Getting in vs Succeeding

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
Education1st
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby Education1st » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:56 pm

Everyone seems to apply to the very best school that they can gain admission, but I'm more interested in being successful at the school I attend. It seems that going to a "lower ranked" school has more advantages than going to a "higher ranked" school. First, you'll probably receive more scholly money. Second, you'll probably be more competitive (law reviews, in class, etc). Finally, you'll probably graduate higher in your class and get better job offers.

I'm particularly worried as a URM. I'll get accepted into a better school, but my grades will likely be toward the lower end of the grading curve. Unless, there is some validity to the idea that being around brighter, more competitive people raises the performance of everyone. Like, a rising tide of difficulty, raises all ships.

Any thought?

User avatar
nick637
Posts: 246
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:24 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby nick637 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:57 pm

i love your avatar. may i ask what its from?

User avatar
kittenmittons
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:24 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:59 pm

Education1st wrote:Everyone seems to apply to the very best school that they can gain admission, but I'm more interested in being successful at the school I attend. It seems that going to a "lower ranked" school has more advantages than going to a "higher ranked" school. First, you'll probably receive more scholly money. Second, you'll probably be more competitive (law reviews, in class, etc). Finally, you'll probably graduate higher in your class and get better job offers.

I'm particularly worried as a URM. I'll get accepted into a better school, but my grades will likely be toward the lower end of the grading curve. Unless, there is some validity to the idea that being around brighter, more competitive people raises the performance of everyone. Like, a rising tide of difficulty, raises all ships.

Any thought?


Your last two points are wrong. This isn't a safe assumption.

User avatar
Education1st
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby Education1st » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:01 pm

nick637 wrote:i love your avatar. may i ask what its from?



Thanks. I'm not sure. I "borrowed" it from the web...

chitown825
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:45 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby chitown825 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:04 pm

Ahem.

I'm a 1L, and you cannot ever assume your class performance. Everybody will study 24/7, and generally everybody will understand the material equally well. Grades are not something you can predict, and going to a lower ranked school does not make your success a given.

Secondly, being at the top of your class doesn't matter if the employers don't come there in the first place. Imagine getting into UChicago or getting a full ride at John Marshall (also in Chicago, IL). Latham & Watkins will not be visiting JM to hire their top 5% at 170k.

User avatar
gwuorbust
Posts: 2087
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby gwuorbust » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:08 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
Education1st wrote:Everyone seems to apply to the very best school that they can gain admission, but I'm more interested in being successful at the school I attend. It seems that going to a "lower ranked" school has more advantages than going to a "higher ranked" school. First, you'll probably receive more scholly money. Second, you'll probably be more competitive (law reviews, in class, etc). Finally, you'll probably graduate higher in your class and get better job offers.

I'm particularly worried as a URM. I'll get accepted into a better school, but my grades will likely be toward the lower end of the grading curve. Unless, there is some validity to the idea that being around brighter, more competitive people raises the performance of everyone. Like, a rising tide of difficulty, raises all ships.

Any thought?


Your last two points are wrong. This isn't a safe assumption.


while still a 0L, I would think that the people at a lower ranked school would work harder because they know that if you are in the bottom of the class you are SOL. Therefore, going to a lower ranked school could make your life harder.

User avatar
reasonable_man
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:10 pm

kittenmittons wrote:
Education1st wrote:Everyone seems to apply to the very best school that they can gain admission, but I'm more interested in being successful at the school I attend. It seems that going to a "lower ranked" school has more advantages than going to a "higher ranked" school. First, you'll probably receive more scholly money. Second, you'll probably be more competitive (law reviews, in class, etc). Finally, you'll probably graduate higher in your class and get better job offers.

I'm particularly worried as a URM. I'll get accepted into a better school, but my grades will likely be toward the lower end of the grading curve. Unless, there is some validity to the idea that being around brighter, more competitive people raises the performance of everyone. Like, a rising tide of difficulty, raises all ships.

Any thought?


Your last two points are wrong. This isn't a safe assumption.


+1 a lot.

User avatar
Education1st
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby Education1st » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:16 pm

Ok, ok. Everyone seems to think going to the best school possible is the best thing to do. For some reason, I'm having a hard time believing that everyone should be going to Yale.

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:23 pm

I like your ships mentality. Here's the thing: there is a correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school performance, but it's a modest one. Your entering numbers are absolutely not your destiny. I know several formerly waitlisted kids who went on to kick ass at their respective schools. I know of splitters with very low GPAs who are now at the top of their classes. It happens, and it happens often enough that I seriously question schools' current admission evaluation methods. I know they don't have much choice in the matter, and neither do we, but once we are in, anything is possible. I wasn't sure I believed it either until I saw it happening.

EDIT: I was very much inspired by all the people I met in my law school adventure, and if anything, I do credit them for keeping me sane enough to manage all this. They kept me motivated, which is certainly something. That said, there is no way I could have predicted how I would do, and I would not have expected to be at the very top of my class if I'd gone to a T2. Too many variables, and too many smart kids at every school.

User avatar
GATORTIM
Posts: 1214
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:51 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby GATORTIM » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:30 pm

chitown825 wrote: Latham & Watkins will not be visiting JM to hire their top 5% at 170k.


L&W probably won't be doing that at Chicago either...massive adjustments to incoming recruits and deferrals

User avatar
chicoalto0649
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby chicoalto0649 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:34 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:I like your ships mentality. Here's the thing: there is a correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school performance, but it's a modest one. Your entering numbers are absolutely not your destiny. I know several formerly waitlisted kids who went on to kick ass at their respective schools. I know of splitters with very low GPAs who are now at the top of their classes. It happens, and it happens often enough that I seriously question schools' current admission evaluation methods. I know they don't have much choice in the matter, and neither do we, but once we are in, anything is possible. I wasn't sure I believed it either until I saw it happening.

EDIT: I was very much inspired by all the people I met in my law school adventure, and if anything, I do credit them for keeping me sane enough to manage all this. They kept me motivated, which is certainly something. That said, there is no way I could have predicted how I would do, and I would not have expected to be at the very top of my class if I'd gone to a T2. Too many variables, and too many smart kids at every school.



You use the past tense in your last paragraph. Did you drop out of Fordham?

User avatar
Education1st
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby Education1st » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:43 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is a difference in grading between say Chicago U and Hofstra. Doesn't that come down to what the professors expect of their students?

User avatar
reasonable_man
Posts: 2200
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:41 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:06 pm

And its official. This thread is a:

--ImageRemoved--

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:09 pm

chicoalto0649 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I like your ships mentality. Here's the thing: there is a correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school performance, but it's a modest one. Your entering numbers are absolutely not your destiny. I know several formerly waitlisted kids who went on to kick ass at their respective schools. I know of splitters with very low GPAs who are now at the top of their classes. It happens, and it happens often enough that I seriously question schools' current admission evaluation methods. I know they don't have much choice in the matter, and neither do we, but once we are in, anything is possible. I wasn't sure I believed it either until I saw it happening.

EDIT: I was very much inspired by all the people I met in my law school adventure, and if anything, I do credit them for keeping me sane enough to manage all this. They kept me motivated, which is certainly something. That said, there is no way I could have predicted how I would do, and I would not have expected to be at the very top of my class if I'd gone to a T2. Too many variables, and too many smart kids at every school.



You use the past tense in your last paragraph. Did you drop out of Fordham?


LOL, no. I'm just talking about the past semester. I guess I'm worried that I'll let people down going forward. Worried, but hopeful.

User avatar
chicoalto0649
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby chicoalto0649 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:16 pm

OperaSoprano wrote:
chicoalto0649 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I like your ships mentality. Here's the thing: there is a correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school performance, but it's a modest one. Your entering numbers are absolutely not your destiny. I know several formerly waitlisted kids who went on to kick ass at their respective schools. I know of splitters with very low GPAs who are now at the top of their classes. It happens, and it happens often enough that I seriously question schools' current admission evaluation methods. I know they don't have much choice in the matter, and neither do we, but once we are in, anything is possible. I wasn't sure I believed it either until I saw it happening.

EDIT: I was very much inspired by all the people I met in my law school adventure, and if anything, I do credit them for keeping me sane enough to manage all this. They kept me motivated, which is certainly something. That said, there is no way I could have predicted how I would do, and I would not have expected to be at the very top of my class if I'd gone to a T2. Too many variables, and too many smart kids at every school.



You use the past tense in your last paragraph. Did you drop out of Fordham?


LOL, no. I'm just talking about the past semester. I guess I'm worried that I'll let people down going forward. Worried, but hopeful.



If I get in, will you help out at ASW? I can always use a vacay to nyc. Plus my parents live down the steet (e.33rd/murray hill area) so i can party with them afterwards

User avatar
OperaSoprano
Posts: 4410
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:54 am

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby OperaSoprano » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:22 pm

chicoalto0649 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:
chicoalto0649 wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I like your ships mentality. Here's the thing: there is a correlation between LSAT/GPA and law school performance, but it's a modest one. Your entering numbers are absolutely not your destiny. I know several formerly waitlisted kids who went on to kick ass at their respective schools. I know of splitters with very low GPAs who are now at the top of their classes. It happens, and it happens often enough that I seriously question schools' current admission evaluation methods. I know they don't have much choice in the matter, and neither do we, but once we are in, anything is possible. I wasn't sure I believed it either until I saw it happening.

EDIT: I was very much inspired by all the people I met in my law school adventure, and if anything, I do credit them for keeping me sane enough to manage all this. They kept me motivated, which is certainly something. That said, there is no way I could have predicted how I would do, and I would not have expected to be at the very top of my class if I'd gone to a T2. Too many variables, and too many smart kids at every school.



You use the past tense in your last paragraph. Did you drop out of Fordham?


LOL, no. I'm just talking about the past semester. I guess I'm worried that I'll let people down going forward. Worried, but hopeful.



If I get in, will you help out at ASW? I can always use a vacay to nyc. Plus my parents live down the steet (e.33rd/murray hill area) so i can party with them afterwards


Yeah, I have been. Definitely come to one if you are admitted soon enough.

User avatar
chicoalto0649
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby chicoalto0649 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:28 pm


If I get in, will you help out at ASW? I can always use a vacay to nyc. Plus my parents live down the steet (e.33rd/murray hill area) so i can party with them afterwards

Yeah, I have been. Definitely come to one if you are admitted soon enough.


Theres nothing to do in Murray Hill. Good indian on 27 and lexingtomn (curray hill). Banc is a good bar on 30th and 3rd. Also waterfront ale house on 30th and 2nd the best wings in manahattan. Lets see....thats about the only thing i can think of worth a trip down there..

User avatar
calicocat
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:29 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby calicocat » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:36 pm

Education1st wrote:Ok, ok. Everyone seems to think going to the best school possible is the best thing to do. For some reason, I'm having a hard time believing that everyone should be going to Yale.

hahaha laughed at this

Seriously, feel free to turn down Yale for a t20 with money...somehow, I don't believe you're gonna be making that choice.

User avatar
Education1st
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby Education1st » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:40 pm

Oli wrote:
Education1st wrote:Ok, ok. Everyone seems to think going to the best school possible is the best thing to do. For some reason, I'm having a hard time believing that everyone should be going to Yale.

hahaha laughed at this

Seriously, feel free to turn down Yale for a t20 with money...somehow, I don't believe you're gonna be making that choice.


Maybe Yale isn't a great example because they have a 0 attrition rate. Some people fail out of higher ranked schools when they might have done just fine at lower ranked schools. Is this such a foreign concept? That's it. I'm accepting Harvard!

User avatar
calicocat
Posts: 1099
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:29 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby calicocat » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:41 pm

Education1st wrote:
Oli wrote:
Education1st wrote:Ok, ok. Everyone seems to think going to the best school possible is the best thing to do. For some reason, I'm having a hard time believing that everyone should be going to Yale.

hahaha laughed at this

Seriously, feel free to turn down Yale for a t20 with money...somehow, I don't believe you're gonna be making that choice.


Maybe Yale isn't a great example because they have a 0 attrition rate. Some people fail out of higher ranked schools when they might have done just fine at lower ranked schools. Is this such a foreign concept? That's it. I'm accepting Harvard!


.nvm
Last edited by calicocat on Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bostonian
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:08 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby bostonian » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:41 pm

Education1st wrote:
nick637 wrote:i love your avatar. may i ask what its from?



Thanks. I'm not sure. I "borrowed" it from the web...


It looks like it could be from the Casino Royale intro.

User avatar
nyyankees
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:50 am

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby nyyankees » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:43 pm

chicoalto0649 wrote:

If I get in, will you help out at ASW? I can always use a vacay to nyc. Plus my parents live down the steet (e.33rd/murray hill area) so i can party with them afterwards

Yeah, I have been. Definitely come to one if you are admitted soon enough.


Theres nothing to do in Murray Hill. Good indian on 27 and lexingtomn (curray hill). Banc is a good bar on 30th and 3rd. Also waterfront ale house on 30th and 2nd the best wings in manahattan. Lets see....thats about the only thing i can think of worth a trip down there..


Im pretty sure every frat brother in nyc would disagree with you. Joshua tree is....well its certainly not nothing. Same goes for tonic

User avatar
chicoalto0649
Posts: 1172
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:34 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby chicoalto0649 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:45 pm

nyyankees wrote:
chicoalto0649 wrote:

If I get in, will you help out at ASW? I can always use a vacay to nyc. Plus my parents live down the steet (e.33rd/murray hill area) so i can party with them afterwards

Yeah, I have been. Definitely come to one if you are admitted soon enough.


Theres nothing to do in Murray Hill. Good indian on 27 and lexingtomn (curray hill). Banc is a good bar on 30th and 3rd. Also waterfront ale house on 30th and 2nd the best wings in manahattan. Lets see....thats about the only thing i can think of worth a trip down there..


Im pretty sure every frat brother in nyc would disagree with you. Joshua tree is....well its certainly not nothing. Same goes for tonic



Tonic is perhaps the frattiest/docheyist bar in nyc/if not the world. That place blows donkey dick.

O i forgot,

Failte' is a really good irish pub across the street from waterfront ale house.

EDIT: Maybe its not exactly fratty, just not alot of fun. Alot of other places id go before watching a game there.

flowylime
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:39 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby flowylime » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:50 pm

bostonian wrote:
Education1st wrote:
nick637 wrote:i love your avatar. may i ask what its from?



Thanks. I'm not sure. I "borrowed" it from the web...


It looks like it could be from the Casino Royale intro.


also gnarls barkley used a similar love gun in some album art/promos.

User avatar
Education1st
Posts: 26
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 2:50 pm

Re: Getting in vs Succeeding

Postby Education1st » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:55 pm

flowylime wrote:
bostonian wrote:
Education1st wrote:
nick637 wrote:i love your avatar. may i ask what its from?



Thanks. I'm not sure. I "borrowed" it from the web...


It looks like it could be from the Casino Royale intro.


also gnarls barkley used a similar love gun in some album art/promos.


Gnarls Barkley is awesome. But what about the topic at hand? huh?




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], hwwong, Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests