Duke vs. Michigan? Forum

[miamiman]

2 pp of replies and not one has drawn attention to the fact that michigans class size is 2x duke's.


Smaller class size ITE ftw!




I disclaim the above by mentioning I pulled my ED app at michigan and was subsequently rejected. Also, going to ls in a failed state wasn't particularly attractive to me. hth

[soullesswonder]

Hey HEY hey! Thought I would pop in and drop some knowledge on the Duke side too. Duke has a smaller class than Michigan. The benefit here is that not only is there a greater opportunity for you to befriend your peers and professors since you don't just blend into a crowd, but you are also competing with less of you classmates for jobs.

2 pp of replies and not one has drawn attention to the fact that michigans class size is 2x duke's.


Smaller class size ITE ftw!




I disclaim the above by mentioning I pulled my ED app at michigan and was subsequently rejected. Also, going to ls in a failed state wasn't particularly attractive to me. hth

RC fail.

[im_blue]

Either one would place similarly into NYC. Make your decision based on money or personal factors (location, campus, feel, etc).

[Bosque]

Thanks for delivering the appropriate smack-downs for me, Dr. House.

Also, because it bears repeating:

...nearly 50% of Duke's graduates take jobs in the South after graduation.

And now the ACTUAL placement stats, from here: http://www.law.duke.edu/career/resources/facts

Code: Select all

Graduating Class   2008	 2007	 2006
Northeast	       27.6%	31.5%	33.3%
Mid-Atlantic	    20.7%	21.6%	17.6%
South Atlantic	  16.7%	18.9%	19.4%
Mid-West	        6.9%	 5.9%	 3.2%
South	           12.8%	8.1%	 12.5%
West	            15.3%	12.6%	11.7%
International	   0.0%	 1.4%	 2.3% 

So do you just talk out of your ass as a hobby, or are you planning to turn loquacity of the posterior into a career?

[irishman86]

Does one of these schools have a better reputation nationally?

Michigan seems to beat Duke in nearly every measurable category. It also spreads its graduates out more evenly across the country, whereas nearly 50% of Duke's graduates take jobs in the South after graduation.

USNWR Peer Assessment:

Michigan 4.4
Duke 4.2

USNWR Judges/Lawyers Assessment:

Michigan 4.5
Duke 4.4

Article III federal clerkship placement:

Michigan 14.0%
Duke 11.7%

NY Bar passage rate:

Michigan 95.7%
Duke 87.7%

NLJ 250 2009 hiring:

Michigan 51.0%
Duke 49.8%

+1. Also, smaller class size doesn't help ITE. Just look at Cornell's recent biglaw placement.....crap.

[yourdadcalled]

Thanks for delivering the appropriate smack-downs for me, Dr. House.

Also, because it bears repeating:

...nearly 50% of Duke's graduates take jobs in the South after graduation.

And now the ACTUAL placement stats, from here: http://www.law.duke.edu/career/resources/facts

Code: Select all

Graduating Class   2008	 2007	 2006
Northeast	       27.6%	31.5%	33.3%
Mid-Atlantic	    20.7%	21.6%	17.6%
South Atlantic	  16.7%	18.9%	19.4%
Mid-West	        6.9%	 5.9%	 3.2%
South	           12.8%	8.1%	 12.5%
West	            15.3%	12.6%	11.7%
International	   0.0%	 1.4%	 2.3% 

So do you just talk out of your ass as a hobby, or are you planning to turn loquacity of the posterior into a career?

"loquacity of the posterior" i really hope you don't actually speak like that. it's neither creative nor funny.

For a total of 48%, UNSWR's employment location for Duke Law's 2007 class:

South Atlantic (Delaware, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 41%
West South Central (Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas) 6%
East South Central (Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Tennessee) 1%

...waiting for someone to say that DC isn't "the south"

[yourdadcalled]

Smaller class size ITE ftw!

even though duke is smaller, michigan still trumps it in every conceivable category.

[awesomepossum]

Smaller class size ITE ftw!

even though duke is smaller, michigan still trumps it in every conceivable category.

Wrong. I can conceive of the category "more south." "Shorter name." "Better basketball team." "Longer name of basketball coach of said basketball team."

[Bosque]

Thanks for delivering the appropriate smack-downs for me, Dr. House.

Also, because it bears repeating:

...nearly 50% of Duke's graduates take jobs in the South after graduation.

And now the ACTUAL placement stats, from here: http://www.law.duke.edu/career/resources/facts

Code: Select all

Graduating Class   2008	 2007	 2006
Northeast	       27.6%	31.5%	33.3%
Mid-Atlantic	    20.7%	21.6%	17.6%
South Atlantic	  16.7%	18.9%	19.4%
Mid-West	        6.9%	 5.9%	 3.2%
South	           12.8%	8.1%	 12.5%
West	            15.3%	12.6%	11.7%
International	   0.0%	 1.4%	 2.3% 

So do you just talk out of your ass as a hobby, or are you planning to turn loquacity of the posterior into a career?

"loquacity of the posterior" i really hope you don't actually speak like that. it's neither creative nor funny.

For a total of 48%, UNSWR's employment location for Duke Law's 2007 class:

South Atlantic (Delaware, DC, FL, GA, MD, NC, SC, VA, WV) 41%
West South Central (Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas) 6%
East South Central (Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Tennessee) 1%

...waiting for someone to say that DC isn't "the south"

Hell, I will say it. DC is not the south. When people talk about placing heavily in "the south" as a bad thing, they are typically not thinking of the Nation's capitol. In fact, it is probably the number two most desired location after NYC. Including it in your statistic while claiming placing in the south is a bad thing is incredibly disingenuous. Delaware, Maryland, and Texas are not the South either. People from the South would argue Florida, Oklahoma and West Virginia don't count either (but mostly on that last one because no one wants to claim West Virginia), but I am more than willing to concede that they are. Taking out even just DC from that 41% number, what does it drop to? (Also, try and include your source in the future. If you pull out stats, people want to know where they come from.)

Further, what exactly are Michigan's placement stats? Even if we were to accept your 48% statistic (which is wrong), it means nothing in a vacuum. You have yet to show that Duke is doing worse than Michigan (or other schools) in this category, or even attempted to explain how 48% placement in those 16 states (and one very important district) negatively impacts graduates getting jobs where they want.

And of course you don't think it is "creative or funny". It was directed at you-you are a biased judge. And no, I don't talk like that. No one does. In any case, at least I know where the shift key is.

(Oh, and for all you Michiganites: I like you, and I like your school. I just don't like misinformation being spread about mine. While I personally think Duke is the better school, this is not an attack on Michigan. Just a defense of Duke.)

[yourdadcalled]

how am i a biased judge, and where did i claim that placement in the south is a bad thing

[gmail]

I vote Michigan, simply b/c I've met several impressive people with JDs from Michigan and the only person I associate with Duke law is Tucker Max.

[miamiman]

Forget it. I'm not going to argue with umich trolls

[awesomepossum]

Forget it. I'm not going to argue with umich trolls

For the record I would have a very soft spot for your arguments because Domokun = AWESOME.

[gmail]

holy moly, awesomepossum is still around. what about awesomerossum?

[awesomepossum]

no just me.

I almost left a couple times but it turns out TLS is a brilliant procrastination machine.

[miamiman]

no just me.

I almost left a couple times but it turns out TLS is a brilliant procrastination machine.

I pray ill be able to turn this shit off for ls.

[awesomepossum]

no just me.

I almost left a couple times but it turns out TLS is a brilliant procrastination machine.

I pray ill be able to turn this shit off for ls.

I hope you'll be able to as well. My misadventures in that area are legendary ... to myself.

[soullesswonder]

Calling DC part of the South is beyond disingenuous, both from a cultural perspective and (more relevantly) a legal market perspective. Texas is its own legal market, with its own set of LS hierarchies and connections. DC is arguably the most competitive legal market and is full of firms that have no offices in the actual South. NOVA is a little less exclusive but demographically has departed from the rest of the state. I won't even speak about the ridiculous decision to group DE and MD with GA and SC.

Bottom Line: the USNEWS groupings are retarded (excuse me: developmentally challenged) and bear no resemblance to the actual boundaries of regional legal markets.

[Jericwithers]

Top destinations (numbers of students) for 2008:

New York: 42 -- 18.6%
DC: 37 -- 16.4%
California: 21 -- 9.3%
North Carolina: 19 -- 8.4%
Georgia: 13 -- 5.7%
Texas: 12 -- 5.3%
Illinois: 8 -- 3.5%
Florida: 7 -- 3.1%
Pennsylvania: 6 -- 2.6%

Not sure how many people are in the C/O 2008, but I used 225 to make percentages.

Thats 59% of the class going to 7 of the 'non-southern' states. Comparable numbers from Michigan would be helpful, so someone do those lol.

[awesomepossum]

Alaska
7

Arizona
6

California
54

Colorado
5

Connecticut
1

Florida
2

Georgia
7

Illinois
56

Indiana
3

Iowa
1

Maine
2

Massachusetts
8

Michigan
38

Minnesota
7

Missouri
1

Nevada
1

New Jersey
1

New York
98

North Carolina
1

Ohio
7

Oregon
1

Pennsylvania
6

Puerto Rico
1

South Carolina
1

Tennessee
2

Texas
10

Vermont
2

Virginia
1

Washington
2

Wisconsin
1

Wyoming
1

Washington, D.C.


32

Foreign Countries

China
2

Israel
1

Malawi
1

Sierra Leone
1
South Korea 1 United Kingdom 1

[Jericwithers]

Very long list. Anyone mind doing some analysis (percentages by state/region)?

EDIT: Quick finger counting reveals Michigan places 71.5% in those same 7 states.

[doinmybest]

Smaller class size ITE ftw!

even though duke is smaller, michigan still trumps it in every conceivable category.

Wrong. I can conceive of the category "more south." "Shorter name." "Better basketball team." "Longer name of basketball coach of said basketball team."

/thread.

[scionb4]

in basketball? Certainly Duke, that just wouldn't be fair.

[los blancos]

Smaller class size ITE ftw!

even though duke is smaller, michigan still trumps it in every conceivable category.

want to elaborate?