Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

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scionb4
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Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby scionb4 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:36 pm

You'll notice that the national ranking of a university/college will not always match its law school school ranking. Often the institution is either much more highly regarded than its law school (case in point Michigan State University which is considered overall a "public Ivy" but has a tier 3 law school, and yes I know that its law school is technically private but it DOES carry the Michigan State name), or an institution's law school is much more highly regarded than the institution it is a part of (Case in point the University of Houston, University of Nevada - Las Vegas, Indiana University at Indianapolis, all of which are top 100 law schools a part of low ranked overall institutions.) My question is how much pull does the weight of the overall institution itself have on career prospects? I've heard that though Michigan State Law is a tier 3, the job prospects are really good in comparison to its ranking simply because it is a part of Michigan State. Do lower ranked law schools attached to higher ranked institutions have better career prospects than higher ranked law schools attached to lower ranked institutions?

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moandersen
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby moandersen » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:47 pm

scionb4 wrote:You'll notice that the national ranking of a university/college will not always match its law school school ranking. Often the institution is either much more highly regarded than its law school (case in point Michigan State University which is considered overall a "public Ivy" but has a tier 3 law school, and yes I know that its law school is technically private but it DOES carry the Michigan State name


:shock:

I think you mean Michigan can be considered a public ivy by some.....

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Helmholtz
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:49 pm

Michigan St. is considered a "public ivy" now? lolz

chitown825
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby chitown825 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:49 pm

--ImageRemoved--
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scionb4
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby scionb4 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:52 pm

moandersen wrote:
scionb4 wrote:You'll notice that the national ranking of a university/college will not always match its law school school ranking. Often the institution is either much more highly regarded than its law school (case in point Michigan State University which is considered overall a "public Ivy" but has a tier 3 law school, and yes I know that its law school is technically private but it DOES carry the Michigan State name


:shock:

I think you mean Michigan can be considered a public ivy by some.....


No, I don't. Michigan State IS now considered a Public Ivy according to The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities (2001) by Howard and Matthew Greene of Greene's Guides, though in all fairness so are a lot of schools that really merit raised eye brows. The list includes about 30 schools.

fortissimo
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby fortissimo » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:54 pm

scionb4 wrote:
moandersen wrote:
scionb4 wrote:You'll notice that the national ranking of a university/college will not always match its law school school ranking. Often the institution is either much more highly regarded than its law school (case in point Michigan State University which is considered overall a "public Ivy" but has a tier 3 law school, and yes I know that its law school is technically private but it DOES carry the Michigan State name


:shock:

I think you mean Michigan can be considered a public ivy by some.....


No, I don't. Michigan State IS now considered a Public Ivy according to The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities (2001) by Howard and Matthew Greene of Greene's Guides, though in all fairness so are a lot of schools that really merit raised eye brows. The list includes about 30 schools.


Yeah...Michigan STATE is considered a public ivy, which is weird since it's a pretty bad school all around. (That said I don't get how he compiled the list, since some of the Universities of California as well as the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor are also considered public ivies and these schools are much better. (Well some of the UCs are anyway...)

I don't really believe in the notion of "public ivies" but whatever.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby Sauer Grapes » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:57 pm

....
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09042014
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:58 pm

The only thing dumber than grouping schools into the ivy league as a method of determining quality(sorry grouping brown and Cornell with HYP is silly), is creating a public ivy grouping. Either what Michigan State shouldn't be in it.

Plus what public schools are better usually determines where you are at.

scionb4
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby scionb4 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:58 pm

Anyway, back to the topic, because this isn't about the prestige of Michigan State specifically.

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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby 09042014 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:59 pm

scionb4 wrote:You'll notice that the national ranking of a university/college will not always match its law school school ranking. Often the institution is either much more highly regarded than its law school (case in point Michigan State University which is considered overall a "public Ivy" but has a tier 3 law school, and yes I know that its law school is technically private but it DOES carry the Michigan State name), or an institution's law school is much more highly regarded than the institution it is a part of (Case in point the University of Houston, University of Nevada - Las Vegas, Indiana University at Indianapolis, all of which are top 100 law schools a part of low ranked overall institutions.) My question is how much pull does the weight of the overall institution itself have on career prospects? I've heard that though Michigan State Law is a tier 3, the job prospects are really good in comparison to its ranking simply because it is a part of Michigan State. Do lower ranked law schools attached to higher ranked institutions have better career prospects than higher ranked law schools attached to lower ranked institutions?


Almost none.

ughOSU
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby ughOSU » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:59 pm

My guess is that unless it's an actual Ivy it won't matter at all. And even if it is an Ivy, it's probably because they tend to have good law schools.

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toolshed
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby toolshed » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:00 pm

fortissimo wrote:
scionb4 wrote:
moandersen wrote:
scionb4 wrote:You'll notice that the national ranking of a university/college will not always match its law school school ranking. Often the institution is either much more highly regarded than its law school (case in point Michigan State University which is considered overall a "public Ivy" but has a tier 3 law school, and yes I know that its law school is technically private but it DOES carry the Michigan State name


:shock:

I think you mean Michigan can be considered a public ivy by some.....


No, I don't. Michigan State IS now considered a Public Ivy according to The Public Ivies: America's Flagship Public Universities (2001) by Howard and Matthew Greene of Greene's Guides, though in all fairness so are a lot of schools that really merit raised eye brows. The list includes about 30 schools.


Yeah...Michigan STATE is considered a public ivy, which is weird since it's a pretty bad school all around. (That said I don't get how he compiled the list, since some of the Universities of California as well as the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor are also considered public ivies and these schools are much better. (Well some of the UCs are anyway...)
I don't really believe in the notion of "public ivies" but whatever.


Blatant Anti-Michigan trolling.

chitown825
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby chitown825 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:01 pm

scionb4 wrote:Anyway, back to the topic, because this isn't about the prestige of Michigan State specifically.


+1

This is a beautiful illustration of how fast something can get off topic. That being said, I've added some emphasis above.

scionb4
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby scionb4 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:02 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
scionb4 wrote:You'll notice that the national ranking of a university/college will not always match its law school school ranking. Often the institution is either much more highly regarded than its law school (case in point Michigan State University which is considered overall a "public Ivy" but has a tier 3 law school, and yes I know that its law school is technically private but it DOES carry the Michigan State name), or an institution's law school is much more highly regarded than the institution it is a part of (Case in point the University of Houston, University of Nevada - Las Vegas, Indiana University at Indianapolis, all of which are top 100 law schools a part of low ranked overall institutions.) My question is how much pull does the weight of the overall institution itself have on career prospects? I've heard that though Michigan State Law is a tier 3, the job prospects are really good in comparison to its ranking simply because it is a part of Michigan State. Do lower ranked law schools attached to higher ranked institutions have better career prospects than higher ranked law schools attached to lower ranked institutions?


Almost none.


Thank you for actually answering the question I asked.

fortissimo
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby fortissimo » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:02 pm

toolshed wrote: Blatant Anti-Michigan trolling.


? Anti-michigan state or anti-university of michigan? *Confused here* I think you read my post incorrectly. I am going to the University of Michigan Law School, so no reason why I'd troll against my own school. University of Michigan >>>> most of the UC schools. But I think Michigan STATE (or anything with a "state" in it) blows.

I think the only good UCs are Berkeley and UCLA, tbh. And I think the University of Michigan >> UCLA not just for law school, but also when you look at the entire institution and other grad programs. The other UCs blow and are pretty easy to get into.

Glad we clarified this?

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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby scionb4 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:06 pm

fortissimo wrote:
toolshed wrote: Blatant Anti-Michigan trolling.


? Anti-michigan state or anti-university of michigan? I think you read my post incorrectly. I am going to the University of Michigan Law School, so no reason why I'd troll against my own school. University of Michigan >>>> most of the UC schools. But I think Michigan STATE (or anything with a "state" in it) blows.

I think the only good UCs are Berkeley and UCLA, tbh. And I think the University of Michigan >> UCLA not just for law school, but also when you look at the entire institution. The other UCs blow and are pretty easy to get into.


I'd have to disagree w/the "anything "State" blows comment. Some very strong State schools by rankings: Arizona State, Florida State, Pennsylvania State, Louisiana State, and you could NEVER get away with saying that Ohio State blows, unless you're just tired of them kicking the shit out of Michigan at football every year.

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toolshed
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby toolshed » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:07 pm

fortissimo wrote:
toolshed wrote: Blatant Anti-Michigan trolling.


? Anti-michigan state or anti-university of michigan? *Confused here* I think you read my post incorrectly. I am going to the University of Michigan Law School, so no reason why I'd troll against my own school. University of Michigan >>>> most of the UC schools. But I think Michigan STATE (or anything with a "state" in it) blows.

I think the only good UCs are Berkeley and UCLA, tbh. And I think the University of Michigan >> UCLA not just for law school, but also when you look at the entire institution and other grad programs. The other UCs blow and are pretty easy to get into.

Glad we clarified this?


I read your post as "the list included the UC schools and Michigan-Ann Arbor (though the UC schools are better)." I thought you were referring to UM (which I totally agree is better, both in UG and LS). I must have been confused.

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tallboone
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby tallboone » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:09 pm


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Vincent Vega
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby Vincent Vega » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:09 pm

To answer OP, I do think that institution prestige probably does weigh into employment, but not as much as outsiders would probably think. For instance, it would sound pretty good to most people to say that you're going to the University of Kentucky's law school because their basketball team is pretty good, but in reality UK doesn't open many doors outside of its home state. I do think name brand schools do carry a bit of weight, though.

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NayBoer
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby NayBoer » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:10 pm

The boost from a prestigious undergrad is already present in the other metrics used to determine LS quality. I would not factor it in separately, that would basically be a guess.

fortissimo
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby fortissimo » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:11 pm

toolshed wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
toolshed wrote: Blatant Anti-Michigan trolling.


? Anti-michigan state or anti-university of michigan? *Confused here* I think you read my post incorrectly. I am going to the University of Michigan Law School, so no reason why I'd troll against my own school. University of Michigan >>>> most of the UC schools. But I think Michigan STATE (or anything with a "state" in it) blows.

I think the only good UCs are Berkeley and UCLA, tbh. And I think the University of Michigan >> UCLA not just for law school, but also when you look at the entire institution and other grad programs. The other UCs blow and are pretty easy to get into.

Glad we clarified this?


I read your post as "the list included the UC schools and Michigan-Ann Arbor (though the UC schools are better)." I thought you were referring to UM (which I totally agree is better, both in UG and LS). I must have been confused.


No way...there are a ton of party-ish UC schools that admit over 50% of applicants. basically everything except Berkeley and UCLA.

scionb4
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby scionb4 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:13 pm

Halibut6 wrote:To answer OP, I do think that institution prestige probably does weigh into employment, but not as much as outsiders would probably think. For instance, it would sound pretty good to most people to say that you're going to the University of Kentucky's law school because their basketball team is pretty good, but in reality UK doesn't open many doors outside of its home state. I do think name brand schools do carry a bit of weight, though.


This was a very well-articulated response, though Kentucky is certainly better than "pretty good" at basketball at number 4 in the country.

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Birdman
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby Birdman » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:24 pm

.
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RVP11
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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby RVP11 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:38 pm

fortissimo wrote:
toolshed wrote:
fortissimo wrote:
toolshed wrote: Blatant Anti-Michigan trolling.


? Anti-michigan state or anti-university of michigan? *Confused here* I think you read my post incorrectly. I am going to the University of Michigan Law School, so no reason why I'd troll against my own school. University of Michigan >>>> most of the UC schools. But I think Michigan STATE (or anything with a "state" in it) blows.

I think the only good UCs are Berkeley and UCLA, tbh. And I think the University of Michigan >> UCLA not just for law school, but also when you look at the entire institution and other grad programs. The other UCs blow and are pretty easy to get into.

Glad we clarified this?


I read your post as "the list included the UC schools and Michigan-Ann Arbor (though the UC schools are better)." I thought you were referring to UM (which I totally agree is better, both in UG and LS). I must have been confused.


No way...there are a ton of party-ish UC schools that admit over 50% of applicants. basically everything except Berkeley and UCLA.


Eh.

Irvine, Davis, and San Diego (and Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz to a lesser extent) are solid schools. Better than 95% of the state schools out there.

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Re: Weight of the whole Institution, not just the Law School

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:42 pm

UG =/= Law school prestige. BU/GW/NYU/Fordham are much more prestigious then their UGs. I think NYU takes the cake for largest disparity.




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