Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

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ughOSU
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Re: Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

Postby ughOSU » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:35 am

If it's what you're aiming for, you should really get to know your secondary market before making the decision to go T14 over a strong regional school. If there are no major law firms and/or no major offices of these law firms, you may have a better chance of employment at a strong regional school. Check out where the big law firms recruit. If there are a decent number that recruit at T14s, then it may well be worth it to go T14. If not, it may be because the firms in that area have given up on T14 students staying in the area. Additionally, if the big firms in the area recruit at T14s, the slightly smaller/less prestigious firms in that area would have more pressure to accept T14 applicants as they need to compete with the big boys. Just some 0L thoughts...

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:58 am

This may be off topic, but overall I think many 0L's don't understand the point of attending a T14.

The whole point (for ~80% of people that attend T14s) is the score a desirable summer gig (in this order [descending] Vault 100, Amlaw 100, NLJ 250, NALP firms) during 2L OCI.

Of course they want the 2L summer job to turn into a job later, but that is up to their personal abilities and personality.

Almost 0 NLJ250 firms hire people who they did not either 1) hire directly from law school or 2) lateral from another firm.

So if you miss "the big law boat," you will won't be able to rent a speed boat and catch up to it later in life.

However, if someone in that ~80% that is seeking big law misses the boat, their gamble was for nothing and they aren't in a better position than someone at some other ~T1s-T2s (depending).

If there is a market you want to practice in, and
1) you have no connections to it and
2) the school you want to attend is not in the state of that market (or in that region)
you may need to establish a connection to that market before attending that school.

For example if you want to practice in California (and you have no connections there), UCLA/USC would be better choices than pretty much all of the schools ranked below Berkeley.

Of course if you do have connections to California, it doesn't matter much which school you choose ( i.e. U Penn/Duke/Michigan/Northwestern would all put you in the same place as USC/UCLA, if not better slightly).

Just something to keep in mind

mr.undroppable
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Re: Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

Postby mr.undroppable » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:09 pm

I don't understand why the concept of looking up firms, checking out the attorney bios, and seeing for yourself where people went to law school is such a foreign concept for 0Ls who instead choose to come here and ask other 0Ls about whether or not a T14 is worth it.

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jonas586
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Re: Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

Postby jonas586 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:11 pm

Mr Undroppable: were you constipated when you created your moniker name?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:27 pm

someones alt wrote:I live in Texas now and have been accepted to one of CCN so far, and some of the T-14 on down with some others pending and UT. I plan on working in Texas after I graduate, and I'm leaning towards Duke.

I have a family friend who has worked at one of the big three Texas law firms for 10+ years, and she reaffirmed the TLS conventional wisdom that ties to Texas are an important aspect of hiring. She told me if I was absolutely sure I wanted to work in Texas, to go to UT. I asked her if going to Duke would significantly hurt me when applying to Texas firms and she said with my ties to the area it would be a leg up over a UT grad but she imagined more expensive, so why bother.

I'm not sure if the marginal benefit is worth it to be honest. Even though right now I think I want to work in Texas, I'm not 100%, and Duke offers more flexibility which is why I'm headed in that direction. I'd say if you absolutely, positively want to work in Texas when you graduate then go to UT, because if you get into a T-14, UT will likely be a lot cheaper (especially if you're a Texas resident). Even if you get into HYS, you're probably in the running for a full scholarship to UT.

Also FWIW, when I say I have ties, I mean going to undergrad in a specific city, having most of my family in that city, and living there almost my entire life. If you're from out of state and have no reason to be in Texas but want to work there, I'd take the traditional TLS advice and go to UT.


+1. this is what ive heard as well. im going HLS w/ the plan of returning to TX asap haha (unless by some streak of luck i can hack it in academia). if i hadnt gotten into HLS but rather only Columbia, i would have thought long and hard about my decision. UVA though i hear is very strong in the south, even in TX. dont know about ITE, but using some weak (read: anecdotal) evidence, i knew a few UVA grads that had a pretty easy time getting firm jobs in biglaw firms in TX a couple of yrs ago. UT right now isnt that safe for biglaw, even in TX. i hear complaints all the time about the legal market and how you really have to be in the top at UT to have a good shot. i love UT as much as the next texan, but even i got a bit scared.

note: i definitely have TX ties -- grew up in TX, go to an undergrad in TX, family is in TX

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:29 pm

mr.undroppable wrote:I don't understand why the concept of looking up firms, checking out the attorney bios, and seeing for yourself where people went to law school is such a foreign concept for 0Ls who instead choose to come here and ask other 0Ls about whether or not a T14 is worth it.


mainly self-selection -- i mean if you look at a TX firm, you'll see almost all UT <surprise>...that and the bios will mainly be for ppl that were not hired ITE.

but you're right, it is a good place to start to see which other T14 schools tend to place in TX more or something for example (i.e. UVA).

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Attending a top 14 aiming for a secondary market

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:30 pm

heyguys wrote:I want to work in TX after law school and I'm attending a T14. I justify it to myself by saying that it will make the Austin market more open to me and that it will make up for my lack of distinct TX ties (I'm from the southwest, but not TX); ultimately though, it was probably just a stupid decision. It's really hard to turn down HYS when they come knocking as a 0L.


sry to say but w/o actual TX ties, you prob wont break into the austin market. hell, even IF you had TX ties, you'd prob only get into austin laterally. it's an insular market that is ridiculously small yet hella popular.




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