BYU$$ v Cornell v UCLA$ v GULC

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Torvon
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm

BYU$$ v Cornell v UCLA$ v GULC

Postby Torvon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:46 am

UPDATED

BYU: Full tuition scholarship

Cornell: sticker

UCLA: 18k / year

GULC: sticker

I want to clerk out of law school and then go into government, probably starting as a prosecutor and hopefully working up from there. Eventually maybe elected official. I'm not picky about location, just wherever the opportunity is ripe. Right now I'm kind of leaning toward GULC, because it is more prestigious than the others which could help later on and they have a sweet LRAP which would pretty much pay off my loans for me. Any input is appreciated.
Last edited by Torvon on Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:31 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Joga Bonito
Posts: 302
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:46 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Joga Bonito » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:48 am

Torvon wrote:Cycle isn't over yet and I'm hoping to get into a couple other schools but so far it looks like this:

BYU: Full tuition scholarship

ND: Haven't technically got in but if I do I'm hoping for a modest amount of money.

UCLA: sticker

GULC: sticker

I want to clerk out of law school and then go into government, probably starting as a prosecutor and hopefully working up from there. Eventually maybe elected official. I'm not picky about location, just wherever the opportunity is ripe. Right now I'm kind of leaning toward GULC, because it is more prestigious than the others which could help later on and they have a sweet LRAP which would pretty much pay off my loans for me. Any input is appreciated.


GULC unless you want a government career in cali.

redginseng
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:24 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby redginseng » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:18 am

Well, state or district level prosecution doesn't require graduating from top school, neither running for office. Just look at Cuomo. In fact, I find that state or district level prosecutions are mostly filled with respected regional schools in the area.

But if you want federal level prosecution, also depending which office you want, you would be better served to go higher ranked school.

User avatar
Dignan
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Dignan » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:23 am

redginseng wrote:Well, state or district level prosecution doesn't require graduating from top school, neither running for office. Just look at Cuomo. In fact, I find that state or district level prosecutions are mostly filled with respected regional schools in the area.

+1. It seems like every elected official in Maryland, including the governor, went to the University of Baltimore, which is a T4.

Having said that, I vote GULC because I think it'll be the most engaging place to be given the OP's interests.

User avatar
James Bond
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby James Bond » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:24 am

I'd go GULC, but TLS seems to hate it so don't expect much of that. I love DC though, and if you want to get into government, where better to be than the DC?

User avatar
jonas586
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:21 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby jonas586 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:21 am

I say go to BYU if you can handle the social and religious atmosphere there. Tuition is covered and cost of living will most likely be substantially lower than UCLA or GULC. I also hear that BYU places surprisingly well in clerkships ranging all the way up to the Supreme Court, so you won't automatically be precluding yourself from your potential career goals by going there. Of course, I don't have any stats or evidence to back this up, nor do I know how BYU matches up to the other schools on your list in terms of clerkship placement, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

insidethetwenty
Posts: 221
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:00 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby insidethetwenty » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:27 am

jonas586 wrote:I say go to BYU if you can handle the social and religious atmosphere there. Tuition is covered and cost of living will most likely be substantially lower than UCLA or GULC. I also hear that BYU places surprisingly well in clerkships ranging all the way up to the Supreme Court, so you won't automatically be precluding yourself from your potential career goals by going there. Of course, I don't have any stats or evidence to back this up, nor do I know how BYU matches up to the other schools on your list in terms of clerkship placement, so take my advice with a grain of salt.


If OP finishes at the top of his class or close to it at BYU then he'll probably have a pretty good chance at landing a clerkship, but the possibilities of finishing top of your class anywhere are small even for the sharpest of the 0L tacks.

I'm generally a take-the-money-and-run person, too, but with OP's specific career goals and lofty aspirations, I'd say he or she should go to GULC.

Of course, OP, if you are happy with just being a state-level prosecutor in Utah, Idaho, etc. or clerking on one of those state courts, you might not be unwise to take the money...

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2395
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby nealric » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:01 pm

BYU if LDS. BYU has very good clerkship placement, but a lot of that is due to the religious conservative ties- they are kind of a go-to school for judges who want conservative clerks.

Otherwise GULC all the way. I am a GULC 3L if you have any questions.

User avatar
thelawguy777
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:46 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby thelawguy777 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:33 pm

Yes BYU also has no clinical program.

BYU is massively overrated amongst Mormons (I have way too many stories from friends about people shutting down top schools for it and then... Surprise! It's not Harvard). So much so that people actually consider it over a T-14 school. Look at the numbers, consider outside factors, etc...

You are right on leaning toward Georgetown (especially if you want to go into government, it happens to be in our nation's capitol).

UCLA is not a bad choice, but I agree with previous comments regarding your desire to practice in California.

nycparalegal
Posts: 483
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:26 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby nycparalegal » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:43 pm

Take this for what it's worth: Jay Bybee regrets going to BYU

Another regret concerned Bybee’s decision to attend law school at Brigham Young University, instead of Duke University

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... ure_memos/

Torvon
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Torvon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:54 pm

nealric wrote:BYU if LDS. BYU has very good clerkship placement, but a lot of that is due to the religious conservative ties- they are kind of a go-to school for judges who want conservative clerks.

Otherwise GULC all the way. I am a GULC 3L if you have any questions.


Well, my main question is how do you afford it :lol: ? The only down side to GULC I'm seeing at this point is the insane cost of living. Are you paying sticker? Also, where would be a good place to start looking for housing if I'm married?

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2395
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby nealric » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:35 pm

Well, my main question is how do you afford it ? The only down side to GULC I'm seeing at this point is the insane cost of living. Are you paying sticker? Also, where would be a good place to start looking for housing if I'm married?


Paying sticker: Started PT and working + Loans + Summer Associate money. I will be working at a large firm, so I'm not worried about paying it off.

Housing: I would recommend an English basement in the Capitol Hill neighborhood ($1,000-$1500). If you are OK with housemates, you can find good deals on master bedrooms in rowhouses. I know single people who are living as cheap as $400/mo (but in a rather unsafe neighborhood).

User avatar
Dignan
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Dignan » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:14 pm

Torvon wrote:
nealric wrote:BYU if LDS. BYU has very good clerkship placement, but a lot of that is due to the religious conservative ties- they are kind of a go-to school for judges who want conservative clerks.

Otherwise GULC all the way. I am a GULC 3L if you have any questions.


Well, my main question is how do you afford it :lol: ? The only down side to GULC I'm seeing at this point is the insane cost of living.

The cost of living is not insane. I find that this is a big misconception about DC. Yes, if you want to live within walking distance of GULC, then rent will be high (though still cheaper than NYC or SF). But if you're willing to live a 10-minute metro ride away, there are many affordable options.

Although you should be concerned about the cost of tuition, don't get too hung up on the various COL estimates. The differences are usually not as great as they first seem.

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2395
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby nealric » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:26 pm

Yes, if you want to live within walking distance of GULC, then rent will be high (though still cheaper than NYC or SF). But if you're willing to live a 10-minute metro ride away, there are many affordable options.


Even a 15 minute walk affords plenty of reasonably affordable options. I would say DC cost of living is on par with other major cities (like Boston, LA, Chicago). It's nowhere close to the insanity that is NYC.

Torvon
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Torvon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:30 pm

nealric wrote:
Well, my main question is how do you afford it ? The only down side to GULC I'm seeing at this point is the insane cost of living. Are you paying sticker? Also, where would be a good place to start looking for housing if I'm married?


Paying sticker: Started PT and working + Loans + Summer Associate money. I will be working at a large firm, so I'm not worried about paying it off.

Housing: I would recommend an English basement in the Capitol Hill neighborhood ($1,000-$1500). If you are OK with housemates, you can find good deals on master bedrooms in rowhouses. I know single people who are living as cheap as $400/mo (but in a rather unsafe neighborhood).


Thanks for the information! Can you fill me in on any details you know about the LRAP? I've read all I could about it and from what I'm understanding as long as I work for the government making less than $75,000 then I only have to pay so much because of federal regulations and what I do have to pay is actually paid by GULC for ten years until the loans are forgiven....am I missing something?

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2395
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby nealric » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:34 pm

Thanks for the information! Can you fill me in on any details you know about the LRAP? I've read all I could about it and from what I'm understanding as long as I work for the government making less than $75,000 then I only have to pay so much because of federal regulations and what I do have to pay is actually paid by GULC for ten years until the loans are forgiven....am I missing something?


Unfortunately, I'm on not the one to talk to about that. My understanding is they made some changes to it recently- but I haven't followed it closely since I won't be using it. But as far as I understand, the jist of it is that you work in public interest for 10 years and your loans are forgiven.

Torvon
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Torvon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:38 pm

nealric wrote:
Thanks for the information! Can you fill me in on any details you know about the LRAP? I've read all I could about it and from what I'm understanding as long as I work for the government making less than $75,000 then I only have to pay so much because of federal regulations and what I do have to pay is actually paid by GULC for ten years until the loans are forgiven....am I missing something?


Unfortunately, I'm on not the one to talk to about that. My understanding is they made some changes to it recently- but I haven't followed it closely since I won't be using it. But as far as I understand, the jist of it is that you work in public interest for 10 years and your loans are forgiven.


I'm just going to keep asking questions...so if you get annoyed feel free to stop answering :D .

Some people have discouraged me from going to GULC due to it's large size claiming that I won't have an opportunity to get to know professors and such. Has that been a problem?

User avatar
nealric
Posts: 2395
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:53 am

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby nealric » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:49 pm


Some people have discouraged me from going to GULC due to it's large size claiming that I won't have an opportunity to get to know professors and such. Has that been a problem?


It is still tiny compared to your average undergrad campus. I find you get to know the professors as much as you want to get to know them.

Torvon
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Torvon » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:19 pm

nealric wrote:

Some people have discouraged me from going to GULC due to it's large size claiming that I won't have an opportunity to get to know professors and such. Has that been a problem?


It is still tiny compared to your average undergrad campus. I find you get to know the professors as much as you want to get to know them.


I know you said you have a job lined up (congrats on that) but how are your classmates doing with employment?

Torvon
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: BYU$$ v ND$ v UCLA v GULC

Postby Torvon » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:31 am

I was accepted to Cornell and ND is out of the picture. Is there any advantage to Cornell over GULC for government work? I know GULC's LRAP is much better, but I'm just wondering if Cornell can get me a more prestigious position straight out of law school.

User avatar
Cupidity
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: BYU$$ v Cornell v UCLA$ v GULC

Postby Cupidity » Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:44 am

GULC for gov't work. Better clerkship stats, better LRAP, DC location.

overall, UCLA $ beats out Cornell GULC...fuck BYU-why even consider it? I'd rather slit my wrists. The UC schools are notorious for granting in-state to second-years...which should make that $ into $$ compared to GULC/Cornell

irishman86
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:03 am

Re: BYU$$ v Cornell v UCLA$ v GULC

Postby irishman86 » Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:20 am

Cupidity wrote:GULC for gov't work. Better clerkship stats, better LRAP, DC location.

overall, UCLA $ beats out Cornell GULC...fuck BYU-why even consider it? I'd rather slit my wrists. The UC schools are notorious for granting in-state to second-years...which should make that $ into $$ compared to GULC/Cornell


...except the UCs are increasing in-state tuition to ~50k+, which means that it would cost the same or more given high COL even with residency...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=71528&p=1593493#p1593493

I would choose GULC over UCLA $ and Cornell sticker for gov't work.

Torvon
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:09 pm

Re: BYU$$ v Cornell v UCLA$ v GULC

Postby Torvon » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:19 am

Cupidity wrote:GULC for gov't work. Better clerkship stats, better LRAP, DC location.

overall, UCLA $ beats out Cornell GULC...fuck BYU-why even consider it? I'd rather slit my wrists. The UC schools are notorious for granting in-state to second-years...which should make that $ into $$ compared to GULC/Cornell


:lol: I haven't heard it phrased quite like that....

mellymel
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:15 pm

Re: BYU$$ v Cornell v UCLA$ v GULC

Postby mellymel » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:28 am

If you are looking to do a clerkship, becoming a prosecutor, or focusing on criminal law, BYU is probably not the place to go. I have several friends and family who have gone to BYU (and are Mormon so the prevailing environment would not have bothered them as much as it can a non-Mormon) and have said that had they known that BYU is weak in those areas (great on International and Business law due to all the connections made through the Mormon church) they would not have gone there.

User avatar
RudeDudewithAttitude
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 10:50 pm

Re: BYU$$ v Cornell v UCLA$ v GULC

Postby RudeDudewithAttitude » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:42 am

With OP's specific career aspirations he/she needs to be at the top of the class at BYU. You don't want to go to BYU (or any school) with this expectation/necessity.

I am a BYU 1L and I know a handful of kids who turned down top 6 schools and a bunch who turned down the top 14. The top of the class is stacked.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests