jay115 wrote:jnorsky wrote:jay115 wrote:jnorsky wrote:If we are talking about public institutions, putting berkeley above michigan is not really necessary. They are pretty much in a league of their own and on par with some of the really elite US universities. After them, Texas, UCLA and UNC are up there. I was surprised to find how UVA really isnt a well rounded elite public university. Definitely great undergrad, law, business and med school though.
I guess bc I'm going to UCLA I have an obligation to defend it, so here's my shot: Michigan and UCLA have comparable business and medical schools; Michigan has a better law school whereas UCLA has a stronger undergraduate program. I suppose we could further break it down by specific statistics, but based on rankings, money, and overall university prestige, UCLA is on par with Michigan.
In regards to Berkeley vs Michigan: Berkeley as a stronger undergraduate program, law program, science programs, and is overall stronger than Michigan. In the global university rankings program, Berkeley ranks third (only below stanford and harvard) whereas Michigan ranks 22 (which, i might add, is substantially lower than UCLA and UCSD). Berkeley is the only university in the nation to achieve top 5 rankings for all of its PhD programs in those disciplines covered by the USWNR. Not that USWNR is gold, but this is TLS.
Actually, for everyone who says UCSD sucks (I have no connection to UCSD save the fact that I'm a CA resident): --LinkRemoved--. Methodology and everything present.
That ranking you gave had UC San Fransisco ranked higher than michigan, i discredit that entirely.
And to say berkeley has stronger programs in law, science and undergrad is very subjective. Both get underplayed in undergrad rankings because they are public. Law schools are peers, getting a masters or PHD in either ones science programs is very imressive, both are peers in terms of most things. I am not going to go item by item, but I would definitely say that there is little difference between the quality of Michigan and Berkeley overall.
UCLA is definitely a great school and is up there with michigan, and Berk, but it really does not do better than Michigan in much, if anything. To compare Michigan to UCSD is retarded. And again, having it ranked above michigan shows that ranking is using really odd metrics or is just idiotic.
I was just going to respond but galahad85 beat me to it. Not only is UCSF have one of the best medical schools in the country, the National Research Council ranked UCSF among the top ten schools in the U.S. in biochemistry and molecular biology (1st), genetics (2nd), cell and developmental biology (3rd), neurosciences (4th), physiology (5th), and biomedical engineering (7th). It apparently also has an awesome dental, pharmaceutical, and nursing school (all poached from wikipedia and linked sources).
What's nice about this ranking is that EVERYTHING (methodology, statistics, and analysis) is transparent. If someone has data to the contrary, this is an open thread. Claiming Michigan and Berkeley are peers (or that UCSF sucks) without data or evidence is hollow. If you'd like to share what metrics you find exactly "odd," do share.
The UC system is the finest public school system mainly because of the sheer amount of strong top-tier schools in one state - UCSD has an amazing research and science focus. California has been through a shitload of budget crises before (most recently 2003) and the UC's survived it. Arguing that all UC schools below UCLA and Berkeley suck without explaining how is pure anti-UC trolling.
As a side note: If you're a CA citizen and are accepted into UCSF med school, you can attend for FREE - HOW COME ATTENDING A PUBLIC LAW SCHOOL IN CALIFORNIA ISN'T FREE?
UH NO. One of my best friends (California resident) goes to UCSF medical school. It is NOT free. Where do you get your information from? I think he pays less than law students pay to go to law school but it is NOT FREE.
http://finaid.ucsf.edu/application-proc ... ent-budget
The tuition provided in that link does not even include non-resident tuition yet. The resident tuition for "medicine" (1-4) ranges from 27,000 to 31,000 per year. They expect your total cost (as a resident) to be 49,000 to 56,000 per year. This only includes RESIDENT tuition. You add non-resident fees on top of that.
Michigan >> UCLA partly because Michigan has far more top 10/top 15 programs than UCLA does, and its medical school > UCLA's medical school. They are tied this year, but normally Michigan's is higher ranked. Michigan's engineering program is in the top 10. UCLA's is not. Michigan's law is in the top 10. UCLA's is not. Michigan typically has the best political science grad school in the nation. Etc. Michigan's undergrad business program is typically in the top 3. UCLA's is not. The stats of the matriculated undergrad students are pretty comparable too.
In USNews' complete rankings of the world's best universities, Michigan ranks 19, while UCLA ranks 32.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/educatio ... p-200.html
When I applied to undergrad a couple years ago Michigan's undergrad was ranked at 22, which was higher ranked than UCLA undergrad too. (I got into both for ugrad as well as Berkeley undergrad, but I ended up attending a private undergrad so I'm not really trolling for any of these particular undergrads because I did not go to either), but I wanted to point out that Michigan's undergrad is normally better than UCLA's.
Michigan > UCLA. Sorry. The other UCs aren't even worth talking about.