Almost decision time, what would you do?

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ndirish2010
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Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:34 am

My cycle isn't quite over, but I'm finding myself weighing difficult decisions already so I figured I'd do one of these now. I'm looking to at least give myself a decent chance at biglaw in either NYC, DC, or Chicago, but I'm also decently debt averse so I really need to balance job prospects with cost.

Here are my choices so far

Washington and Lee (34K scholarship per year, tuition only ~4K)
Illinois (30K scholarship per year, tuition only ~ 10K)
George Washington (no money yet, ~ 45K tuition)
Fordham (no money yet, ~ 40K tuition, but a chance at scholarship eventually maybe)
Minnesota (18K scholarship per year, ~20K tuition per year)
William and Mary (graduate fellowship totaling $17200 per year, tuition only ~ 15K)

Realistic options that I'm still waiting for are Notre Dame, IU-B, and Cornell...some other T14s but they are not very realistic.

What do you think?

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MURPH
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby MURPH » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:06 am

I am in some similar schools If i had to decide today it would be between UCLA, Minnesota and Illinois. Minnesota might win out based on the fact that it is a nice city.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby gwuorbust » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:02 am

ndirish2010 wrote:My cycle isn't quite over, but I'm finding myself weighing difficult decisions already so I figured I'd do one of these now. I'm looking to at least give myself a decent chance at biglaw in either NYC, DC, or Chicago, but I'm also decently debt averse so I really need to balance job prospects with cost.

Here are my choices so far

Washington and Lee (34K scholarship per year, tuition only ~4K)
Illinois (30K scholarship per year, tuition only ~ 10K)
George Washington (no money yet, ~ 45K tuition)
Fordham (no money yet, ~ 40K tuition, but a chance at scholarship eventually maybe)
Minnesota (18K scholarship per year, ~20K tuition per year)
William and Mary (graduate fellowship totaling $17200 per year, tuition only ~ 15K)

Realistic options that I'm still waiting for are Notre Dame, IU-B, and Cornell...some other T14s but they are not very realistic.

What do you think?


Cornell if you get in. While Ithica may not be the most exciting city, Cornell is a t14. IMO, worth the $.

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Borhas
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:16 pm

If you don't get into Cornell go to W&M, unless you got a $$ at Fordham

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ndirish2010
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:50 pm

Do you really think the job prospects at Cornell are that much better than the T30s to justify that much more money? I have no problems with Ithaca, I actually like it quite a bit, so that would be an encouraging factor, but the debt is something I worry about quite a bit. Of course, I haven't got in and my stats give me about a 50/50 shot I would think, or slightly less (3.66/168).

Also, difference between W&M and W&L? Is it that much where I should pick W&M for that much more money? I was thinking I might try to negotiate a bit more from W&M but I don't know how receptive they are to that.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:50 pm

Edit for another inclusion, I forgot to include WUSTL as another school I would consider if I got in. I probably should have waited for this thread, but my choices are getting numerous so I wanted to start now.

keg411
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby keg411 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:24 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Do you really think the job prospects at Cornell are that much better than the T30s to justify that much more money?


Yes, based on your criteria. Cornell will give you the best shot at BigLaw (most likely in NYC, but there is a shot at Chicago/DC as well).

If you are more "debt averse" then "I want big law", then go to the cheapest school. If you are set on a particular region, go to school there.

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Borhas
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:25 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Do you really think the job prospects at Cornell are that much better than the T30s to justify that much more money? I have no problems with Ithaca, I actually like it quite a bit, so that would be an encouraging factor, but the debt is something I worry about quite a bit. Of course, I haven't got in and my stats give me about a 50/50 shot I would think, or slightly less (3.66/168).

Also, difference between W&M and W&L? Is it that much where I should pick W&M for that much more money? I was thinking I might try to negotiate a bit more from W&M but I don't know how receptive they are to that.


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf

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Ragged
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Ragged » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:28 pm

Almost decision time? The ball is still in adcomm's court in 9/10 schools for me. I'm starting to get worried.... *paranoid smiley*

Hope you chose a good school for yourself.

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DoctorNick189
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby DoctorNick189 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:30 pm

Borhas wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Do you really think the job prospects at Cornell are that much better than the T30s to justify that much more money? I have no problems with Ithaca, I actually like it quite a bit, so that would be an encouraging factor, but the debt is something I worry about quite a bit. Of course, I haven't got in and my stats give me about a 50/50 shot I would think, or slightly less (3.66/168).

Also, difference between W&M and W&L? Is it that much where I should pick W&M for that much more money? I was thinking I might try to negotiate a bit more from W&M but I don't know how receptive they are to that.


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf


^^ that ish is from 2005

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Borhas
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:32 pm

DoctorNick189 wrote:
Borhas wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Do you really think the job prospects at Cornell are that much better than the T30s to justify that much more money? I have no problems with Ithaca, I actually like it quite a bit, so that would be an encouraging factor, but the debt is something I worry about quite a bit. Of course, I haven't got in and my stats give me about a 50/50 shot I would think, or slightly less (3.66/168).

Also, difference between W&M and W&L? Is it that much where I should pick W&M for that much more money? I was thinking I might try to negotiate a bit more from W&M but I don't know how receptive they are to that.


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414empl ... trends.pdf


^^ that ish is from 2005


better than nothing

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Veyron
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:34 pm

Illinois

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Borhas
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:34 pm

2008:

Image

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vanwinkle
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:36 pm

I vote for Illinois. Also, Fordham is poor compared to other law schools, which makes them stingy. They won't give you money, just the honor of attending Fordham.

Having said that...

Image

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UFMatt
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby UFMatt » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:22 pm

MURPH wrote:I am in some similar schools If i had to decide today it would be between UCLA, Minnesota and Illinois. Minnesota might win out based on the fact that it is a nice city.


I used to think like that until I took a look at the crime statistics for Minneapolis. Crime is through the roof. The murder rate is very high, and the rape rate is one of the highest in the nation (10x higher than college towns with already higher than average rates of rape). Too bad, since they gave me a great offer.

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Borhas
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:27 pm

UFMatt wrote:
MURPH wrote:I am in some similar schools If i had to decide today it would be between UCLA, Minnesota and Illinois. Minnesota might win out based on the fact that it is a nice city.


I used to think like that until I took a look at the crime statistics for Minneapolis. Crime is through the roof. The murder rate is very high, and the rape rate is one of the highest in the nation (10x higher than college towns with already higher than average rates of rape). Too bad, since they gave me a great offer.

think of crime as an opportunity to represent your fellow denizens in court

everybody wins!

sort of

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ndirish2010
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:47 pm

Thanks for the replies! Some of those numbers have convinced me that Cornell is probably worth the money if I were to get in. I was aware of the scarcity of money at Fordham, though I was happy to get in I just can't justify paying sticker there (same with GWU). The differences between W&M and W&L seem small enough where I'd pick W&L over W&M, so if I don't get in anywhere else it would probably be between Illinois and W&L. But that's just my current reasoning, it seems to change quite a bit, so keep the opinions coming. Assume that I get equal utility out of NYC, DC and Chicago, although I have a slight preference towards schools with some extra portability (though I realize there won't be much of that in the 15-30 range.)

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:22 pm

Assuming no money from Fordham and no other acceptances, I would take Illinois out of these options.

If you get into Cornell, go there. If you get into ND with similar money to Illinois, go there. If you get a full ride at IUB, go there.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:31 pm

Halibut6 wrote:Assuming no money from Fordham and no other acceptances, I would take Illinois out of these options.

If you get into Cornell, go there. If you get into ND with similar money to Illinois, go there. If you get a full ride at IUB, go there.


Thanks! There seems to be a lot of hate against IU on these forums...is it realistic to get to Chicago biglaw from IU? Or should I be prepared to be in Indy if I'm not in the top 10-15%?

Also, what about WUSTL (especially if I get decent money)?

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:42 pm

I'm not huge into biglaw, but I want to end up in Chicago after LS and I am (99% sure) going to Indiana on a full ride. I chose it over an Illinois half-scholarship and an Iowa full scholarship, as well as the three T2 Chicago schools.

To me, I'd rather graduate from LS relatively debt-free and go somewhere I want to be for three years (as opposed to debt from U of I and please-kill-me QOL at Iowa).

If I were you, I would probably still choose IU full over U of I $30k, but it would be a pretty tough decision. According to IU's admission office, Chicago is the top market for IU grads, so you definitely have an alumni base up there to work with, but I doubt it gives you as many opportunities as Illinois does. It might be close, though.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby ndirish2010 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:57 pm

Halibut6 wrote:I'm not huge into biglaw, but I want to end up in Chicago after LS and I am (99% sure) going to Indiana on a full ride. I chose it over an Illinois half-scholarship and an Iowa full scholarship, as well as the three T2 Chicago schools.

To me, I'd rather graduate from LS relatively debt-free and go somewhere I want to be for three years (as opposed to debt from U of I and please-kill-me QOL at Iowa).

If I were you, I would probably still choose IU full over U of I $30k, but it would be a pretty tough decision. According to IU's admission office, Chicago is the top market for IU grads, so you definitely have an alumni base up there to work with, but I doubt it gives you as many opportunities as Illinois does. It might be close, though.


Interesting thoughts, thanks! I hadn't really been considering IU that strongly, but I guess if it turned out to be full it would definitely have to be on my radar.

For some reason, I really like W&L, but it seems like the general consensus is there is too much competition in the DC market for W&L to make much of a dent. Its a good thing I still have almost two months to decide, but that's why I'm starting this whole thing early.

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sanpiero
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby sanpiero » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:08 pm

Halibut6 wrote:I'm not huge into biglaw, but I want to end up in Chicago after LS and I am (99% sure) going to Indiana on a full ride. I chose it over an Illinois half-scholarship and an Iowa full scholarship, as well as the three T2 Chicago schools.

To me, I'd rather graduate from LS relatively debt-free and go somewhere I want to be for three years (as opposed to debt from U of I and please-kill-me QOL at Iowa and U of I).

If I were you, I would probably still choose IU full over U of I $30k, but it would be a pretty tough decision. According to IU's admission office, Chicago is the top market for IU grads, so you definitely have an alumni base up there to work with, but I doubt it gives you as many opportunities as Illinois does. It might be close, though.

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sanpiero
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby sanpiero » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:11 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
Halibut6 wrote:Assuming no money from Fordham and no other acceptances, I would take Illinois out of these options.

If you get into Cornell, go there. If you get into ND with similar money to Illinois, go there. If you get a full ride at IUB, go there.


Thanks! There seems to be a lot of hate against IU on these forums...is it realistic to get to Chicago biglaw from IU? Or should I be prepared to be in Indy if I'm not in the top 10-15%?

Also, what about WUSTL (especially if I get decent money)?


FWIW there are a ton of IU grads in Chicago; the school is really well respected there. 10-15% seems accurate for CHI biglaw but there are plenty of non-biglaw firms in CHI you'd have a shot at.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:17 pm

ndirish2010 wrote: Or should I be prepared to be in Indy if I'm not in the top 10-15%?


I just toured IU on Tuesday, so forgive me for drilling you with admissions propaganda. The lady in admissions told me that Indianapolis is actually their third biggest market, after Chicago and DC, respectively. She said that an Indiana degree is well-respected in Indy, but there are more alumni in Chicago and DC than there are in Indy.

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Re: Almost decision time, what would you do?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:40 pm

vanwinkle wrote:I vote for Illinois. Also, Fordham is poor compared to other law schools, which makes them stingy. They won't give you money, just the honor of attending Fordham.

Having said that...

Image


That picture needs to stop circulating! I will kill TripTravHoot for making it.

OP, I would give some thought to where you would most like to live in case you don't make biglaw. Cornell is TCR for "best chances at biglaw." After that, I would refer to the NLJ250 chart that was helpfully posted for you. No T30 will give you a guarantee, so it makes sense to weigh your contingency plans and make a decision about where you want to practice. Once you've compared placement, visiting schools is the next most helpful thing you can do. Sometimes visiting really does clinch things; it did for me. I wouldn't make money your primary deciding factor, since personal happiness can throw off any financial equation. Some may disagree with me, but especially if you want biglaw, spending more may give you a better shot.




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