scionb4 wrote:Yes, I am obviously referring to biological predispositions. Certain counter-cultures (namely the "emo" counter-culture) would like to do away with tendencies found in males in females. That is a personal choice, and I say they have every right to do that, I just personally think that is silly.
While you and I certainly seem to disagree on a lot of issues, I would like to say that you have read me wrong based on your calling me "bro." You probably have a view of me as being a business management frat president type that does yager bombs and utters the phrase "dude-bro" on a regular basis. I am, however, nothing like this at all. While I am in a fraternity, I do not like it at all as I don't drink very often and find the pseudo-macho postering to be reflective of their insecurity. I am a theatre major, and have had a lead roles in a number of different plays. Currently I am cast as Malvolio in Twlfth Night. I also am in the Dance Ensemble, I take a yoga class, and I love reading classical literature, primarily drama of course. Why am I telling you this? Because I don't want you to think of me as something that I am not merely because I have somewhat traditional views. I admit that those views can be a bit narrow minded, but I am entitled to my opinions just as you are entitled to yours. You and I obviously choose to lead very different lives. Great for us, whatever floats our respective boats, right? I apoligize for referring to you as an "idiot," earlier in this thread, that was uncalled for. Basically, what I am trying to say is that you and could continue this debate forever, and neither one is going to persuade the other. I certainly see the validity in your arguments - gender is far more ambiguous than mainstream society throughout the centuries has acknowledged. You are right there. Having ackowledged that, I hope you and I can just agree to disagree on the arguments we have made and move on. I have nothing against you personally, and I wholly accept your lifestyle choices even though I would never engage in them myself.
Scion, the addition of bro to an early post was not an attempt to out you as a member of any particular and despised lifestyle, but simply a terribly humorous addition meant to make the post ironically more relevant to the original thread topic. All I know about you is that apparently accidentally joined one of those gay-for-pay "frat" websites instead of an actual frat, know your mother's preferences in men and women's appearances, dislike asymmetrical haircuts and female body builders, and now that you are a thesbian.
The point of my posts is not to attack you, but to counter the ridiculous statements being bandied about on these threads about what counts as a "real" man/woman. We may not agree on our arguments, but I hope that I have shown that "traditional" accounts of gender are supported by little else but tradition, and pretty recent traditions at that.
You seem to be really bothered by "emo's." As someone who grew up when "emo" was just being established (that is, the mid-early 1990s, with bands like Sunny Day Real Estate, etc) and to which current youth trends now called emo are only loosely related, I would assure you that emo kids aren't the hermaphroditic, gender bending, pinko crazy crazy counterculture you might expect. They, like pretty much everyone, are pretty banal.