I am not sure how I feel about UF now. I also thought it was weird the FSU basically guaranteed instate after 1L when I asked.

If anyone has had success with the process I'd love to hear about it so I can make UF one of my top choices again (if I get in).


Might I ask why you haven't taken the time to find out what exactly is required to gain Florida residency yourself? It would seem very much in your interest to do so, and you can expect to be researching far more complex issues than that in law school and after you graduate from it, so for what reason do you continue to rely on hearsay?


I agree, research and look into it yourself! I personally never trust what representatives or whoever tell me, because they don't care if the info is right or wrong, it doesn't affect them! My sister always goes by hear-say and gets screwed over. But anyway, FSU and UF should have the same residency requirements, and if you already own a residence in Naples I honestly don't see how you can't obtain residency, especially if you plan on staying and practicing in FL once you graduate. I really think that UF rep was BSing you.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Lomax » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:04 am

lawduder wrote:
darknightbegins wrote:Hah thats right, we got off to arguing so much that I forgot some of the details the OP had originally myself! With a 23K scholarship OP is looking probably at around same price as instate for Florida. However, OP has scholarship stipulations. That being the case I would probably take Florida also in this scenario. Possibly save a few thousand dollars and still have a good shot at South Florida, in my opinion not quite as good as if you just went to Miami, but certainly still good none the less.

:?


Well put, lawduder. Darknightbegins' opinion continues to be based almost entirely on his hunch that because UM is located in Miami and floods the South Florida market with graduates, it must give its graduates a better chance of success in South Florida than UF. That and his idea that quality of life matters a great deal in making a decision on where to attend law school. He has responded to all of the overwhelming logic and fact-based arguments we have presented in favor of UF with little if anything to sway the reasonably-minded (almost exclusively variations of his tired stronghold and quality of life arguments). I am finished discussing with him, and hope that nobody will be tragically misled by his ill-informed and unevidenced opinion. However, I will provide the following for further consideration.

The NALP allows one to search schools for recent on-campus interviewers here: --LinkRemoved--

As you can see, UF had 40 different firms interviewing on campus, versus 30 for UM. Despite UM being located in Miami, UM had only 3 more Miami employers interview on campus than UF did, and one of those was Legal Services of Greater Miami, Inc. The U.S. Department of Transportation Honors Attorney Program interviews at many of the most prestigious law schools across the nation, including Harvard and Yale. It interviewed on campus at UF. It did not bother with UM.

msv5010 wrote:Just wanted to follow up on my earlier post. According to this link the median for spring 2009 was 3.016. This from the "In at UMiami thread." Don't know how you get much more official. But if I'm still wrong, let me know.

--LinkRemoved--


Brilliant find. Everyone taking the $69,000 from UM for granted needs to see this. Has your opinion changed, darknightbegins?

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby darknightbegins » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:14 am

Lomax wrote:
lawduder wrote:
darknightbegins wrote:Hah thats right, we got off to arguing so much that I forgot some of the details the OP had originally myself! With a 23K scholarship OP is looking probably at around same price as instate for Florida. However, OP has scholarship stipulations. That being the case I would probably take Florida also in this scenario. Possibly save a few thousand dollars and still have a good shot at South Florida, in my opinion not quite as good as if you just went to Miami, but certainly still good none the less.

:?


Well put, lawduder. Darknightbegins' opinion continues to be based almost entirely on his hunch that because UM is located in Miami and floods the South Florida market with graduates, it must give its graduates a better chance of success in South Florida than UF. That and his idea that quality of life matters a great deal in making a decision on where to attend law school. He has responded to all of the overwhelming logic and fact-based arguments we have presented in favor of UF with little if anything to sway the reasonably-minded (almost exclusively variations of his tired stronghold and quality of life arguments). I am finished discussing with him, and hope that nobody will be tragically misled by his ill-informed and unevidenced opinion. However, I will provide the following for further consideration.

The NALP allows one to search schools for recent on-campus interviewers here: --LinkRemoved--

As you can see, UF had 40 different firms interviewing on campus, versus 30 for UM. Despite UM being located in Miami, UM had only 3 more Miami employers interview on campus than UF did, and one of those was Legal Services of Greater Miami, Inc. The U.S. Department of Transportation Honors Attorney Program interviews at many of the most prestigious law schools across the nation, including Harvard and Yale. It interviewed on campus at UF. It did not bother with UM.

msv5010 wrote:Just wanted to follow up on my earlier post. According to this link the median for spring 2009 was 3.016. This from the "In at UMiami thread." Don't know how you get much more official. But if I'm still wrong, let me know.

--LinkRemoved--


Brilliant find. Everyone taking the $69,000 from UM for granted needs to see this. Has your opinion changed, darknightbegins?


So you ignore the fact I mentioned in a previous post Miami and UF are very similar in several categories according to LSN? How can you say I have no evidence? The bar passage rate is identical, student to faculty ratio is close, employment statistics after graduation is close, median starting salary, paying three years of out of state tuition at UF is almost the same as paying 3 years at Miami, cost of living is about 4 thousand dollars more per year than UF as well as other categories which I mentioned in a previous post. All of these suggest two schools that appear pretty equal. I guess none of that constitutes evidence that a fair minded person would be interested in. With two schools that appear this equal then yeah I am going to next look at quality of life. I don't see why you can't look at that for a tie break when you have statistically two schools that are this close together.

As to what it is like to get in state tuition. What incentive would admissions have to lie about something as important as money to students when they know this lie is likely to scare some potential students off? Are they all just that incompotent? I have yet to see any of you post any information that disputes what the admission officer told a previous poster. I have no idea what it takes to get in state tuition for UF for an out of state person, but so far the only person that has any information on the subject said that admissions told him/her it would be very difficult. If any of you can produce a document that disputes this I am more than open to it. Thus far all anyone has been able to say is that it should be easy to qualify in state without providing a list of the requirements. Until someone can do this I will err with the side of a recruiter whose job it is to get students to attend the college. If anything the recruiter should lie about how good the school is in order to attract more students not the reverse.

As for employers, I never disputed that Florida would be better throughout the state, just in south florida I give the edge to Miami, and as the link you provided shows, UM did have more Miami interviewers on campus than Florida did. I'm not sure if any of this is evidence of how well a UM grad will place over a UF grad, but I'll indulge your arguement.

Overall the OP knows that at least for the first year they will be getting 23k off sticker at Miami and the first year they will be paying out of state tuition at Florida. Right there they are already saving money. As I have already said before, if you can get in state tuition at Florida for the last two years I would likely take that as the 23k scholarship has requirements that, while not impossible to meet, are difficult and are not guranteed. However, if like the admission person said and no one has been able to show how the admission person is mistaken with evidence yet, I would take Miami. You know that at least the first year you will be getting 23K off, you will at least place as will in South Florida as a UF grade, and if you lose the scholarship and have to pay the sticker the last two years overall you will still be saving money over paying 3 years of out of state tuition for Florida.

All of the arguements I have made about how the schools are similar statistically are backed up by facts. The OP is getting 23K off sticker at Miami which is a fact and at least paying out of state tution the first year at Florida which is a fact. Therefore, at least for the first year, OP is saving money by going to Miami. Another poser said the admission officer said you will have a hard time getting in state tuition at Florida, I'm not sure if this is a fact or not but I have read in other posts where people have said the same thing and I have called LSU and was told the same thing so I know there are other state schools that are hard asses about this kind of thing. I have no reason to doubt any of these admissions or recruiters are lying unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary. OP wants to be in South Florida, OP is saving money at least the first year by going to Miami and will place at least as well in South Florida going to Miami if not somewhat better. The only part of my arguement that is purely based on my own opinion is that I think Miami would be a better place to spend 3 years than the swamp. If you don't agree, like I have said before, that is fine as it is simply a personal preference.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Lomax » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:29 am

Why isn't there a head-against-wall smiley? I know I said I was done with darknightbegins, but the problem here is that there is no judge to bring these proceedings to a definitive close, and the jury is always listening, so I feel obligated to respond. Point by point. And after this, darknightbegins, let's be done with it - please. You won't have any more room to argue without repeating fallacies, anyway.

darknightbegins wrote:So you ignore the fact I mentioned in a previous post Miami and UF are very similar in several categories according to LSN? How can you say I have no evidence? The bar passage rate is identical, student to faculty ratio is close, employment statistics after graduation is close, median starting salary, paying three years of out of state tuition at UF is almost the same as paying 3 years at Miami, cost of living is about 4 thousand dollars more per year than UF as well as other categories which I mentioned in a previous post. All of these suggest two schools that appear pretty equal. I guess none of that constitutes evidence that a fair minded person would be interested in. With two schools that appear this equal then yeah I am going to next look at quality of life. I don't see why you can't look at that for a tie break when you have statistically two schools that are this close together.


No, I don't ignore any facts, quite unlike you. What evidence you provide does not serve to support your claim that UM is better than UF. It simply furthers your argument that UM is competitive with UF in South Florida, a point which is not in contention. You have brought in some new "evidence" here, claims of median starting salary and job placement being close between the two, but I have already made the point that published data of this nature is prone to manipulation and cannot be trusted. We must look to other more concrete employment-related evidence, such as OCI info, which puts UF markedly ahead. Even if salary and school-reported job placement data could be trusted, the data still does not support your unfounded claim that UM is better than UF in South Florida if it only puts the two schools on par with each other. You go on to "tie break" with quality of life, which would be well and good if tie breaking wasn't entirely a non-issue, given that UM is not on par with UF in terms of the dollar value (given that UF is significantly cheaper than UM, any way you look at it) and employment prospects it presents to its graduates on the whole. UM offers no discernible advantage over UF, as far as you have evidenced, other than three years of close proximity to South Beach. If you don't think that's true, ask somebody else. They'll tell you otherwise.

darknightbegins wrote:As to what it is like to get in state tuition. What incentive would admissions have to lie about something as important as money to students when they know this lie is likely to scare some potential students off? Are they all just that incompotent? I have yet to see any of you post any information that disputes what the admission officer told a previous poster. I have no idea what it takes to get in state tuition for UF for an out of state person, but so far the only person that has any information on the subject said that admissions told him/her it would be very difficult. If any of you can produce a document that disputes this I am more than open to it. Thus far all anyone has been able to say is that it should be easy to qualify in state without providing a list of the requirements. Until someone can do this I will err with the side of a recruiter whose job it is to get students to attend the college. If anything the recruiter should lie about how good the school is in order to attract more students not the reverse.


Am I the out-of-stater who is pinning his or her decision on whether or not to accept admission at UF on eligibility for residency? No. Therefore, I have no reason to spend my time looking up the school policy or state law that would specify in writing what the requirements are. I really don't give a damn about what your stance on this issue is, and for you to expect me to produce some document of clarification for you - when you aren't even considering UF yourself - is beyond absurd. Common sense tells me that a law school would find itself in hot water if it flat-out lied to prospective students on its official website. UF's official website says that virtually all out-of-staters get in-state tuition after one year. A simple phone call to the Office of Admissions from whoever needs a document of clarification would seem to be sufficient to put this matter to rest, and I suspect that document would confirm that residency is relatively easy to achieve after all.

darknightbegins wrote:As for employers, I never disputed that Florida would be better throughout the state, just in south florida I give the edge to Miami, and as the link you provided shows, UM did have more Miami interviewers on campus than Florida did. I'm not sure if any of this is evidence of how well a UM grad will place over a UF grad, but I'll indulge your arguement.


UM had only two more Miami firms interviewing on campus than UF did. The difference is negligible. Even if UM and UF are even in South Florida, as this information might suggest, UF's overwhelming advantage in the rest of Florida and, therefore, overall - which you acknowledge - has to put ahead of UM as a choice of law school.

darknightbegins wrote:Overall the OP knows that at least for the first year they will be getting 23k off sticker at Miami and the first year they will be paying out of state tuition at Florida. Right there they are already saving money. As I have already said before, if you can get in state tuition at Florida for the last two years I would likely take that as the 23k scholarship has requirements that, while not impossible to meet, are difficult and are not guranteed. However, if like the admission person said and no one has been able to show how the admission person is mistaken with evidence yet, I would take Miami. You know that at least the first year you will be getting 23K off, you will at least place as will in South Florida as a UF grade, and if you lose the scholarship and have to pay the sticker the last two years overall you will still be saving money over paying 3 years of out of state tuition for Florida.

All of the arguements I have made about how the schools are similar statistically are backed up by facts. The OP is getting 23K off sticker at Miami which is a fact and at least paying out of state tution the first year at Florida which is a fact. Therefore, at least for the first year, OP is saving money by going to Miami. Another poser said the admission officer said you will have a hard time getting in state tuition at Florida, I'm not sure if this is a fact or not but I have read in other posts where people have said the same thing and I have called LSU and was told the same thing so I know there are other state schools that are hard asses about this kind of thing. I have no reason to doubt any of these admissions or recruiters are lying unless someone can provide evidence to the contrary. OP wants to be in South Florida, OP is saving money at least the first year by going to Miami and will place at least as well in South Florida going to Miami if not somewhat better. The only part of my arguement that is purely based on my own opinion is that I think Miami would be a better place to spend 3 years than the swamp. If you don't agree, like I have said before, that is fine as it is simply a personal preference.


The OP is getting in-state tuition at UF. If he or she happened to be out-of-state, he or she would likely be paying out-of-state tuition for only one year. While "virtually all" out-of-staters get in-state tuition at UF after a year and the requirements can be met fairly easily once they are known, UM's 3.2 GPA scholarship contingency requires the maintenance of a GPA well above the student body's median, as msv5010 pointed out. Even with out-of-state tuition, UF is $8,000 cheaper per year than UM (including your $4,000 cost of living difference). Pretending that the out-of-stater could never achieve in-state tuition and assuming full UM tuition minus one year of $23,000 off, UF would still be cheaper. So much for backing your arguments up with facts.

Darknightbegins - I'm sorry, but your entire position is nothing but personal opinion and guesswork. All you have are numbers and testimony that tell you that UM is at best even with and at worst behind UF in South Florida, and undoubtedly lagging in the rest of the state. Besides that, you are clinging to an unfounded hunch that because UM is in Miami and has more graduates there, it must do better than UF there. Also, your vision is clouded by the overriding bias you have in favor of the environment of Miami and against that of Gainesville. I ask that you realize these realities and refrain from continuing to make inappropriate impressions on the poor impressionable souls daft enough to be swayed by whatever might be written here.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby darknightbegins » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:43 am

First of all when did I ever dispute Florida was better throughout the state as a hole than UM? If you can get that quote I would like to see it. So lets put this item to rest as I have never disputed it and agree that Florida is better throughout the state than UM. I think you have beat this into the ground enough and I never disagreed with you about this to begin with. Why continue to bring it up? The issue has been south florida, not the entire state. I don't see the point in you bringing this up over and over and over and over and over and over again and again and again when I have already agreed with you about Florida being better throughout the state and the issue is strictly south florida.

Like I mentioned before the numbers overall of the two schools are pretty close so at least they are equal in Miami. 3 years of out of state tuition at Florida is around 30,000 grand and three years of Miami I believe is only a few grand more. Since you are so fucking married to the idea that gaining residency at Florida is easy despite what a poster has said after talking to an admission officer I will give you yet another source that indicates that getting residency for Florida isn't easy.

Establishing Residency

This is not as easy as it sounds. If your parent or legal guardian is a resident and you are a dependent, and they have maintained residency for a year, you may qualify for residency. Otherwise, we have this information from Dean Jerry himself:

There are some additional requirements for a student to be classified as an in-state resident for tuition purposes. The key point is that simply living in or attending school in Florida does not, in and of itself, establish legal residence for tuition purposes.

Instead, residence in Florida must be a bona fide domicile, which is more than merely maintaining residence while attending the university. This determination is based on a variety of factors which are evaluated by the University of Florida Office of the Registrar after a student submits information to that office.

Factors that weigh in your favor are the following: having a driver’s license and a Florida license plate and registration for twelve months, owning property in Florida for a year, demonstrated commitment to community service, filing and paying taxes in Florida, and a clear desire to staying in Florida after completing the law degree. Gaining residency has been reported as difficult, though since four out of every five students are already Florida residents, there is little anecdotal evidence to go on.


Curious of where this came from? Its this site in fact:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/uf-college-of-law.html

This, along with the admission officer a previous poster has talked to, indicates that getting residency for those last two years is not as easy as you seem to believe. Now you don't care to do the leg work to try and find some sources that indicate it is easy to get residency at Florida. That is fine but until you can do find some evidence to support your claim about the ease of getting in state tuition, other than your own guesswork, I would take your opinion of how easy it is to get in state tuition for what it is, an opinion.

With tuition prices for an out of state almost the same and the fact the OP is looking at 23k scholarship for AT LEAST one year, I would take Miami. Now if can get in state tuition, like I have already said in a previous post, I would take Florida as in this scenario it would be cheaper in state and you would not have to meet the requirements of a scholarship and the OP would still have a good shot at getting a good job in South Florida.

Yearly tuition for Non resident at Florida is 33,592
http://www.top-law-schools.com/uf-college-of-law.html

Yearly tuition for Miami 38,012.
http://www.top-law-schools.com/universi ... i-law.html

Lets do some math shall we?

Florida- 33,592 x 3 = 100,776

Miami- 38,012 - 23,000 = 15,012 first year tuition. Assuming OP has to pay full tuition full price the next two years, worst case scenario, that brings the total to 91,036. Thats almost an 11,000 difference in price. If OP is able to keep 23K for all three years, best case scenario then the total is 45,036.

LSN said the cost of living per year is about 4,000 more in Miami than in the swamp. so 4,000 x 3 =12,000. So if we add this all up, worst case scenario, Miami is 2,260 more expensive than UF. If the OP is this straped for 2,260 then I think the OP could adjust their living over the course of three years to make it almost even and still enjoy Miami.

UM has more grads in Miami and had more firms interviewing on campus from Miami than Florida, no matter how small the margin. So to repeate myself AGAIN if I had in state tuition to Florida in this scenario I would go there and save money. If I am out of state, and getting in state tuition is difficult, and I have the 23K scholarship at Miami for AT LEAST the first year and I want to work in South Florida after graduation I am going to UM and enjoying South Beach over the sink hole.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Lomax » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:59 am

Darknightbegins, you just spent a lot of time saying practically nothing.

Why do I keep pounding in the fact that UF > UM statewide/overall? Because in the not-so-unlikely event that the law grad, for whatever reason, can't secure a job in South Florida or decides that Miami isn't so great after all, that is going to make all the difference. I'm sorry if you have been missing that. I and several others have tried to make it clear enough.

As for your residency blurb - it doesn't say anything new. There are certain requirements that must be met by non-residents to qualify for in-state tuition after the first year. Yes, we already knew that. None of those specified are overly intimidating. The supposedly-absent anecdotal evidence can be found on the UF website - I repeat, the vast majority of out-of-staters secure in-state status after the first year. How they go about doing that can almost certainly be ascertained, if necessary, by asking the right people.

As for your math - it says exactly what I said before. UF is cheaper than UM. Whether or not the savings compensate for the lack of South Beach is a matter of opinion.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby 98234872348 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:40 am

darknightbegins wrote:LSN said the cost of living per year is about 4,000 more in Miami than in the swamp. so 4,000 x 3 =12,000. So if we add this all up, worst case scenario, Miami is 2,260 more expensive than UF. If the OP is this straped for 2,260 then I think the OP could adjust their living over the course of three years to make it almost even and still enjoy Miami.

UM has more grads in Miami and had more firms interviewing on campus from Miami than Florida, no matter how small the margin. So to repeate myself AGAIN if I had in state tuition to Florida in this scenario I would go there and save money. If I am out of state, and getting in state tuition is difficult, and I have the 23K scholarship at Miami for AT LEAST the first year and I want to work in South Florida after graduation I am going to UM and enjoying South Beach over the sink hole.

Two things:
1. OP is a Fl resident. You are referring to another poster ITT.

2. Don't go to either of these schools based on the number of firms interviewing in OCI. I know 2Ls at UF who are top 5% Law Review that didn't get offers at OCI. This is not a good metric to judge the quality of the schools by as most people outside of the top 20 % (read: 80% of students attending) do not get jobs from OCI. This is the scenario at UF that I imagine it is substantially similar at UMiami.

hth.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby keg411 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:48 am

A few things

UF is massively overrated. UF thinks higher of itself as an institution (in both undergrad and law) than it actually is. It's been falling in the rankings and cutting the class size is only a band aid. I was originally planning on applying there and making it my #1 when the cycle started and I didn't even apply after what I heard (ie. that is is EXTREMELY cutthroat and there is not a friendly vibe among the students). The placement is only marginal over UM/FSU and overall it's a school on the decline. UF may have at one time been the best school in FL by a large margin, but the margin is shrinking and FSU/UM are catching up (remember, FSU was only ONE spot behind in the USNWR rankings last year).

That said, if OP is in-state, she should go to UF because it's going to be cheaper (as for COL, I went to Miami for undergrad and lived off campus in 2 different places; both cost me $700/month, but I had roommates; I am sure you could find places for half that in Gainesville). The only way OP should go to Miami is if she can get the scholarship stipulations to be changed to "good standing" rather than 3.2. Scholarship stipulations are extremely dangerous and it's not something I would risk because you could end up paying sticker and being at median with less opportunities for employment. So OP should go to Florida and then get summer jobs both 1L and 2L in Miami (plus, might as well get used to those awful, awful summers).

I make one caveat. I think OP should see if she can talk to 2L and 3L's from both schools to see if Miami's location is a networking advantage. There may be more internship opportunities during the school year (at least for 2L and 3L), which may be more likely to lead to permanent positions. If OP finds this to be the case, than she should go to UM. It's been a theory of mine that during ITE, urban schools >> college town schools, but it's only a theory and I have zero evidence to back it up.

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98234872348
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby 98234872348 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:00 am

keg411 wrote:I was originally planning on applying there and making it my #1 when the cycle started and I didn't even apply after what I heard (ie. that is is EXTREMELY cutthroat and there is not a friendly vibe among the students).

This statement is patently untrue.

hth.

lawduder
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby lawduder » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:12 am

keg411 wrote:A few things

UF is massively overrated. UF thinks higher of itself as an institution (in both undergrad and law) than it actually is. It's been falling in the rankings and cutting the class size is only a band aid. I was originally planning on applying there and making it my #1 when the cycle started and I didn't even apply after what I heard (ie. that is is EXTREMELY cutthroat and there is not a friendly vibe among the students). The placement is only marginal over UM/FSU and overall it's a school on the decline. UF may have at one time been the best school in FL by a large margin, but the margin is shrinking and FSU/UM are catching up (remember, FSU was only ONE spot behind in the USNWR rankings last year).

That said, if OP is in-state, she should go to UF because it's going to be cheaper (as for COL, I went to Miami for undergrad and lived off campus in 2 different places; both cost me $700/month, but I had roommates; I am sure you could find places for half that in Gainesville). The only way OP should go to Miami is if she can get the scholarship stipulations to be changed to "good standing" rather than 3.2. Scholarship stipulations are extremely dangerous and it's not something I would risk because you could end up paying sticker and being at median with less opportunities for employment. So OP should go to Florida and then get summer jobs both 1L and 2L in Miami (plus, might as well get used to those awful, awful summers).

I make one caveat. I think OP should see if she can talk to 2L and 3L's from both schools to see if Miami's location is a networking advantage. There may be more internship opportunities during the school year (at least for 2L and 3L), which may be more likely to lead to permanent positions. If OP finds this to be the case, than she should go to UM. It's been a theory of mine that during ITE, urban schools >> college town schools, but it's only a theory and I have zero evidence to back it up.

USNWR rankings don't matter when schools are ranked this low. Instead, it's about alumi networking and regional reputation of the school. That being said, UF still holds the advantage over the other two schools and it's cheaper. As far as "cut throat," I'd imagine Miami would be more competitive seeing as they've already got a rougher time getting jobs in the first place compared to UF.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Cestjustemoi » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:26 am

If money is no issue go where you think you will be happiest. Your personal achievements will advance you much further in life than a school name. Oh and 26 is still very young there will hardly be a 2 to 3 year gap between you and the youngest student. However I have heard that once you pass like 23 Gainesville is horribly boring.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby keg411 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:35 am

lawduder wrote:USNWR rankings don't matter when schools are ranked this low. Instead, it's about alumi networking and regional reputation of the school. That being said, UF still holds the advantage over the other two schools and it's cheaper. As far as "cut throat," I'd imagine Miami would be more competitive seeing as they've already got a rougher time getting jobs in the first place compared to UF.


I know students at both law schools and people in Florida in the legal profession (I went to undergrad there and still am friendly with many people). All of them say UF is dropping quickly in all aspects and the alumni network reputation is vastly overrated. By "cutthroat" I'm talking about the attitude of the students at the school -- it is said to not be a "friendly" environment (no one at UM or who went to UM has said anything like that to me and everything I have heard about FSU about the student body has been positive; if a bit too laid back). UF's rank is simply a reflection of a school on the decline.

However, I still think based on the cost, OP should go to UF.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby lawduder » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:52 am

Right so if UF increases its ranking this year, then it's no longer on the decline? zz@ those rankings..

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Moose Thompson » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:00 pm

I won't weigh in on the UM vs. UF debate, I think it has been sufficiently covered. I will say that age shouldn't be part of anyone's consideration in choosing a school. I'm 30, I will be 31 when I start law school. I moved to Gainesville and started undergrad at 26. I've been hanging out with undergraduates the entire time I've been here. It's really not a big deal.

If anything, it's been mutually beneficial. Being older, I tend to be a bit more focued and driven on the task at hand rather than wrapped up in the daily drama of becoming an adult. I'm a good influence on my friends in helping them to compartmentalize and treat school like a job. Conversely, the younger crowd keeps me feeling younger and hip to what the kids are up to these days. So long as they stay off my damn lawn we are good. :wink: It is to my advantage that I have a "baby face," but people generally guess my age around 24. The social age gap isn't as large as some would have you believe, I've had plenty of fun in my four years here.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby keg411 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:40 pm

lawduder wrote:Right so if UF increases its ranking this year, then it's no longer on the decline? zz@ those rankings..


I'm saying the rankings support what I have heard from people who work in the Florida legal community or are currently in law school in Florida. I'm far from a USNWR whore. Do you know anyone who goes to law school in Florida or works as a lawyer in Florida?

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Pleadthe5th
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Pleadthe5th » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:52 pm

Seeing as how the GPA stipulation at Miami is a large part of the argument to go to UF, has anyone had any luck (or heard of anyone successfully) renegotiating the GPA requirement specifically at Miami?

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Joga Bonito
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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby Joga Bonito » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:02 pm

UF is obviously the better school and probably places better in Miami, but man, Miami is wayyy more fun than freakin gainsville, but Miami may not be a good environment for a law student who wants to do well.

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Re: UF v. Miami... and is 26 old?

Postby lawduder » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:06 pm

keg411 wrote:
lawduder wrote:Right so if UF increases its ranking this year, then it's no longer on the decline? zz@ those rankings..


I'm saying the rankings support what I have heard from people who work in the Florida legal community or are currently in law school in Florida. I'm far from a USNWR whore. Do you know anyone who goes to law school in Florida or works as a lawyer in Florida?

yes




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