Anyone else moving down a notch?

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jackster2
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby jackster2 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:25 am

Why has everyone become so status obsessed? Do you really think your self worth/contribution to society can be measured by the rankings of your credentials?
What you do with your life has very little to do with US news,but this thought process has infected society including the schools themselves. No wonder so many people are on psychotropic meds.

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ToadGoDead
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby ToadGoDead » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:42 am

jackster2 wrote:Why has everyone become so status obsessed? Do you really think your self worth/contribution to society can be measured by the rankings of your credentials?
What you do with your life has very little to do with US news,but this thought process has infected society including the schools themselves. No wonder so many people are on psychotropic meds.


how does status obsession lead to psychotropic medication use ?

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Core
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby Core » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:18 am

Way, way, way, way, way, way up.

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booboo
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby booboo » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:22 am

I love to look at lists of undergraduate institutions represented for law schools...

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MC Southstar
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby MC Southstar » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:29 am

booboo wrote:I love to look at lists of undergraduate institutions represented for law schools...


I don't. I've never seen my UG represented anywhere.

WhyBother?
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby WhyBother? » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:33 am

MC Southstar wrote:
booboo wrote:I love to look at lists of undergraduate institutions represented for law schools...


I don't. I've never seen my UG represented anywhere.


I've never seen my UG in any of those list, either (although I do know 1 former classmate at Cornell). The average LSAT score at my college was in the 130s. I anticipate attending a T14 in the fall (barring $$$ from a T20). It feels good.

imchuckbass58
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:36 am

Dignan wrote:
DoctorNick189 wrote:As someone soon to hold a degree from a respected undergraduate institution (one of H/Y/P) who will likely end up at a law school school ranked 15-20, I feel like I am a member of a small minority. Is anyone else in a similar position? Any thoughts on the matter?

This is really common. Hastings, for example, is full of Yale undergrads. T14 law schools are difficult for everyone to get into, even those who went to HYP for undergrad.


I'm not so sure about this.

Check out these stats: http://www.yale.edu/career/students/gra ... wstats.pdf

The median Yale grad who matriculated at law school went to CCN (total matriculants = 231, HYS = 81, CCN = 41, HYS + CCN = 122).

Granted the data also shows that there are a lot of people who applied who did not get in, and a lot of people who got in who did not matriculate (for whatever reasons - not satisfied, found another job, decided they didn't want to go to law school). Still, the data would indicate that the "average" Yale grad in law school is at CCN.

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kp009
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby kp009 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:39 am

Moving down. I wish I knew this is what I wanted to do in HS, then I would be moving up and not already have so much debt. Instead I'm moving down thanks to a lower gpa and $$ concerns.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby MC Southstar » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:50 am

WhyBother? wrote:
MC Southstar wrote:
booboo wrote:I love to look at lists of undergraduate institutions represented for law schools...


I don't. I've never seen my UG represented anywhere.


I've never seen my UG in any of those list, either (although I do know 1 former classmate at Cornell). The average LSAT score at my college was in the 130s. I anticipate attending a T14 in the fall (barring $$$ from a T20). It feels good.


Average score at mine is like mid-high 150s maybe? It's just not a school where anyone aspires to be a lawyer, nor do any of the majors foster any relevant skills.

fortissimo
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby fortissimo » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:00 pm

I lateraled. (Top 15 ugrad, top 10 law school). There are a lot of top 20 undergrad grads at my school.
Last edited by fortissimo on Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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englawyer
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby englawyer » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:00 pm

MC Southstar wrote:
WhyBother? wrote:
MC Southstar wrote:
booboo wrote:I love to look at lists of undergraduate institutions represented for law schools...


I don't. I've never seen my UG represented anywhere.


I've never seen my UG in any of those list, either (although I do know 1 former classmate at Cornell). The average LSAT score at my college was in the 130s. I anticipate attending a T14 in the fall (barring $$$ from a T20). It feels good.


Average score at mine is like mid-high 150s maybe? It's just not a school where anyone aspires to be a lawyer, nor do any of the majors foster any relevant skills.


now i am curious. what kind of school? engineering??

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vandalvideo
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby vandalvideo » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:02 pm

Nope, because I'm movin' on up..to the east side.

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rayiner
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby rayiner » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:26 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:
Dignan wrote:
DoctorNick189 wrote:As someone soon to hold a degree from a respected undergraduate institution (one of H/Y/P) who will likely end up at a law school school ranked 15-20, I feel like I am a member of a small minority. Is anyone else in a similar position? Any thoughts on the matter?

This is really common. Hastings, for example, is full of Yale undergrads. T14 law schools are difficult for everyone to get into, even those who went to HYP for undergrad.


I'm not so sure about this.

Check out these stats: http://www.yale.edu/career/students/gra ... wstats.pdf

The median Yale grad who matriculated at law school went to CCN (total matriculants = 231, HYS = 81, CCN = 41, HYS + CCN = 122).

Granted the data also shows that there are a lot of people who applied who did not get in, and a lot of people who got in who did not matriculate (for whatever reasons - not satisfied, found another job, decided they didn't want to go to law school). Still, the data would indicate that the "average" Yale grad in law school is at CCN.


I'd say more like CCN/MVPB, because those are the groups just above and below the median mark. But yeah, 75% of Yalies matriculate at a T14. OP is clearly a failure at life.

democrattotheend
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby democrattotheend » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:28 pm

For me, it's the opposite. My grades in high school were not so great, and in the end it didn't matter because they were good enough for my first choice school. But it feels weird to be applying to and have at least a shot at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Penn, Georgetown and other schools I wouldn't have had a prayer of getting into for undergrad.

xcountryjunkie
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby xcountryjunkie » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:44 pm

up or getting a 1-yr job and trying again!

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Borhas
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:46 pm

DoctorNick189 wrote:As someone soon to hold a degree from a respected undergraduate institution (one of H/Y/P) who will likely end up at a law school school ranked 15-20, I feel like I am a member of a small minority. Is anyone else in a similar position? Any thoughts on the matter?


your UG had at best a median LSAT score of 165, I'd say the majority of your class is "moving down a notch." Though, I'm not really sure what sort of notch attending "HYP" is; UG doesn't seem like that big of an accomplishment compared to going to a T15-20 LS (or even objectively speaking).

jackster2 wrote:Why has everyone become so status obsessed? Do you really think your self worth/contribution to society can be measured by the rankings of your credentials?
What you do with your life has very little to do with US news,but this thought process has infected society including the schools themselves. No wonder so many people are on psychotropic meds.

people are stupid, especially people who think they aren't

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rayiner
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby rayiner » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:02 pm

Borhas wrote:your UG had at best a median LSAT score of 165, I'd say the majority of your class is "moving down a notch." Though, I'm not really sure what sort of notch attending "HYP" is; UG doesn't seem like that big of an accomplishment compared to going to a T15-20 LS (or even objectively speaking).


As evidenced above, your average applicant from HYPS probably doesn't matriculate at any law school. Personally, I think HYPS UG is a pretty big deal. My brother goes to one and it's ridiculous the sorts of job opportunities they have access to right out of UG.

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danr2040
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby danr2040 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:06 pm

As a former H/Y/P going to a T-10, I'll admit being disappointed that I couldn't get off the wl at H, which is where I would need to be to "stay the same." Them's the breaks though when as in my case, one or two questions on the LSAT is the difference between meeting their 25th/median or not meeting it, or when .01/.02 GPA points keeps you from their median/75th.

The weight given to objective criteria helps make the admissions process more transparent and open to all comers, but it also devalues the less tangible credentials. Having to compete in this system, I'm not going to devalue my accomplishments just because they didn't get me into the best law school.

Took $$$ at the T-10 over CCN though. Noticed after reading many V100 firm bios that a fair number of associates and partners at firms had my UG-LS combo, fwiw as an anecdote.

In general, I think that if you are sincerely interested in any legal career (legal aid, etc.) there is no shame in going anywhere from whatever UG you come from. For those top undergrad students interested only in biglaw money though, probably not a good idea to step outside of the T-14-18 (maybe only T-6 ITE?), your earning power is probably higher outside law. But I think this advice is probably true for one coming from any UG.

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UF Gators
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby UF Gators » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:12 pm

If I move down a notch from my ug I will probably not bother going to law school. Either lateral or up for me :P .

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jlnoa0915
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby jlnoa0915 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:16 pm

Moving on up

sickofthelappprocess
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby sickofthelappprocess » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:19 pm

I wouldn't feel that badly about going to a 15-20 law school. It is still a huge accomplishment and while maybe not top ten school, I don't think it means you are doomed for life. I think this board demonstrates how law schools look for many one dimensional people to make a multi-dimensional class. I think while it might take you longer to get the plum job (if the market doesnt improve), multi-dimensional people do better in the real world.

Plus, since the admissions process is so rankings obsessed... let's be honest, take a 97th percentile score of 170... if there were two applicants one is a 4.0 at a state school and the other 3.6 from a top five ivy.... The state school will get accepted every time over a 3.6 at an ivy. (all other criteria equal)

congrats on your acceptances!

redginseng
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby redginseng » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:38 pm

Getting into T10 LS is much harder than getting into T10 UG. It must be, on average, that most people move down.

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englawyer
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby englawyer » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:43 pm

redginseng wrote:Getting into T10 LS is much harder than getting into T10 UG. It must be, on average, that most people move down.


that depends completely on the person.

T10 ugrad admissions are all about having high socio-economic status: prep/private/elite high school, opportunity to have killer softs (start a nonprofit ftw), parents in the know, playing the game, sat tutoring, etc.

law school really comes down to GPA and LSAT. for someone that is poor, working, or middle class but really smart, I would say T10 law school is easier.

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Borhas
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby Borhas » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:02 pm

englawyer wrote:
redginseng wrote:Getting into T10 LS is much harder than getting into T10 UG. It must be, on average, that most people move down.


that depends completely on the person.

T10 ugrad admissions are all about having high socio-economic status: prep/private/elite high school, opportunity to have killer softs (start a nonprofit ftw), parents in the know, playing the game, sat tutoring, etc.

law school really comes down to GPA and LSAT. for someone that is poor, working, or middle class but really smart, I would say T10 law school is easier.


of course, it's much easier to have a high GPA and LSAT if you are born with a silver spoon up your arse than if not

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englawyer
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Re: Anyone else moving down a notch?

Postby englawyer » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:09 pm

Borhas wrote:
englawyer wrote:
redginseng wrote:Getting into T10 LS is much harder than getting into T10 UG. It must be, on average, that most people move down.


that depends completely on the person.

T10 ugrad admissions are all about having high socio-economic status: prep/private/elite high school, opportunity to have killer softs (start a nonprofit ftw), parents in the know, playing the game, sat tutoring, etc.

law school really comes down to GPA and LSAT. for someone that is poor, working, or middle class but really smart, I would say T10 law school is easier.


of course, it's much easier to have a high GPA and LSAT if you are born with a silver spoon up your arse than if not


that is certainly true, but is more of an indirect effect. perhaps a more monied household will encourage analytical thinking, reading, etc. as a child that will foster LSAT skills. also, a culture of education could encourage the child to get a huge GPA. but undergrad has a direct effect: you purchase that expensive prep hs for your kid that sends 25% to ivy leagues or whatever, your chances go way up.

check out this place for example:
http://www.mxschool.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=106661
top five placements: "Boston College, Brown, Georgetown, Harvard, Tufts "
cost per year: 31000


my point is that someone from a lower strata could hypothetically be an absolute book fiend, love school, and excel at their local TTT state school. if they manage to couple that with a good LSAT they are going to be in a t-10 LS.




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