Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

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William & Mary vs. Notre Dame vs. Fordham @sticker

William & Mary
56
21%
Notre Dame
131
50%
Fordham
74
28%
 
Total votes: 261

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:32 am

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vanwinkle
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:43 am

jwrit07 wrote:.

:?:

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:05 am

anybody know when the next USNEWS rankings come out?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:08 am

jwrit07 wrote:anybody know when the next USNEWS rankings come out?

Right after your first seat deposit is due, whenever that is. :wink:

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:04 am

hmmm....that seems about right

lawschooliseasy
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby lawschooliseasy » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:07 am

OperaSoprano wrote:I followed my heart, and I'm very glad I did.


Report back in three years.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:14 am

lawschooliseasy wrote:
OperaSoprano wrote:I followed my heart, and I'm very glad I did.


Report back in three years.


I will. :lol:

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:29 pm

HARSH, but does anybody actually know when the next USNEWS rankings come out. I'm guessing sometime in the late spring.

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BiteyTLS
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby BiteyTLS » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:53 pm

None of these schools are worth sticker especially on student loans at a unsubsidized 8.5 percent. Terrible financial decision. Check out your future here -http://www.finaid.org/calculators/loanpayments.phtml

If you got into ND, you should have some money at some lesser-ranked Tier 1s.

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:00 pm

anybody go to Notre Dame?

lawschooliseasy
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby lawschooliseasy » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:03 pm

Why does this website have such a hard-on for Notre Dame?

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:30 pm

lawschooliseasy wrote:Why does this website have such a hard-on for Notre Dame?


Whats wrong with Notre Dame? It appears to be a decent school with (in a stable economy) good job prospects for its students. A bit pricey but aren't they all? Everyone can't attend a T-14.

jrod
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jrod » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:32 pm

If ND is good for BigLaw around the country assuming you're top thirdish, quarterish, why doesn't UIUC, which is ranked the same, have the same rep around here?

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:42 pm

jrod wrote:If ND is good for BigLaw around the country assuming you're top thirdish, quarterish, why doesn't UIUC, which is ranked the same, have the same rep around here?


hmmm...good question. I think that's just it. Thats the problem. They are both ranked the same, tied at 23, but they aren't really all that similar. The tied ranking can be very misleading and takes far more into account then how many students are able to obtain BIGLAW jobs. Not to insult UIUC but I think most people will agree overall Notre Dame is a little bit better law school then UIUC, especially when considering job prospects outside of the midwest. In addition, I do not think anybody can legitimately argue Indiana and Notre Dame are equally as good law schools. Notre Dame once again is a little bit better although both schools are tied at 23. What factors USNEWS uses to determine that all these schools are tied when clearly they are not confuses me.

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:36 pm

but to answer your question I think name recognition plays a vital part. Everybody is familiar with the name Notre Dame and it has a very powerful alumni network. I think that goes a very long way which is why I would opt to attend Notre Dame vs. a lower T1 school with money.

some schools are far better then their rankings suggest. USNEWS would have you believe Iowa or Minnesota is "better" than George Washington.

Or that Fordham is on par with Alabama. I'm sure Alabama is strong within its own region but does USNEWS take into account geographical preference? It should. Few would opt to be an attorney in Alabama vs. being an attorney in NYC.


I just don't think that's the case...

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Blindmelon
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:36 pm

lawschooliseasy wrote:Why does this website have such a hard-on for Notre Dame?


Agreed. Its a good school, but its not a T14. I think we get a lot of football fans/midwesterners on this site... for anyone to suggest ND over Fordham for NYC is clearly either ill-informed or in love with ND for some odd reason.

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:56 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
lawschooliseasy wrote:Why does this website have such a hard-on for Notre Dame?


Agreed. Its a good school, but its not a T14. I think we get a lot of football fans/midwesterners on this site... for anyone to suggest ND over Fordham for NYC is clearly either ill-informed or in love with ND for some odd reason.


No one was suggesting Notre Dame over Fordham for the New York market. Notre Dame graduates have much more options in terms of national placement and aren't dependent on one sole market as Fordham is to New York.

If your a 3L coming out of Fordham right now you not only do not have a job but you do not have a job and are stuck in NYC of all places. Hopefully in time this will get better.

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:52 pm

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OperaSoprano
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:10 am

jwrit07 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
lawschooliseasy wrote:Why does this website have such a hard-on for Notre Dame?


Agreed. Its a good school, but its not a T14. I think we get a lot of football fans/midwesterners on this site... for anyone to suggest ND over Fordham for NYC is clearly either ill-informed or in love with ND for some odd reason.


No one was suggesting Notre Dame over Fordham for the New York market. Notre Dame graduates have much more options in terms of national placement and aren't dependent on one sole market as Fordham is to New York.

If your a 3L coming out of Fordham right now you not only do not have a job but you do not have a job and are stuck in NYC of all places. Hopefully in time this will get better.


Why would being stuck in NYC be a problem? I'd rather be stuck here than stuck anywhere else. Fordham is doing about as well as its peer schools, anecdotally speaking. Anecdotes are all we have right now, and that is problematic, but I'm confident that actual data, when it arrives, will bear this out. The T30 did get hit hard by the recession, but all these schools have historically had pretty strong placement, and when the recovery gets going, Fordham's location and alumni network will be just as strong as they've always been.

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:39 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
jwrit07 wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
lawschooliseasy wrote:Why does this website have such a hard-on for Notre Dame?


Agreed. Its a good school, but its not a T14. I think we get a lot of football fans/midwesterners on this site... for anyone to suggest ND over Fordham for NYC is clearly either ill-informed or in love with ND for some odd reason.


No one was suggesting Notre Dame over Fordham for the New York market. Notre Dame graduates have much more options in terms of national placement and aren't dependent on one sole market as Fordham is to New York.

If your a 3L coming out of Fordham right now you not only do not have a job but you do not have a job and are stuck in NYC of all places. Hopefully in time this will get better.


Why would being stuck in NYC be a problem? I'd rather be stuck here than stuck anywhere else. Fordham is doing about as well as its peer schools, anecdotally speaking. Anecdotes are all we have right now, and that is problematic, but I'm confident that actual data, when it arrives, will bear this out. The T30 did get hit hard by the recession, but all these schools have historically had pretty strong placement, and when the recovery gets going, Fordham's location and alumni network will be just as strong as they've always been.



all i was saying is it's an expensive place to be stuck looking for a job

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:40 pm

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edgarderby
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby edgarderby » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:11 pm

keg411 wrote:I don't think that can be right. NALP even lists a few NJ firms that do OCI at W&M.

If I were OP, I'd say pick a market. DC/VA - William & Mary, Chicago/Midwest - ND, New York metro - Fordham
If OP is debt-adverse, go to W&M as that is the cheapest option and they're all similar in ranking.


I think chicago biglaw hired one person this year, out of the 20+ Chicago OCI firms. lolllll

And I got shut out of midwest mid and small law, after being in the top 25% after 1L. lollllll

Meanwhile, one of my main bros had less "prestigious" stats and got a Texas boutique firm, while some people on law review are still looking for unpaid work. I think of all schools, ND is the most random as far as getting a job these days, since we really don't have any market to rely on. Cincinnati used to be a seller's market, and I don't know of a single person that got a Cincy firm this year, even though I know many who were shooting for anything in the city. That said, I'd still rather be here than William and Mary or Fordham, good lord. I think you should go to ND, or just go to a 2nd or 3rd tier school with a big scholarship. The rules have changed in this game.

edit: Also, I'm around to answer any specific questions you have. Just PM me. Oh, and I actually had money down on W&M before I got into ND, so I was in a similar position.

eidt 2: I have friends at University of Cincinnati, one that turned down law review to be on the moot court team, and he still got shut out of every Cincy/Dayton firm, so I don't want anyone to interpret this as my claiming ND isn't as good as other schools, just that it's now mattering more on what area you're looking to go to, I.E. texas is a lot healthier than the midwest, even if it is more competitive.

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2010law
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby 2010law » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:56 pm

I had the ND and W&M situation and W&M won
As for Fordham, I have 2 friends there now (2L / 3L) and they HATE it. one of them keeps telling me how he wants to kill himself and he regrets his decision every day (but, you could probably find this attitude at every LS). I figure that I want to to go a school that will give me a top notch education and all 3 fit that bill. W&M wins in terms of environment. W&M also wins on sticker price as it is easy to establish as in state so tuition will be roughly 70K for 3 years (without any scholarship / grant $). I figure that since almost EVERY other grad is planning to go BIGLAW and make 160K plus the first year out of school, I'll take a middle law job making 80K and move up from there. I also plan to settle in the DC / VA / NC area and W&M has a strong reputation in the area.--- I personally think all 3 enjoy a certain level of national prestige whereas alot of other schools are probably very local.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of them and I am sure there are a ton of people that would be willing to kill to get accepted to even 1 of these schools.- --- good luck.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:03 pm

2010law wrote:I had the ND and W&M situation and W&M won
As for Fordham, I have 2 friends there now (2L / 3L) and they HATE it. one of them keeps telling me how he wants to kill himself and he regrets his decision every day (but, you could probably find this attitude at every LS). I figure that I want to to go a school that will give me a top notch education and all 3 fit that bill. W&M wins in terms of environment. W&M also wins on sticker price as it is easy to establish as in state so tuition will be roughly 70K for 3 years (without any scholarship / grant $). I figure that since almost EVERY other grad is planning to go BIGLAW and make 160K plus the first year out of school, I'll take a middle law job making 80K and move up from there. I also plan to settle in the DC / VA / NC area and W&M has a strong reputation in the area.--- I personally think all 3 enjoy a certain level of national prestige whereas alot of other schools are probably very local.
I don't think you can go wrong with any of them and I am sure there are a ton of people that would be willing to kill to get accepted to even 1 of these schools.- --- good luck.


+1, I love BU, but at times I wish I went to WM and saved the money. Great school on the cheap and extremely low COL.

jwrit07
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Re: Notre Dame vs. William & Mary vs. Fordham

Postby jwrit07 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:14 pm

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