Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

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Vandy (sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/yr scholly)

Vanderbilt (sticker)
39
60%
Notre Dame ($15k/year scholarship)
26
40%
 
Total votes: 65

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ArtVandelay
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Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby ArtVandelay » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:31 pm

For east coast biglaw. Let me know why you would choose one over the other. Thanks!

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fulkersonr1
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby fulkersonr1 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:49 am

ArtVandelay wrote:For east coast biglaw. Let me know why you would choose one over the other. Thanks!



I'm biased because I am going to be attending ND, but ND does have an amazing alumni network. While the school places better in Midwest also have a lot of alumni in the east.

jockinjay-z
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby jockinjay-z » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:54 am

Hey I'll be making a similar decision myself pretty soon, ND gave me 12k but haven't about any $$$ from Vandy yet?!

jockinjay-z
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby jockinjay-z » Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:56 am

Btw which does school do you guys feel has the best DC placement?? I wanna practice international law and I think DC would be the best place for that??

galahad85
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby galahad85 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:34 am

Prior to the recession, Vandy placed 40-45% in biglaw. Notre Dame placed 25-30% in biglaw. Though numbers for both are surely much lower now, I'm willing to bet that Vandy is still the stronger of the two.

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najumobi
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby najumobi » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:38 am

galahad85 wrote:Prior to the recession, Vandy placed 40-45% in biglaw. Notre Dame placed 25-30% in biglaw. Though numbers for both are surely much lower now, I'm willing to bet that Vandy is still the stronger of the two.
of course vandy is stronger...the question is is this strength worth the difference of 45k.

redginseng
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby redginseng » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:42 am

yes

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najumobi
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby najumobi » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:44 am

jockinjay-z wrote:Btw which does school do you guys feel has the best DC placement?? I wanna practice international law and I think DC would be the best place for that??
i think it would be marginally easier to get a job in dc from vandy than from notre dame, but still very difficult. also i don't think international law is something that can be practiced.

galahad85
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby galahad85 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:46 am

najumobi wrote:
galahad85 wrote:Prior to the recession, Vandy placed 40-45% in biglaw. Notre Dame placed 25-30% in biglaw. Though numbers for both are surely much lower now, I'm willing to bet that Vandy is still the stronger of the two.
of course vandy is stronger...the question is is this strength worth the difference of 45k.


True. Although I don't think the OP should be so quick to assume that he won't be getting anything from Vanderbilt. To my knowledge, they haven't even starting giving out scholarships yet.

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najumobi
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby najumobi » Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:47 am

galahad85 wrote:
najumobi wrote:
galahad85 wrote:Prior to the recession, Vandy placed 40-45% in biglaw. Notre Dame placed 25-30% in biglaw. Though numbers for both are surely much lower now, I'm willing to bet that Vandy is still the stronger of the two.
of course vandy is stronger...the question is is this strength worth the difference of 45k.


True. Although I don't think the OP should be so quick to assume that he won't be getting anything from Vanderbilt. To my knowledge, they haven't even starting giving out scholarships yet.
good point.

jockinjay-z
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby jockinjay-z » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:01 am

Also do you guys think its possible for WUSTL to catch up with Vandy in its Big law placement in the near future?? They're the other school that I'm seriously considering in addition to ND and Vandy! I hear WUSTL was getting better with its DC placement but I wonder now how much its taken a hit due to the economy and all??

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ruleser
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby ruleser » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:06 am

$45K is not much in the overall scheme of things - as in, the rest of your life. If you make 10K more a year, if 5 years you're good. I'd go with whichever one you like the most/would want to be an alum of, etc. - Notre Dame is well known most places, and if you are catholic double that connection, but Vandy I think is seen as a little more elite. I personally would do Vandy, considered more of a top school, somewhat better odds at top placement, loved the person I interviewed with - just feel it's a bigger dog, which is most important in the long run. I would do Vandy even if ND was free.

galahad85
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby galahad85 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:13 am

jockinjay-z wrote:Also do you guys think its possible for WUSTL to catch up with Vandy in its Big law placement in the near future?? They're the other school that I'm seriously considering in addition to ND and Vandy! I hear WUSTL was getting better with its DC placement but I wonder now how much its taken a hit due to the economy and all??


I doubt it will catch up anytime soon. Its pre-recession biglaw placement was actually slightly lower than Notre Dame's, so it has a way to go.

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nyyankees
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby nyyankees » Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:19 am

najumobi wrote:
galahad85 wrote:
najumobi wrote:
galahad85 wrote:Prior to the recession, Vandy placed 40-45% in biglaw. Notre Dame placed 25-30% in biglaw. Though numbers for both are surely much lower now, I'm willing to bet that Vandy is still the stronger of the two.
of course vandy is stronger...the question is is this strength worth the difference of 45k.


True. Although I don't think the OP should be so quick to assume that he won't be getting anything from Vanderbilt. To my knowledge, they haven't even starting giving out scholarships yet.
good point.


I think we are supposed to work under that assumption for now. If you do get money from Vandy, I would suggest using it as leverage to see if ND will beef up their offer

I would take ND over Vandy there are a TON of ND alums in NYC. Im a big ND fan and whenever I go out to bars on game days theres always a handful of people in ND Law sweatshirts. Obviously this is completely anecdotal and just because vandy lawyers dont go around parading where they went to school doesnt mean they dont exist. But I do believe that ND lawyers try a bit harder to recruit kids from their school than most (lets call it Catholic guilt)

To be honest, theres no doubt in my mind that vandy is a better school, but im (subjectively) of the mentality that ND will do just as well if not better if you want it. I guess im the opposite of rulesler, Id prob do ND over vandy if both were at sticker

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UFMatt
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby UFMatt » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:09 pm

This is a tough call. If you want to practice in the southeast/mid-Atlantic, then definitely Vanderbilt. If west coast or northeast, I'd probably change my answer to ND unless Vanderbilt throws some $ your way.

jockinjay-z
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby jockinjay-z » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:17 pm

najumobi wrote:
jockinjay-z wrote:Btw which does school do you guys feel has the best DC placement?? I wanna practice international law and I think DC would be the best place for that??
i think it would be marginally easier to get a job in dc from vandy than from notre dame, but still very difficult. also i don't think international law is something that can be practiced.



Why do you say that?? I would think international law would be a growing field due to all the globalization/new laws thats taking place currrently in the world.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:26 pm

Vandy going away ITE. It's tough to gauge what information is accurate, but according to (supposed) current students of each school on here ND was absolutely slaughtered at OCI. Supposedly, Vandy took their lumps like everyone else but still didn't place too far off from MVPBDCNG. I don't know if they would tell you, but it might be worth a call to the career service center for both schools and see if they'll give you an estimate of the number of students with offers from this past OCI.

starstruck393
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby starstruck393 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:35 pm

jockinjay-z wrote:
najumobi wrote:
jockinjay-z wrote:Btw which does school do you guys feel has the best DC placement?? I wanna practice international law and I think DC would be the best place for that??
i think it would be marginally easier to get a job in dc from vandy than from notre dame, but still very difficult. also i don't think international law is something that can be practiced.



Why do you say that?? I would think international law would be a growing field due to all the globalization/new laws thats taking place currrently in the world.


There are very few, extremely hard to get jobs in international law. For the most part, if you want to deal with another country, you get a local counsel there.

Oh, and Vandy ftw

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underachiever
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby underachiever » Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:39 pm

Vandy
its 45k more a yr....but ND's 2Ls have had NO luck getting jobs, the Vandy kids seem to be doing much better and 45k is worth it for the increased job prospects

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observationalist
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby observationalist » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:30 am

nyyankees wrote:
najumobi wrote:
galahad85 wrote:
galahad85 wrote:Prior to the recession, Vandy placed 40-45% in biglaw. Notre Dame placed 25-30% in biglaw. Though numbers for both are surely much lower now, I'm willing to bet that Vandy is still the stronger of the two.
of course vandy is stronger...the question is is this strength worth the difference of 45k.


I think we are supposed to work under that assumption for now. If you do get money from Vandy, I would suggest using it as leverage to see if ND will beef up their offer

I would take ND over Vandy there are a TON of ND alums in NYC. Im a big ND fan and whenever I go out to bars on game days theres always a handful of people in ND Law sweatshirts. Obviously this is completely anecdotal and just because vandy lawyers dont go around parading where they went to school doesnt mean they dont exist. But I do believe that ND lawyers try a bit harder to recruit kids from their school than most (lets call it Catholic guilt)

To be honest, theres no doubt in my mind that vandy is a better school, but im (subjectively) of the mentality that ND will do just as well if not better if you want it. I guess im the opposite of rulesler, Id prob do ND over vandy if both were at sticker



Galahad's mention of Vandy's biglaw (NLJ250) placement pre-ITE is a somewhat outdated... the 40-45% of the class was before the school had reduced class size back down from around 220 to 190. For the Class of 2009, slightly more graduates got NLJ250 than in 2008 but the total class size dropped by over 30 students. So at least pre-ITE, Vandy was placing more than half the class in NLJ250 firms. We actually were doing better than GULC, and now that the market has tanked, large schools like theirs are taking an even worse beating than us. I can't speak to ND but the last statistic I got from Dean Guthrie had 50% of the 2L class with summer jobs lined up as of last November. It's highly unlikely that 100% of that constitutes biglaw, but a conservative estimate would suggest they're aiming to have around the top third or so in NLJ250 firms. If that turns out to be accurate, this means that Vandy post-ITE is placing the same as ND pre-ITE. Clerkship numbers also haven't dropped as much from last year as we were expecting, which is great to know considering how much more competitive that whole mess has gotten.

We'll know more once the law school publishes the Recruitment Handbook in the early summer, but for anyone with an acceptance in hand I strongly encourage you to try and leverage it to get more accurate information now. Career Services keep track of all of us. They should be able to give you a head count of how many students are job secure for the coming summer. Just be nice about asking them, since they're fairly busy with their normal business and they could end up being your advisors for the rest of your legal career.

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observationalist
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby observationalist » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:42 am

najumobi wrote:
jockinjay-z wrote:Btw which does school do you guys feel has the best DC placement?? I wanna practice international law and I think DC would be the best place for that??
i think it would be marginally easier to get a job in dc from vandy than from notre dame, but still very difficult. also i don't think international law is something that can be practiced.


One of the DC firms who traditionally does multiple Vandy hires has a stated 3.4 cutoff for our school, and this year the lowest gpa I know of who got them is a 3.5. Under the 1L curve, a 3.5 is pretty much the cutoff for top 20%. So I'd say you don't stand a great shot at biglaw in DC right now without landing in the top 20%, unless you have some pull. DC- Government isn't nearly as rigorous and neither is public interest, but I don't have any specific gpas to offer up on this one. You're also probably not likely to get gpas from the school due to privacy concerns... the best I'm thinking they can provide you is a list of where people are hired as of now, or perhaps a list of how many firms hired from OCI. Point is, they have information and it's not really fair for me to speculate as much as I have been until we see some better info... back to writing this seminar paper on improving transparency in employment reporting.

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observationalist
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby observationalist » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:50 am

Oh also, despite the fact that I'm in on a Friday night Vandy is an enormously fun place to be. We raised close to 8K last Saturday at an inter-grad school fundraiser for the Clinton-Bush fund, Jack White made a surprise appearance last night for anyone in the know who went to The Basement, a bunch of people went to a free concert at Sommet earlier in the week for a new Gwyneth Paltrow movie where she plays some rising country star, and tomorrow people have the option of going to a rave party hosted by a bunch of 2Ls or crashing the Tea Party Convention and picking up some ridiculous gear out at Opryland. So far nothing has swayed me from finishing up this seminar paper, but the Tea Party crashing idea may be too good to resist.

Also, I agree about trying to negotiate scholarships whenever possible. Can't hurt to try, and every school is painfully aware right now that what they're charging doesn't match up with what we can expect to earn back in the market right now. That goes for T10 schools as well, not just us lowly non-T14s.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:56 am

I've read from a few people that OCI was a bloodbath at ND this year. It's one of the reasons I recommend people choose a higher-ranked school if they have the option now. ITE you want to maximize your odds of getting a job as much as possible, and you do that by going to a higher-ranked school if it makes any sense at all to do so.

In this case it does. $45k is not a huge difference when you're borrowing more than $100k total either way. Either you're going to find a high-paying firm job in which case you'll get it paid down in a couple years either way, or you're going to get a lower-paying PI job and do IBR to manage the debt, so it won't matter how much debt you have in that sense either. For new grads those are pretty much the only two options. Either way Vandy is better.

timertimer61
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby timertimer61 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:57 am

vandy for sure. places much better and better prestige.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Vandy (Sticker) vs. Notre Dame ($15k/year scholly)

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:05 am

observationalist wrote:Oh also, despite the fact that I'm in on a Friday night Vandy is an enormously fun place to be. We raised close to 8K last Saturday at an inter-grad school fundraiser for the Clinton-Bush fund, Jack White made a surprise appearance last night for anyone in the know who went to The Basement, a bunch of people went to a free concert at Sommet earlier in the week for a new Gwyneth Paltrow movie where she plays some rising country star, and tomorrow people have the option of going to a rave party hosted by a bunch of 2Ls or crashing the Tea Party Convention and picking up some ridiculous gear out at Opryland. So far nothing has swayed me from finishing up this seminar paper, but the Tea Party crashing idea may be too good to resist.

Also, I agree about trying to negotiate scholarships whenever possible. Can't hurt to try, and every school is painfully aware right now that what they're charging doesn't match up with what we can expect to earn back in the market right now. That goes for T10 schools as well, not just us lowly non-T14s.


Obs, you make me wish I went to Vandy, and you know how I feel about my own beloved home. Go crash the Tea Party. :mrgreen: <3




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