University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

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Great Satchmo
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University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:14 pm

In at USF w/ $26k one time vs. $4k renewable at SCU. Ya, neither is too substantial.

Locations:

I lived near SCU for 6 months, the suburbs are nice and the area is pretty enough. The campus is gorgeous and I feel like it's a place I could easily focus on school and extracurriculars. I now realize how much I liked the community and insulated feel of my undergrad.

I now live in San Francisco and love it. I can see myself staying in the city for a while. I did the commute thing for a while (from the city to near SCU actually) and would rather cut off my large toe with a spork. I do love the city, but there is the question as to what the student body cohesion is like, as far as feeling a community, as well as having so much around that it's harder to focus.

Future:

I am looking to do something related to corporate/business law, although not sure yet. I know the biglaw crap won't happen, nor do I expect it to. I am not solely money drive, although with debt it's a concern. I want to have the ability to choose something that is both bearable and compensates enough to live and payback debt for the first few years.

I'm in elsewhere (McGeorge with $$, USD, Loyola, and I'm sure more to come), but in the absence of some things going well for me (Hastings, Davis, some reaches), this is likely to be the choice.

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barry zuckerkorn
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby barry zuckerkorn » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:24 pm

I'd say USF here.

i'm usually an advocate for SCU, but at 26k [strike]renewable[/strike] (my bad) it's tough to justify more debt for roughly similar placement #s seeing as SCU's scholly reqs are pretty tough. If you were all about IP or PI/Govt work and looking to stay in the South Bay area, SCU all the way.. if you aren't sure, give your wallet a break; it's the fiscally responsible decision.

SCU is awesome though, very likely where I'll end up despite being admitted to a few "higher" ranked schools. Good luck either way

BruinsFan
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby BruinsFan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:28 pm

Great Satchmo I find ALL of your posts!

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sanpiero
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby sanpiero » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:31 pm

barry zuckerkorn wrote:I'd say USF here.

i'm usually an advocate for SCU, but at 26k [strike]renewable[/strike] (my bad) it's tough to justify more debt for roughly similar placement #s seeing as SCU's scholly reqs are pretty tough. If you were all about IP or PI/Govt work and looking to stay in the South Bay area, SCU all the way.. if you aren't sure, give your wallet a break; it's the fiscally responsible decision.

SCU is awesome though, very likely where I'll end up despite being admitted to a few "higher" ranked schools. Good luck either way


+1

eth3n
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby eth3n » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:00 pm

MINIMIZE DEBT!

redginseng
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby redginseng » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:42 pm

SCU

SCU has a reputation of a great IP school. That fact may seem irrelevant to someone who doesn't intend go into IP, but I think at least it gives an edge attracting better student body and faculty. Over the long run, I think it'll be a big asset in distinguish and turning itself into a better law school, which I think it has been doing. Comparing SCU and USF in the past 5 years, definitely SCU has been improving overall but USF appears to have lost direction.

Second, if we are talking about micro region, arguably SCU would be a second best law school in san jose. I'm sure SCU has more pull in the south bay than USF.

There's 14K difference between the two, which I don't think should play any role in deciding where to attend

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barry zuckerkorn
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby barry zuckerkorn » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:37 am

redginseng wrote:SCU

SCU has a reputation of a great IP school. That fact may seem irrelevant to someone who doesn't intend go into IP, but I think at least it gives an edge attracting better student body and faculty. Over the long run, I think it'll be a big asset in distinguish and turning itself into a better law school, which I think it has been doing. Comparing SCU and USF in the past 5 years, definitely SCU has been improving overall but USF appears to have lost direction.

Second, if we are talking about micro region, arguably SCU would be a second best law school in san jose. I'm sure SCU has more pull in the south bay than USF.

There's 14K difference between the two, which I don't think should play any role in deciding where to attend


That 14k is assuming Satchmo kept the top 1/4 requirement for his 4k scholly at SCU; otherwise it's a 22k difference. SCU is a little higher on tuition now than USF, too. 38k v. 36k. Small potatoes, but adds up (28k diff. altogether now), especially for someone who isn't sure what they want to do with their degree yet and may not land a 90k+ job.

I agree with you on the SCU/USF point, and almost the "go to SCU point", but USF's still has some clout, and their alumn network isn't going to scatter like roaches because the USNews rankings haven't been favorable lately, so OP should fair just fine with a little less than an extra years worth of tuition saved. Just seems more prudent.

But SCU is still awesome.

Satchmo, why not McGeorge? They have Sactown on lock. It's just them and Davis all alone up there, no Cal, Stanford or Hastings grads within an hour to snake OCI or anything.. and looking at some of the local, bigger firms, UOP places pretty well. Pretty, prettyyy, prettyyyy well.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:23 pm

barry zuckerkorn wrote:
redginseng wrote:SCU

SCU has a reputation of a great IP school. That fact may seem irrelevant to someone who doesn't intend go into IP, but I think at least it gives an edge attracting better student body and faculty. Over the long run, I think it'll be a big asset in distinguish and turning itself into a better law school, which I think it has been doing. Comparing SCU and USF in the past 5 years, definitely SCU has been improving overall but USF appears to have lost direction.

Second, if we are talking about micro region, arguably SCU would be a second best law school in san jose. I'm sure SCU has more pull in the south bay than USF.

There's 14K difference between the two, which I don't think should play any role in deciding where to attend


That 14k is assuming Satchmo kept the top 1/4 requirement for his 4k scholly at SCU; otherwise it's a 22k difference. SCU is a little higher on tuition now than USF, too. 38k v. 36k. Small potatoes, but adds up (28k diff. altogether now), especially for someone who isn't sure what they want to do with their degree yet and may not land a 90k+ job.

I agree with you on the SCU/USF point, and almost the "go to SCU point", but USF's still has some clout, and their alumn network isn't going to scatter like roaches because the USNews rankings haven't been favorable lately, so OP should fair just fine with a little less than an extra years worth of tuition saved. Just seems more prudent.

But SCU is still awesome.

Satchmo, why not McGeorge? They have Sactown on lock. It's just them and Davis all alone up there, no Cal, Stanford or Hastings grads within an hour to snake OCI or anything.. and looking at some of the local, bigger firms, UOP places pretty well. Pretty, prettyyy, prettyyyy well.


As far a scholarship consideration goes, I treat a renewable as if it was a 1 year, non-renewable scholarship, because really who knows. I'd hate to make a decision based upon that number, and end up only getting 1/3rd.

My sense is that SCU is held in a bit higher regard, and it feeds into the south bay market, which would not be as fierce. I would love to have the IP door open, but I have a social science background, and it seems to be the exception that people make it into that field. On the other hand, even for corporate law, the Silicon Valley and South Bay does have a fairly concentrated business sector, so that would be an advantage.

USF does seem to be wavering a little, and is positioned in a competitive market. The alumni base is strong but so are other graduating students. I do also wonder how well the USF degree will travel outside of the city vs. SCU, if push comes to shove and I would end up having to pursue work in the bay area rather than just SF.

As far as McGeorge? I'm still really split on this. I think part of it is that I am too wrapped up in rankings still, at least as far as unranked schools vs. ranked. I can't argue that the job prospects of a McGeorge grad in Sac look pretty solid, compared to USF grads in SF. Beyond the rankings, I just don't know that I'm at the point where I can commit to living in Sacramento for at least 5 or 6 years, if not longer. Given the COL, the potential to keep the scholarship, and the placement...it's a consideration I need to keep in mind, but it's going to be a hard decision to make.

At this point, I'm leaning to SCU for some reason I can't really describe. I think it's a mix of the school appearing fairly strong, the community/campus, and the possibility of getting involved with the tech community, even if it is through corporate law.

USD is also something I'm putting a lot of thought into as well...*sigh*.

I hope this all becomes moot by gaining admission to Hastings or Davis.

Cale39
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Cale39 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:57 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
barry zuckerkorn wrote:
redginseng wrote:SCU

SCU has a reputation of a great IP school. That fact may seem irrelevant to someone who doesn't intend go into IP, but I think at least it gives an edge attracting better student body and faculty. Over the long run, I think it'll be a big asset in distinguish and turning itself into a better law school, which I think it has been doing. Comparing SCU and USF in the past 5 years, definitely SCU has been improving overall but USF appears to have lost direction.

Second, if we are talking about micro region, arguably SCU would be a second best law school in san jose. I'm sure SCU has more pull in the south bay than USF.

There's 14K difference between the two, which I don't think should play any role in deciding where to attend


That 14k is assuming Satchmo kept the top 1/4 requirement for his 4k scholly at SCU; otherwise it's a 22k difference. SCU is a little higher on tuition now than USF, too. 38k v. 36k. Small potatoes, but adds up (28k diff. altogether now), especially for someone who isn't sure what they want to do with their degree yet and may not land a 90k+ job.

I agree with you on the SCU/USF point, and almost the "go to SCU point", but USF's still has some clout, and their alumn network isn't going to scatter like roaches because the USNews rankings haven't been favorable lately, so OP should fair just fine with a little less than an extra years worth of tuition saved. Just seems more prudent.

But SCU is still awesome.

Satchmo, why not McGeorge? They have Sactown on lock. It's just them and Davis all alone up there, no Cal, Stanford or Hastings grads within an hour to snake OCI or anything.. and looking at some of the local, bigger firms, UOP places pretty well. Pretty, prettyyy, prettyyyy well.


As far a scholarship consideration goes, I treat a renewable as if it was a 1 year, non-renewable scholarship, because really who knows. I'd hate to make a decision based upon that number, and end up only getting 1/3rd.

My sense is that SCU is held in a bit higher regard, and it feeds into the south bay market, which would not be as fierce. I would love to have the IP door open, but I have a social science background, and it seems to be the exception that people make it into that field. On the other hand, even for corporate law, the Silicon Valley and South Bay does have a fairly concentrated business sector, so that would be an advantage.

USF does seem to be wavering a little, and is positioned in a competitive market. The alumni base is strong but so are other graduating students. I do also wonder how well the USF degree will travel outside of the city vs. SCU, if push comes to shove and I would end up having to pursue work in the bay area rather than just SF.

As far as McGeorge? I'm still really split on this. I think part of it is that I am too wrapped up in rankings still, at least as far as unranked schools vs. ranked. I can't argue that the job prospects of a McGeorge grad in Sac look pretty solid, compared to USF grads in SF. Beyond the rankings, I just don't know that I'm at the point where I can commit to living in Sacramento for at least 5 or 6 years, if not longer. Given the COL, the potential to keep the scholarship, and the placement...it's a consideration I need to keep in mind, but it's going to be a hard decision to make.

At this point, I'm leaning to SCU for some reason I can't really describe. I think it's a mix of the school appearing fairly strong, the community/campus, and the possibility of getting involved with the tech community, even if it is through corporate law.

USD is also something I'm putting a lot of thought into as well...*sigh*.

I hope this all becomes moot by gaining admission to Hastings or Davis.


Thats exactly how I feel.

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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby jazzluvr » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:13 am

If you call USF and ask about scholarships past the first year, you'll find out that if you make dean's list (top 5%, I think) they will give you a large scholarship for the second year anyway (something like up to 80%), even though your first year scholly is not officially renewable. The difference is that anyone who makes the dean's list there the first year qualifies for it - it's not limited to students who were offered scholarships out of the gate. And of course you could lose the scholly as SCU, as a previous poster pointed out. So that doesn't seem much of a consideration.

I've heard the student body at USF is very friendly but I have no personal experience. I also have a friend at SCU who says the same thing.

The weather at USF sucks big time, even during the summer. Freezing cold and windy as hell most of the time. But you know SF, so you probably already know that.

yo!
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby yo! » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:34 am

What are your numbers?

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:51 pm

jazzluvr wrote:If you call USF and ask about scholarships past the first year, you'll find out that if you make dean's list (top 5%, I think) they will give you a large scholarship for the second year anyway (something like up to 80%), even though your first year scholly is not officially renewable. The difference is that anyone who makes the dean's list there the first year qualifies for it - it's not limited to students who were offered scholarships out of the gate. And of course you could lose the scholly as SCU, as a previous poster pointed out. So that doesn't seem much of a consideration.

I've heard the student body at USF is very friendly but I have no personal experience. I also have a friend at SCU who says the same thing.

The weather at USF sucks big time, even during the summer. Freezing cold and windy as hell most of the time. But you know SF, so you probably already know that.


Well, the compelling part of the USF scholarship is that it's all at once. I'm thinking of renewable scholarships with stipulations as a 1-year deal, so to me SCU is for $4k.

I work at UCSF on Parnassus, and it's ALWAYS windy and cold here, I was actually surprised (I live downtown in SoMa).

I feel like USF and SCU are rather equitable, but I just can't determine if SCU has the edge on placement or not, the data seems incomplete and skewed.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:51 pm

yo! wrote:What are your numbers?


160/3.62 - softs = full time research position at Stanford, publications, club leadership, etc.

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BiteyTLS
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby BiteyTLS » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:15 am

barry zuckerkorn wrote:
redginseng wrote:SCU

SCU has a reputation of a great IP school. That fact may seem irrelevant to someone who doesn't intend go into IP, but I think at least it gives an edge attracting better student body and faculty. Over the long run, I think it'll be a big asset in distinguish and turning itself into a better law school, which I think it has been doing. Comparing SCU and USF in the past 5 years, definitely SCU has been improving overall but USF appears to have lost direction.

Second, if we are talking about micro region, arguably SCU would be a second best law school in san jose. I'm sure SCU has more pull in the south bay than USF.

There's 14K difference between the two, which I don't think should play any role in deciding where to attend


That 14k is assuming Satchmo kept the top 1/4 requirement for his 4k scholly at SCU; otherwise it's a 22k difference. SCU is a little higher on tuition now than USF, too. 38k v. 36k. Small potatoes, but adds up (28k diff. altogether now), especially for someone who isn't sure what they want to do with their degree yet and may not land a 90k+ job.

I agree with you on the SCU/USF point, and almost the "go to SCU point", but USF's still has some clout, and their alumn network isn't going to scatter like roaches because the USNews rankings haven't been favorable lately, so OP should fair just fine with a little less than an extra years worth of tuition saved. Just seems more prudent.

But SCU is still awesome.

Satchmo, why not McGeorge? They have Sactown on lock. It's just them and Davis all alone up there, no Cal, Stanford or Hastings grads within an hour to snake OCI or anything.. and looking at some of the local, bigger firms, UOP places pretty well. Pretty, prettyyy, prettyyyy well.


Because McGeorge is a festering third-tier toilet. Sacramento is very saturated- and there are plenty of Davis, Hastings, UCLA, USC, and Cal grads up here.

OP, you might want to reconsider law school. Neither USF/SCU play in this economy....you would be very lucky to get a small-law job for 50k and you would be 150k down the hole.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:16 am

BiteyTLS wrote:
barry zuckerkorn wrote:
redginseng wrote:SCU

SCU has a reputation of a great IP school. That fact may seem irrelevant to someone who doesn't intend go into IP, but I think at least it gives an edge attracting better student body and faculty. Over the long run, I think it'll be a big asset in distinguish and turning itself into a better law school, which I think it has been doing. Comparing SCU and USF in the past 5 years, definitely SCU has been improving overall but USF appears to have lost direction.

Second, if we are talking about micro region, arguably SCU would be a second best law school in san jose. I'm sure SCU has more pull in the south bay than USF.

There's 14K difference between the two, which I don't think should play any role in deciding where to attend


That 14k is assuming Satchmo kept the top 1/4 requirement for his 4k scholly at SCU; otherwise it's a 22k difference. SCU is a little higher on tuition now than USF, too. 38k v. 36k. Small potatoes, but adds up (28k diff. altogether now), especially for someone who isn't sure what they want to do with their degree yet and may not land a 90k+ job.

I agree with you on the SCU/USF point, and almost the "go to SCU point", but USF's still has some clout, and their alumn network isn't going to scatter like roaches because the USNews rankings haven't been favorable lately, so OP should fair just fine with a little less than an extra years worth of tuition saved. Just seems more prudent.

But SCU is still awesome.

Satchmo, why not McGeorge? They have Sactown on lock. It's just them and Davis all alone up there, no Cal, Stanford or Hastings grads within an hour to snake OCI or anything.. and looking at some of the local, bigger firms, UOP places pretty well. Pretty, prettyyy, prettyyyy well.


Because McGeorge is a festering third-tier toilet. Sacramento is very saturated- and there are plenty of Davis, Hastings, UCLA, USC, and Cal grads up here.

OP, you might want to reconsider law school. Neither USF/SCU play in this economy....you would be very lucky to get a small-law job for 50k and you would be 150k down the hole.


[/typical TLS post]

Thanks.

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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby elmagic » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:29 am

I know a few lawyers who graduated from SCU, they all work in legal aid offices around the bay area. They seem pretty happy with what they do, but I think you suffer from the lack-of-affordable-state-option here. Honestly though USF is not worth that much debt, I don't think SCU is either.

If you want an honest opinion I would say if you can't get into Hastings or Davis, and you are absolutely sure you want to stay in California, I'd apply to Southwestern, or Chapman.

Both of these schools are ranked lower than USF or SCU but I bet you can get close to full tuition there, leaving you with less debt and comparable job prospects.

fortissimo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby fortissimo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:22 am

BiteyTLS wrote:OP, you might want to reconsider law school. Neither USF/SCU play in this economy....you would be very lucky to get a small-law job for 50k and you would be 150k down the hole.


This seems harsh, but I think it's good advice unless you have a hard science background and are pursuing patent law.

The Bay Area market is saturated. I know a Santa Clara 3L in the top 10% of the class on SC Law Review who is still volunteering for unpaid internships. Given, he is interning at the US Attorney's office now, but it is very hard to break into the corporate law -- not just biglaw-- from either of these schools.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:45 pm

Clearly some of you have an issue reading. I believe the title was USF vs. SCU, not "please tell me how poor of a decision I'm making".

This is the career path I've chosen, I am excited for it, it's going to be hard, but ultimately this is what I want to do.

Please take this obnoxious attitude into a Georgetown thread to bash people there.

Thanks.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 1:50 pm

barry zuckerkorn wrote:I'd say USF here.

i'm usually an advocate for SCU, but at 26k [strike]renewable[/strike] (my bad) it's tough to justify more debt for roughly similar placement #s seeing as SCU's scholly reqs are pretty tough. If you were all about IP or PI/Govt work and looking to stay in the South Bay area, SCU all the way.. if you aren't sure, give your wallet a break; it's the fiscally responsible decision.

SCU is awesome though, very likely where I'll end up despite being admitted to a few "higher" ranked schools. Good luck either way


I guess I just wonder at what point the scholarship numbers become negligible. In the face of well over $100k in debt, how much is a significant difference?

I wouldn't mind the south bay down the road.

I think I'm pretty committed to doing some sort of business/corporate law, or at least finding an area that is challenging, intellectually stimulating, and marketable in that arena.

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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby NayBoer » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:01 pm

I applied to USF, decided against applying to SCU, and would've taken UOP over either. Sacramento is not a great market, and McGeorge is not an amazing school, but USF is only very fractionally better and suffers from being in a tougher market with Hastings and Boalt right there. McGeorge also gives more money than the other two. As for rankings, USF and UOP are interchangeable with very bottom T100 and top of the third tier. SCU isn't all that much better for jobs, despite being more solidly in the T100.

The problem swith SW or Chapman is those are way far south. If you want northern CA, unless you can get UCLA or USC I'd stick with something up here.

I'd probably go with SCU over USF. Just seems more like a school on the rise, and big picture San Jose is growing while SF is not. Also, I imagine COL would be mildly more reasonable in South Bay.

BruinsFan
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby BruinsFan » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:10 pm

NayBoer wrote:I applied to USF, decided against applying to SCU, and would've taken UOP over either. Sacramento is not a great market, and McGeorge is not an amazing school, but USF is only very fractionally better and suffers from being in a tougher market with Hastings and Boalt right there. McGeorge also gives more money than the other two. As for rankings, USF and UOP are interchangeable with very bottom T100 and top of the third tier. SCU isn't all that much better for jobs, despite being more solidly in the T100.

The problem swith SW or Chapman is those are way far south. If you want northern CA, unless you can get UCLA or USC I'd stick with something up here.

I'd probably go with SCU over USF. Just seems more like a school on the rise, and big picture San Jose is growing while SF is not. Also, I imagine COL would be mildly more reasonable in South Bay.


This makes a lot of sense to me. It would just be heartbreaking to go to McGeorge and then lose the $$ for 2L and 3L. I agree with the OP that you can't go to a school solely because of the money.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:16 pm

NayBoer wrote:I applied to USF, decided against applying to SCU, and would've taken UOP over either. Sacramento is not a great market, and McGeorge is not an amazing school, but USF is only very fractionally better and suffers from being in a tougher market with Hastings and Boalt right there. McGeorge also gives more money than the other two. As for rankings, USF and UOP are interchangeable with very bottom T100 and top of the third tier. SCU isn't all that much better for jobs, despite being more solidly in the T100.

The problem swith SW or Chapman is those are way far south. If you want northern CA, unless you can get UCLA or USC I'd stick with something up here.

I'd probably go with SCU over USF. Just seems more like a school on the rise, and big picture San Jose is growing while SF is not. Also, I imagine COL would be mildly more reasonable in South Bay.


I guess I was placing McGeorge below USF by the rankings, and I am remiss to fall into that trap. Good point. I'd be pretty interested in McGeorge if I wasn't so reticent about Sacramento. Plus, with stipulations, if I lost the scholarship after 1L, I'd be pretty upset about the choice to attend (I may try to see if I can negotiate removal of the stipulations, not likely, but if it happened it'd be a game changer).

The SV and South Bay do seem to be a bit better for SCU, than USF in SF. As far as COL, this should be negated (and then some) by the $26k at USF, vs. $4k renewable at SCU.


I think SCU seeming more established, being in a secondary market to SF, and the intangibles (beautiful area/campus, probably more of a campus community feel) are what keep pulling me in.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:18 pm

BruinsFan wrote:
NayBoer wrote:I applied to USF, decided against applying to SCU, and would've taken UOP over either. Sacramento is not a great market, and McGeorge is not an amazing school, but USF is only very fractionally better and suffers from being in a tougher market with Hastings and Boalt right there. McGeorge also gives more money than the other two. As for rankings, USF and UOP are interchangeable with very bottom T100 and top of the third tier. SCU isn't all that much better for jobs, despite being more solidly in the T100.

The problem swith SW or Chapman is those are way far south. If you want northern CA, unless you can get UCLA or USC I'd stick with something up here.

I'd probably go with SCU over USF. Just seems more like a school on the rise, and big picture San Jose is growing while SF is not. Also, I imagine COL would be mildly more reasonable in South Bay.


This makes a lot of sense to me. It would just be heartbreaking to go to McGeorge and then lose the $$ for 2L and 3L. I agree with the OP that you can't go to a school solely because of the money.


Oh, absolutely.

The only reason I'd attend McGeorge is for the reduction in debt and the relatively strong placement in Sac. I've seen their offer as a one year scholarship.

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barry zuckerkorn
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby barry zuckerkorn » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:31 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:Clearly some of you have an issue reading. I believe the title was USF vs. SCU, not "please tell me how poor of a decision I'm making".

This is the career path I've chosen, I am excited for it, it's going to be hard, but ultimately this is what I want to do.

Please take this obnoxious attitude into a Georgetown thread to bash people there.

Thanks.


Well played.

I know there's threads for this (like GULC), so I'm not trying to start one here, but it's not only presumptuous for all of the 0L/1L Chicken Little esque predictions of the legal market 3-4 years from now, it's pointless.

Great Satchmo wrote:
barry zuckerkorn wrote:I'd say USF here.

i'm usually an advocate for SCU, but at 26k [strike]renewable[/strike] (my bad) it's tough to justify more debt for roughly similar placement #s seeing as SCU's scholly reqs are pretty tough. If you were all about IP or PI/Govt work and looking to stay in the South Bay area, SCU all the way.. if you aren't sure, give your wallet a break; it's the fiscally responsible decision.

SCU is awesome though, very likely where I'll end up despite being admitted to a few "higher" ranked schools. Good luck either way


I guess I just wonder at what point the scholarship numbers become negligible. In the face of well over $100k in debt, how much is a significant difference?

I wouldn't mind the south bay down the road.

I think I'm pretty committed to doing some sort of business/corporate law, or at least finding an area that is challenging, intellectually stimulating, and marketable in that arena.


If you don't mind the valley, and know what you want to do with you JD and have reasonable expectations, then I'll amend my USF answer and say SCU all the way.

Money wise, I see your point- when it's 100k+, how much does that extra 20k matter? but I think if you're garnering interest, the answer is it sucks that much more, especially if you're going to lower top100 law school with the pipe-dream of securing six-figures or you're not into doing PI work and taking advantage of the IRB/CCRAA. Doesn't sound like you are, and playing around with this http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml could help manage your expectations even more. The impressions I've gathered from talking to SCU students is 0Ls do kinda get stiffed, but if you play your cards right your as a 1L (grades/writing/appealing/etc) they're more liberal with the cash-money; they even have a scholly for the kids in the BOTTOM quarter of the class... don't see the point in rewarding that sort of failure, but that's neither here nor there.

Job wise, you've heard the long and short of it all over this thread already, and summed it up yourself; it's not easy out there right now, but that's not to say there isn't work. I know a 2L who had a summer gig overseas last summer, and this summer is interning with a large firm in the valley, who have several friends that landed paying gigs at the Santa Clara PD and DA's offices. According to that 2L, very few people landed paying summer gigs with business/corporate/IP firms this go-around (no shock there, really), but does insist the jobs are out there, or have been for group of people they know.

Any school that isn't Stanford or Boalt WILL require leg work in tracking down a job in the bay area, but a search of SCU's OCI on this site (which I don't think is entirely complete in and of itself; there's a few PD offices that don't show up on NALP search that SCU lists on their site)--LinkRemoved-- v. USF, Hastings, etc., could lend better insight than the predictions on TLS and avoid the irrelevant railings of kids who needed to be hugged more when they were young.

But SCU.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: University of San Francisco vs. Santa Clara

Postby Great Satchmo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:32 pm

barry zuckerkorn wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:Clearly some of you have an issue reading. I believe the title was USF vs. SCU, not "please tell me how poor of a decision I'm making".

This is the career path I've chosen, I am excited for it, it's going to be hard, but ultimately this is what I want to do.

Please take this obnoxious attitude into a Georgetown thread to bash people there.

Thanks.


Well played.

I know there's threads for this (like GULC), so I'm not trying to start one here, but it's not only presumptuous for all of the 0L/1L Chicken Little esque predictions of the legal market 3-4 years from now, it's pointless.

Great Satchmo wrote:
barry zuckerkorn wrote:I'd say USF here.

i'm usually an advocate for SCU, but at 26k [strike]renewable[/strike] (my bad) it's tough to justify more debt for roughly similar placement #s seeing as SCU's scholly reqs are pretty tough. If you were all about IP or PI/Govt work and looking to stay in the South Bay area, SCU all the way.. if you aren't sure, give your wallet a break; it's the fiscally responsible decision.

SCU is awesome though, very likely where I'll end up despite being admitted to a few "higher" ranked schools. Good luck either way


I guess I just wonder at what point the scholarship numbers become negligible. In the face of well over $100k in debt, how much is a significant difference?

I wouldn't mind the south bay down the road.

I think I'm pretty committed to doing some sort of business/corporate law, or at least finding an area that is challenging, intellectually stimulating, and marketable in that arena.


If you don't mind the valley, and know what you want to do with you JD and have reasonable expectations, then I'll amend my USF answer and say SCU all the way.

Money wise, I see your point- when it's 100k+, how much does that extra 20k matter? but I think if you're garnering interest, the answer is it sucks that much more, especially if you're going to lower top100 law school with the pipe-dream of securing six-figures or you're not into doing PI work and taking advantage of the IRB/CCRAA. Doesn't sound like you are, and playing around with this http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml could help manage your expectations even more. The impressions I've gathered from talking to SCU students is 0Ls do kinda get stiffed, but if you play your cards right your as a 1L (grades/writing/appealing/etc) they're more liberal with the cash-money; they even have a scholly for the kids in the BOTTOM quarter of the class... don't see the point in rewarding that sort of failure, but that's neither here nor there.

Job wise, you've heard the long and short of it all over this thread already, and summed it up yourself; it's not easy out there right now, but that's not to say there isn't work. I know a 2L who had a summer gig overseas last summer, and this summer is interning with a large firm in the valley, who have several friends that landed paying gigs at the Santa Clara PD and DA's offices. According to that 2L, very few people landed paying summer gigs with business/corporate/IP firms this go-around (no shock there, really), but does insist the jobs are out there, or have been for group of people they know.

Any school that isn't Stanford or Boalt WILL require leg work in tracking down a job in the bay area, but a search of SCU's OCI on this site (which I don't think is entirely complete in and of itself; there's a few PD offices that don't show up on NALP search that SCU lists on their site)--LinkRemoved-- v. USF, Hastings, etc., could lend better insight than the predictions on TLS and avoid the irrelevant railings of kids who needed to be hugged more when they were young.

But SCU.


I need to read up on the employment implications of OCI at schools, and then compare and contrast. I suppose this, plus employment numbers (taken with a grain of salt) will lend itself to the best picture available.

As far as loan calculations, it begs the question of how to anticipate scholarship. If it's renewable, do you make the decision to go to the school based on keeping it for three years? Or, do you attend the school you'd attend regardless of scholarship, and take it as a bonus?

For example, with SCU, it seems that there are a number of scholarships you can compete to obtain for 2L...well...kinda sounds like a renewable scholarship with stipulations: do well, and you get cash. So even though McGeorge is saying "be in the top 1/3rd of the class and you get cash", other schools may implicitly offer scholarships by class standing - either way, they are not guaranteed and banking on class standing seems to be extremely risky.

Given this, and my acceptances thus far, I feel like USD and SCU should be at the top of the list (despite no money from USD - and I think Loyola doesn't make sense for me...). They seem to have better job prospects in secondary markets, rather than being secondary schools in primary markets. The costs will be high, but if I do well I can reduce those costs and potentially find decent work.

I have no problems with the Valley. As much as I love living in the city, I realize that going to school in an insulated community with nice suburb around it played into my strengths of being able to focus. Having lived in Mountain View, I can definitely see myself moving back down there.

I think I'm talking myself into SCU...that or USD where I could live at home and save on housing for the first semester/year/however long I could stand it living at home - which could amount to what I'd be awarded at SCU the first and possibly second year....

*sigh* Please, Hastings/Davis/other reach...swoop in and make this easy. On another note...I'm W/L'd at Cardozo...




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