Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

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garfike
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Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby garfike » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:24 am

HYS
CC
NMBVP
DN
GC

Before you flame me, this is just how I personally feel and wanted to here some thoughts from others.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:25 am

garfike wrote:HYS
CC
NMBVP
DN
GC

Before you flame me, this is just how I personally feel and wanted to here some thoughts from others.



Duke
Penn
Yale
TTT

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Veyron
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby Veyron » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:26 am

Lulz, this site is as bad about the anti-NYU trolling as Auto Admit is about the anti-Chicago trolling.

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McNabb
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby McNabb » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:30 am

garfike wrote:HYS
CC
NMBVP
DN
GC

Before you flame me, this is just how I personally feel and wanted to here some thoughts from others.


From everything I've ever seen this is a better picture of what it looks like if you stop valuing one particular market over all others (cough cough NYC) and take into account all of the schools ability nationwide. I might do something like make Stanford and Penn lowercase letters for each of their groups. Stanford because it's rep does seem to wane a bit outside of Cali, while H and Y's reputations don't wane anywhere. In addition, H and Y really seem to have S when it comes to Supreme Court clerkships and COA clerkships outside of California plus academia. Penn because it seems to be slightly behind NMBV when it comes to it's reputation amongst lawyers and outside of the northeast. I totally agree with putting Duke and NU ahead of GULC and Cornell. Duke and NU have been significantly out placing those two schools enough for them to merit a higher spot than GULC and Cornell. This ordering also comes closer to aligning with the rep scores that US News releases as well.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:30 am

garfike wrote:HYS
CC
NMBVP
DN
GC

Before you flame me, this is just how I personally feel and wanted to here some thoughts from others.


You stole this from another thread.

09042014
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:31 am

In terms of big law placement?

HYS
CCN
MVPBNDC
G

In terms of national mobility?

HYSCC
NVMPB
DNCG

In terms of federal appellate clerking?

HYS
Chi
CNMBPVND
CG

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Veyron
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby Veyron » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:38 am

TBF, in the Mountain West firm bios I've seen, the NYU, CHI, CLS people tend to have a lower class rank and less prestigious resume stuff than the MVP people, leading me to believe firms will consistantly go deeper at the T-6 even far away from NYC.

Also, Penn lowercase? WTF? I'd take it over MVPB in a (1/2) hearbeat. Ivy, + best in plenty of buisness and law related specialties + higher rank than MVP = awsome.

galahad85
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby galahad85 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:38 am

McNabb wrote:I totally agree with putting Duke and NU ahead of GULC and Cornell. Duke and NU have been significantly out placing those two schools enough for them to merit a higher spot than GULC and Cornell. This ordering also comes closer to aligning with the rep scores that US News releases as well.


Cornell places just as well as Duke/NU, and both Cornell and GULC have higher reputation scores than NU, so I don't see how this makes sense.

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chadwick218
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:39 am

Desert Fox wrote:In terms of big law placement?

HYS
CCN
MVPBNDC
G

In terms of national mobility?

HYSCC
NVMPB
DNCG

In terms of federal appellate clerking?

HYS
Chi
CNMBPVND
CG


Fox, you may be selling NU short in terms of national placement. I would argue that they place equally as well nationally as do VMPB! Indeed, in a couple of surveys, NU ranks #4 overall in terms of big law placement.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:39 am

galahad85 wrote:
McNabb wrote:I totally agree with putting Duke and NU ahead of GULC and Cornell. Duke and NU have been significantly out placing those two schools enough for them to merit a higher spot than GULC and Cornell. This ordering also comes closer to aligning with the rep scores that US News releases as well.


Cornell places just as well as Duke/NU, and both Cornell and GULC have higher reputation scores than NU, so I don't see how this makes sense.


Lol, Wut?

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chadwick218
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:41 am

HYS
CCN
BMVPND
C
GULC (I would be very happy to place higher if they didn't have so damn many students)

galahad85
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby galahad85 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:42 am

jawsthegreat wrote:
galahad85 wrote:
McNabb wrote:I totally agree with putting Duke and NU ahead of GULC and Cornell. Duke and NU have been significantly out placing those two schools enough for them to merit a higher spot than GULC and Cornell. This ordering also comes closer to aligning with the rep scores that US News releases as well.


Cornell places just as well as Duke/NU, and both Cornell and GULC have higher reputation scores than NU, so I don't see how this makes sense.


Lol, Wut?


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

Not a perfect account, but should be enough to show that Cornell isn't "significantly out placed" by any means.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:43 am

HYS
CCN
MVPB
DN
CG

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stratocophic
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby stratocophic » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:43 am

Desert Fox wrote:In terms of big law placement?

HYS
CCN
MVPBNDC
G

In terms of national mobility?

HYSCC
NVMPB
DNCG

In terms of federal appellate clerking?

HYS
Chi
CNMBPVND
CG


I like it. Breaking schools down in terms of "who's the best school?" isn't that useful when looking at legal education from a broad perspective. Clerkship =/= Biglaw =/= Academia =/= National Prospects for almost all of the T14. It's not particularly convenient, but there are strengths and weaknesses to each school (except for Y, maybe H, and maybe S) in each category listed. I'd say anti-GTown trolling but I think we all know that's not true :lol:

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McNabb
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby McNabb » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:44 am

galahad85 wrote:http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

Not a perfect account, but should be enough to show that Cornell isn't "significantly out placed" by any means.


The nlj250 is extraordinarily NYC biased. When you start looking at regions like DC, California, Chicago, Texas, and the south things start getting pretty ugly for Cornell.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:45 am

galahad85 wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
galahad85 wrote:
McNabb wrote:I totally agree with putting Duke and NU ahead of GULC and Cornell. Duke and NU have been significantly out placing those two schools enough for them to merit a higher spot than GULC and Cornell. This ordering also comes closer to aligning with the rep scores that US News releases as well.


Cornell places just as well as Duke/NU, and both Cornell and GULC have higher reputation scores than NU, so I don't see how this makes sense.


Lol, Wut?


http://www.law.com/pdf/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

Not a perfect account, but should be enough to show that Cornell isn't "significantly out placed" by any means.


Class of 2005 stats =/= current outlook.

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Veyron
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby Veyron » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:48 am

Sometimes, novelty isn't the end all to be all:

HYS
CCN
MVPB
DCNG

/thread

09042014
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:49 am

Veyron wrote:Sometimes, novelty isn't the end all to be all:

HYS
CCN
MVPB
DCNG

/thread


Explain why you think Duke is better than Uva.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby jawsthegreat » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:58 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Veyron wrote:Sometimes, novelty isn't the end all to be all:

HYS
CCN
MVPB
DCNG

/thread


Explain why you think Duke is better than Uva.


?

galahad85
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby galahad85 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:59 am

jawsthegreat wrote:
Class of 2005 stats =/= current outlook.


No, but it gives an idea of how schools stand relative to one another. In the absence of more current data, this seems better than simply relying on the hearsay that passes for TLS wisdom lately. There's really no data (yet) to support the assumption that Cornell has been hit harder than its (formerly?) peer schools, so we shouldn't be stating it as fact.

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im_blue
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:00 am

Y (undisputed #1)
H (weaker numbers and yield than Y)
S (weaker numbers and less national than HY)
---
CC
N (weaker placement than CC)
---
MVP
B (weaker non-CA placement than MVP)
---
DN (strong placement on par with MVPB)
C (weakest numbers of the T14)
G (weakest placement of the T14)

(Posted in the Berkeley in decline thread as well)

09042014
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:02 am

jawsthegreat wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Veyron wrote:Sometimes, novelty isn't the end all to be all:

HYS
CCN
MVPB
DCNG

/thread


Explain why you think Duke is better than Uva.


?


I'm an idiot. I mean, explain why you think UVa is better than Duke? Duke places equal to or better than UVA it in V100 firms, and slightly worse in clerkships.

If it wasn't for USNWR nobody would say UVa is better than Duke.

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chadwick218
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby chadwick218 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:06 am

Desert Fox wrote:Explain why you think Duke is better than Uva.


undergraduate lay prestige and the fact that Duke has a much smaller class size (which is arguably beneficial in a down market) ... legal history, however, clearly favors UVA, though!
Last edited by chadwick218 on Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sophia.olive
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby sophia.olive » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:06 am

Y



hs

c
cn
b
MVP

dn(Texas)
cg

09042014
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Re: Toughts on the T14 breakdown?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:09 am

chadwick218 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Explain why you think Duke is better than Uva.


undergraduate lay prestige and the fact that Duke has a much smaller class size (which is arguably beneficial in a down market) ... legal history, however, clearly favors UVA, though!


I was being dyslexic. I mean to ask why he thought UVa was better than Duke. Because I see them as peer schools.




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