Money at Wisconsin Forum

[zILch]

Hey--

Does anyone know how money at Wisconsin works? I'm instate and would really love to go there but only if they make it seriously worth it for me. I already have offers at IL and MN that make tuition at those schools equal (actually a bit less) than instate at WI. When I visited they said something about fellowships, but I can't find any non-diversity fellowship information...

Anyone with experience/knowledge who can help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

[Vincent Vega]

If I were to choose a school to go to purely out of love of a school, I'd choose Wisconsin in a heartbeat. However, I didn't even apply to UW because they don't give out fee waivers and are incredibly stingy with both scholarships and obtaining residency. It's a shame, too, because they'd like to have my numbers.

UW, why do you do this to us?!

[ToTransferOrNot]

If I were to choose a school to go to purely out of love of a school, I'd choose Wisconsin in a heartbeat. However, I didn't even apply to UW because they don't give out fee waivers and are incredibly stingy with both scholarships and obtaining residency. It's a shame, too, because they'd like to have my numbers.

UW, why do you do this to us?!

It's a state school with incredibly limited funds available for scholarships, and they couldn't care less about having your numbers. They have no designs on moving higher than they are on the LSAT/GPA medians.

[Vincent Vega]

If I were to choose a school to go to purely out of love of a school, I'd choose Wisconsin in a heartbeat. However, I didn't even apply to UW because they don't give out fee waivers and are incredibly stingy with both scholarships and obtaining residency. It's a shame, too, because they'd like to have my numbers.

UW, why do you do this to us?!

It's a state school with incredibly limited funds available for scholarships, and they couldn't care less about having your numbers. They have no designs on moving higher than they are on the LSAT/GPA medians.

I disagree. It might not be number one on their priority list, but schools always want to improve their student bodies. I'm not saying they should recruit me like I'm John Wall or anything, I'm just saying I'm just above their 75ths and I would be an attractive candidate for their class, but I would need scholarship money to go there.

[ToTransferOrNot]

You disagree? I'm sorry, how many chats about Wisconsin's rank have you had with Mike Hall or the deans? How many classes have you taken at Wisconsin Law? How many "the direction of the law school" type talks have you heard? How many Wisconsin Law profs do you have on a first-name basis?

God, I love when 0Ls act like actually know what they're talking about with stuff like this.

Edit to add: Obviously, you know better than others whether you need money to go there. I know better than you that they don't have any money to spend on someone who is "just above their 75th."

Edit to further add: The difference in actual quality between a student "just above the 75th" and a person at, say, the 10th, is exactly = piss in the wind.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

Illinois recruits; Wisconsin doesn't. At least not to any noticable degree. Whether Illinois actually gets any benefit out of that other than the adminstration's ego is a fair question, but that's the approach.

[Vincent Vega]

You disagree? I'm sorry, how many chats about Wisconsin's rank have you had with Mike Hall or the deans? How many classes have you taken at Wisconsin Law? How many "the direction of the law school" type talks have you heard? How many Wisconsin Law profs do you have on a first-name basis?

God, I love when 0Ls act like actually know what they're talking about with stuff like this.

Edit to add: Obviously, you know better than others whether you need money to go there. I know better than you that they don't have any money to spend on someone who is "just above their 75th."

Edit to further add: The difference in actual quality between a student "just above the 75th" and a person at, say, the 10th, is exactly = piss in the wind.

Despite your egotistical rant, I'm not claiming that I have any inside knowledge of their admissions process. Also, I didn't claim that they had money to throw around or that they should give out more scholarships. I understand that the last sentence in my first post sounded a little arrogant, but I don't think that's a just reason to jump all over me like that.

All I said was that all schools are interested in getting the best candidates that they can get. Your post does not dispute that.

I really didn't think that my posts were combative. You may have insight into their processes. I don't. Great. Don't be such an ass.

[BearDownChicago]

You disagree? I'm sorry, how many chats about Wisconsin's rank have you had with Mike Hall or the deans? How many classes have you taken at Wisconsin Law? How many "the direction of the law school" type talks have you heard? How many Wisconsin Law profs do you have on a first-name basis?

God, I love when 0Ls act like actually know what they're talking about with stuff like this.

Edit to add: Obviously, you know better than others whether you need money to go there. I know better than you that they don't have any money to spend on someone who is "just above their 75th."

Edit to further add: The difference in actual quality between a student "just above the 75th" and a person at, say, the 10th, is exactly = piss in the wind.

Despite your egotistical rant, I'm not claiming that I have any inside knowledge of their admissions process. Also, I didn't claim that they had money to throw around or that they should give out more scholarships. I understand that the last sentence in my first post sounded a little arrogant, but I don't think that's a just reason to jump all over me like that.

All I said was that all schools are interested in getting the best candidates that they can get. Your post does not dispute that.

I really didn't think that my posts were combative. You may have insight into their processes. I don't. Great. Don't be such an ass.

Stop. Stop. Stop.

Can someone please answer the OP's question? I too am interested (along with other users I assume) in money at Wisconsin and not who knows what about the school's philosophy and direction.

Anyone on here with money at UW? Anyone here know people at UW with money?

[ToTransferOrNot]

I appologize, my snarkiness here wasn't warranted at all.

The general idea stands, though. Don't expect to get money from UW--they simply don't have much to give. The money that they do have tends to be directed to URM students, and out-of-state students. I don't know a single person who was eligible for in-state tuition who got money.

That said, there are lots of university jobs you can look in to that will do tuition remission + stipend, though there are very few of those in the law school itself.

Obviously, there isn't anything the law school can do about it the near impossibility of obtaining residency status for 2L/3L. That is a University/State Legislature issue.

[zILch]

I appologize, my snarkiness here wasn't warranted at all.

The general idea stands, though. Don't expect to get money from UW--they simply don't have much to give. The money that they do have tends to be directed to URM students, and out-of-state students. I don't know a single person who was eligible for in-state tuition who got money.

That said, there are lots of university jobs you can look in to that will do tuition remission + stipend, though there are very few of those in the law school itself.

Obviously, there isn't anything the law school can do about it the near impossibility of obtaining residency status for 2L/3L. That is a University/State Legislature issue.

Thanks for the info! Is there a database of these jobs?

[ToTransferOrNot]

Not that I'm aware of, though I never applied for any of them. I know one person who got a TA gig in the school of public policy, another person who got a TA gig in the business school (I believe,) there are the standard LRW TA gigs, etc. I imagine that these are things that open up on an as-needed basis.

[Simpler Times]

I appologize, my snarkiness here wasn't warranted at all.

The general idea stands, though. Don't expect to get money from UW--they simply don't have much to give. The money that they do have tends to be directed to URM students, and out-of-state students. I don't know a single person who was eligible for in-state tuition who got money.

That said, there are lots of university jobs you can look in to that will do tuition remission + stipend, though there are very few of those in the law school itself.

Obviously, there isn't anything the law school can do about it the near impossibility of obtaining residency status for 2L/3L. That is a University/State Legislature issue.

I got a minor scholarship with instate tuition, but I had a VERY high LSAT for the school, a full scholarship offer from MN on the table, and Legacy going for me.

As you pointed out, the UW gives out very few merit scholarships instead counting on the fact that it is by far and away the best school available for many in its LSAT/UGPA range.

Of course, in this economy the correct course of action is "find something else to do for 2-3 years because the 1L/2L job market is laughably abysmal" but I didn't listen to that advice and there's no way the OP will either. With that in mind OP, Wisconsin is a lot of fun, join me here in misery.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Yeah this thread is a bit disheartening. I would totally go a non-traditional route and accept a WI seat (maybe - I haven't thought too deeply about it yet) if they offered a nice scholly. I'm still hoping for something, but seeing the $6k from the person above me is sad. Does anybody know if they ever give out full rides to in-state residents?

[ToTransferOrNot]

Yeah this thread is a bit disheartening. I would totally go a non-traditional route and accept a WI seat (maybe - I haven't thought too deeply about it yet) if they offered a nice scholly. I'm still hoping for something, but seeing the $6k from the person above me is sad. Does anybody know if they ever give out full rides to in-state residents?

Never heard of them doing it. I think you would probably need high enough numbers that going to Wisconsin would be a foolish decision regardless of the money they were offering. The fact that the above poster was offered a full ride at MN and only $6k at Wisconsin should probably give an indication.

[Simpler Times]

Yeah this thread is a bit disheartening. I would totally go a non-traditional route and accept a WI seat (maybe - I haven't thought too deeply about it yet) if they offered a nice scholly. I'm still hoping for something, but seeing the $6k from the person above me is sad. Does anybody know if they ever give out full rides to in-state residents?

Before you discard Wisconsin you have to consider that it is one of the most underrated schools out there. I asked several hiring partners, including one in DC whether I should go to Wisconsin or Minnesota all things being equal and every one of them said to go to Wisconsin.

It wasn't worth dropping the full ride, but Wisconsin punches well above its weight for a bargain bin price and you should take that into account. If you are in at UT/UCLA/Vanderbilt or higher, by all means go, but anything lower than that is incredibly comparable to Wisconsin.

That said, seriously, go join the peace corps for a couple years. The Job Market Is Dead. You Will Not Be The Exception.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Yeah this thread is a bit disheartening. I would totally go a non-traditional route and accept a WI seat (maybe - I haven't thought too deeply about it yet) if they offered a nice scholly. I'm still hoping for something, but seeing the $6k from the person above me is sad. Does anybody know if they ever give out full rides to in-state residents?

Never heard of them doing it. I think you would probably need high enough numbers that going to Wisconsin would be a foolish decision regardless of the money they were offering. The fact that the above poster was offered a full ride at MN and only $6k at Wisconsin should probably give an indication.

Well, I think it would be a foolish decision for anyone besides me. I would enjoy staying in the state of WI for a long time, and I have many reasons to go to the school. But I think the oportunity cost would be far too great to go there unless I had a nice scholly. My numbers are quite a bit higher than the $6k scholly, but I don't think it will matter. So this thread is teh bummerz.

[JollyGreenGiant]

Yeah this thread is a bit disheartening. I would totally go a non-traditional route and accept a WI seat (maybe - I haven't thought too deeply about it yet) if they offered a nice scholly. I'm still hoping for something, but seeing the $6k from the person above me is sad. Does anybody know if they ever give out full rides to in-state residents?

Before you discard Wisconsin you have to consider that it is one of the most underrated schools out there. I asked several hiring partners, including one in DC whether I should go to Wisconsin or Minnesota all things being equal and every one of them said to go to Wisconsin.

It wasn't worth dropping the full ride, but Wisconsin punches well above its weight for a bargain bin price and you should take that into account. If you are in at UT/UCLA/Vanderbilt or higher, by all means go, but anything lower than that is incredibly comparable to Wisconsin.

That said, seriously, go join the peace corps for a couple years. The Job Market Is Dead. You Will Not Be The Exception.

I completely agree with the comment about it being underrated. It's true. Especially with in-state tuition. Of course, I'm slightly biased.

[ToTransferOrNot]

Yeah this thread is a bit disheartening. I would totally go a non-traditional route and accept a WI seat (maybe - I haven't thought too deeply about it yet) if they offered a nice scholly. I'm still hoping for something, but seeing the $6k from the person above me is sad. Does anybody know if they ever give out full rides to in-state residents?

Never heard of them doing it. I think you would probably need high enough numbers that going to Wisconsin would be a foolish decision regardless of the money they were offering. The fact that the above poster was offered a full ride at MN and only $6k at Wisconsin should probably give an indication.

Well, I think it would be a foolish decision for anyone besides me. I would enjoy staying in the state of WI for a long time, and I have many reasons to go to the school. But I think the oportunity cost would be far too great to go there unless I had a nice scholly. My numbers are quite a bit higher than the $6k scholly, but I don't think it will matter. So this thread is teh bummerz.

Jolly, for what it's worth, I grew up in Wisconsin, wouldn't have minded staying in Wisconsin for the rest of my life, etc. If Wisconsin was the right school for anyone, it would have been the right school for me. People in my (your) situation MIGHT be able to justify going to Wisconsin + instate + $6k over MN + full ride, but it certainly wouldn't be a wise financial decision.

Fact is that, honestly, to get much more than that $6k at Wisconsin, you probably have T14 acceptances--perhaps even at NU, Michigan, or Chicago. At that point, the decision is almost impossible to justify.

[Vincent Vega]

Why is it that UW is in such poor financial standing compared to peer schools? Iowa and Indiana give out scholarships like they're candy, and most of the other Big Ten schools are pretty liberal with scholarships, too. Is it that UW spends more on faculty, or on facilities, or do they not have as much of a wealthy alumni base? Is it that scholarships just aren't a priority to them?

[JollyGreenGiant]

Yeah this thread is a bit disheartening. I would totally go a non-traditional route and accept a WI seat (maybe - I haven't thought too deeply about it yet) if they offered a nice scholly. I'm still hoping for something, but seeing the $6k from the person above me is sad. Does anybody know if they ever give out full rides to in-state residents?

Never heard of them doing it. I think you would probably need high enough numbers that going to Wisconsin would be a foolish decision regardless of the money they were offering. The fact that the above poster was offered a full ride at MN and only $6k at Wisconsin should probably give an indication.

Well, I think it would be a foolish decision for anyone besides me. I would enjoy staying in the state of WI for a long time, and I have many reasons to go to the school. But I think the oportunity cost would be far too great to go there unless I had a nice scholly. My numbers are quite a bit higher than the $6k scholly, but I don't think it will matter. So this thread is teh bummerz.

Jolly, for what it's worth, I grew up in Wisconsin, wouldn't have minded staying in Wisconsin for the rest of my life, etc. If Wisconsin was the right school for anyone, it would have been the right school for me. People in my (your) situation MIGHT be able to justify going to Wisconsin + instate + $6k over MN + full ride, but it certainly wouldn't be a wise financial decision.

Fact is that, honestly, to get much more than that $6k at Wisconsin, you probably have T14 acceptances--perhaps even at NU, Michigan, or Chicago. At that point, the decision is almost impossible to justify.

But that's assuming that WI w/ full ride is not as good as sticker at NU.

I'd personally take the full ride at WI. It gets trickier when you get to Michigan and up.

[Simpler Times]

Why is it that UW is in such poor financial standing compared to peer schools? Iowa and Indiana give out scholarships like they're candy, and most of the other Big Ten schools are pretty liberal with scholarships, too. Is it that UW spends more on faculty, or on facilities, or do they not have as much of a wealthy alumni base? Is it that scholarships just aren't a priority to them?

A lot of it is state politics. Wisconsin republicans do everything they can hamstring the 'liberals down thar in Madison.' We even had a state assemblyman propose cutting ALL funding for UW Law. Additionally, your scholarship is already figured into your tuition. Instate in Wisconsin is significantly lower than in almost all peer schools.

Jolly - If you can go t14, go t14. I didn't study for the LSAT and I'm constantly kicking myself for not applying earlier/better and going to GULC or Cornell or something. That said, I'm in much the same boat you are (my love for Madison made me irrational) and I want you to know, that I would have gone to Northwestern at sticker in a second.

Remember, there's always IBR, and in this economy I'd go for the biggest job market I could.

[ToTransferOrNot]

But that's assuming that WI w/ full ride is not as good as sticker at NU.
I'd personally take the full ride at WI. It gets trickier when you get to Michigan and up.

That would be a really poor decision. Most of the faculty at Wisconsin would agree.

[JollyGreenGiant]

But that's assuming that WI w/ full ride is not as good as sticker at NU.
I'd personally take the full ride at WI. It gets trickier when you get to Michigan and up.

That would be a really poor decision. Most of the faculty at Wisconsin would agree.

Good thing I didn't apply to Northwestern.

But having limited to no debt versus going $200k in debt is never a "poor decision"

[JollyGreenGiant]

Why is it that UW is in such poor financial standing compared to peer schools? Iowa and Indiana give out scholarships like they're candy, and most of the other Big Ten schools are pretty liberal with scholarships, too. Is it that UW spends more on faculty, or on facilities, or do they not have as much of a wealthy alumni base? Is it that scholarships just aren't a priority to them?

A lot of it is state politics. Wisconsin republicans do everything they can hamstring the 'liberals down thar in Madison.' We even had a state assemblyman propose cutting ALL funding for UW Law. Additionally, your scholarship is already figured into your tuition. Instate in Wisconsin is significantly lower than in almost all peer schools.

Jolly - If you can go t14, go t14. I didn't study for the LSAT and I'm constantly kicking myself for not applying earlier/better and going to GULC or Cornell or something. That said, I'm in much the same boat you are (my love for Madison made me irrational) and I want you to know, that I would have gone to Northwestern at sticker in a second.

Remember, there's always IBR, and in this economy I'd go for the biggest job market I could.

I disagree with this. I'd almost certainly go to Wisconsin on a full ride over GULC sticker. Especially since I'd like to stay in the Midwest.


I'm not trying to argue, but I think choosing a school in the 11-14 range at sticker over a school giving a full ride within the 20-40 range is silly.

[ToTransferOrNot]

It's really telling that the faculty at Wisconsin would say you're nuts to go to Wisconsin with a full ride over northwestern at sticker, but whatever floats your boat. I agree with you as far as GULC/Cornell/Duke etc go, because they don' have the cachet in the Midwest, but Northwestern should be a gimmie. Both Northwestern and Michigan do about as well as UoC in Chicago. (See, for example, Mayer Brown's summer class this year: 4 Northwestern, 3 UoC, 3 Michigan, 1 Harvard. How many Wisconsin? 0--and my first callback partner was a freaking Wisconsin grad. How many Wisconsin-market paying SA gigs this year total, all Wisconsin firms included? Probably under 40, and even 40 might be too generous.

No offense, but it's clear that you just are missing some information about the job market. The market is not going to get back to where it was in the mid-2000s any time soon--if it ever does. Wisconsin was ALWAYS a "top 25% even for Wisconsin 'biglaw'" school.

Edit: After taking a quick look at NALP, it is clear that the guess of 40 Wisconsin Biglaw SA slots was way, way too high. Foley-Milwaukee only took 18 SAs *last year*--if they took 10 this year, I would be surprised. WHD only took 4, Q&B has no summer program, etc. The number might be closer to 20 for this year, might get back to 30 next year, 40 the year after that.

Edit before you say you aren't looking for biglaw: I know a huge number of unemployed Wisconsin grads, and trust me, they weren't turning down anything. Many of them haven't even been able to find volunteer work.