is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

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Blindmelon
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Blindmelon » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:00 pm

Bankhead wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
Bankhead wrote:Hopewell:

I'm just saying once you get below the T17 or so they are all pretty much the same. Therefore it doesn't make sense to obsess over this shit. Go where the money is good.


I 100% agree. Brooklyn/NYLS/Fordham are all the same. As are Suffolk/New England/BC. Also, nowadays Thomas Jefferson = Phoenix = USC.


You know clear well that the bounds of our conversation is limited to the Tier 1.


'Dozo and Fordham are both T1... so you think they're the same?

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Notor
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Notor » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:03 pm

I was initially excited by IUB, but now I feel that it is totally overrated. They seem to be gaming the rankings somehow, and are attracting better students based on increased financial aid packages.

Also, I still don't see what market IUB feeds into, as it has basically no saturation in Ohio, there are better choices for Chicago, and Indy-Indy is sitting right in Indianapolis. I'm not seeing the draw unless you are an Indiana resident who is getting some money or you are an out-of-stater who got a full ride.

Bankhead
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Bankhead » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:04 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
Blindmelon wrote:
Bankhead wrote:Hopewell:

I'm just saying once you get below the T17 or so they are all pretty much the same. Therefore it doesn't make sense to obsess over this shit. Go where the money is good.


I 100% agree. Brooklyn/NYLS/Fordham are all the same. As are Suffolk/New England/BC. Also, nowadays Thomas Jefferson = Phoenix = USC.


You know clear well that the bounds of our conversation is limited to the Tier 1.


'Dozo and Fordham are both T1... so you think they're the same?


ITE, basically, yeah... I'd take the money at 'Dozo.

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vanwinkle
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:06 pm

Blindmelon wrote:'Dozo and Fordham are both T1... so you think they're the same?

They are both the same, in that at both you will have to do really well or network like crazy in order to find good jobs ITE.

canceled02062010
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby canceled02062010 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:10 pm

Bankhead wrote:Hopewell:

I'm just saying once you get below the T17 or so they are all pretty much the same. Therefore it doesn't make sense to obsess over this shit. Go where the money is good.


If that is what you're saying, then yes, I agree for the most part, with the exception that the school should be in a region that you intend to work in.

And fordham =/= dozo. not even close. even in ITE top 10% at fordham got biglaw, the top ten people at cardozo might get biglaw.

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sarlis
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby sarlis » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:12 pm

TipTravHoot wrote:I hope it falls.

It annoys me so many Big Ten schools are more highly ranked than Ohio State.


+1.

Bankhead
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Bankhead » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:13 pm

hopewell wrote:
Bankhead wrote:Hopewell:

I'm just saying once you get below the T17 or so they are all pretty much the same. Therefore it doesn't make sense to obsess over this shit. Go where the money is good.


If that is what you're saying, then yes, I agree for the most part, with the exception that the school should be in a region that you intend to work in.

And fordham =/= dozo. not even close. even in ITE top 10% at fordham got biglaw, the top ten people at cardozo might get biglaw.


Well, have fun trying to get there.

I'm well aware that BlindMelon chose BU because it was the most "prestigious" and high ranked school he got into. I hope it will work out for him. I would not advocate this decision making approach to 0L's this year.

Rawlsian
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Rawlsian » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:15 pm

sarlis wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:I hope it falls.

It annoys me so many Big Ten schools are more highly ranked than Ohio State.


+1.


I concur, but I'm willing to grant that perhaps two of them should be...

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los blancos
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby los blancos » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:17 pm

Rawlsian wrote:
sarlis wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:I hope it falls.

It annoys me so many Big Ten schools are more highly ranked than Ohio State.


+1.


I concur, but I'm willing to grant that perhaps two of them should be...


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Blindmelon
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Blindmelon » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:21 pm

Bankhead wrote:
hopewell wrote:
Bankhead wrote:Hopewell:

I'm just saying once you get below the T17 or so they are all pretty much the same. Therefore it doesn't make sense to obsess over this shit. Go where the money is good.


If that is what you're saying, then yes, I agree for the most part, with the exception that the school should be in a region that you intend to work in.

And fordham =/= dozo. not even close. even in ITE top 10% at fordham got biglaw, the top ten people at cardozo might get biglaw.


Well, have fun trying to get there.

I'm well aware that BlindMelon chose BU because it was the most "prestigious" and high ranked school he got into. I hope it will work out for him. I would not advocate this decision making approach to 0L's this year.



Partially true. I chose between to schools where I'd be less than 100k in debt coming out, and where they place in areas other than law, i.e. had some notoriety outside of biglaw firms. If you look in the federal government, there are tons of BU Law grads (Secretary of Commerce), Cohen (former Defense Sec.), tons of House Reps, Governors, etc. Its not all about prestige, but you can judge a school by what alumni do and what contacts they'll give.

Bankhead
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Bankhead » Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:27 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
hopewell wrote:
Bankhead wrote:Hopewell:

I'm just saying once you get below the T17 or so they are all pretty much the same. Therefore it doesn't make sense to obsess over this shit. Go where the money is good.


If that is what you're saying, then yes, I agree for the most part, with the exception that the school should be in a region that you intend to work in.

And fordham =/= dozo. not even close. even in ITE top 10% at fordham got biglaw, the top ten people at cardozo might get biglaw.


Well, have fun trying to get there.

I'm well aware that BlindMelon chose BU because it was the most "prestigious" and high ranked school he got into. I hope it will work out for him. I would not advocate this decision making approach to 0L's this year.



Partially true. I chose between to schools where I'd be less than 100k in debt coming out, and where they place in areas other than law, i.e. had some notoriety outside of biglaw firms. If you look in the federal government, there are tons of BU Law grads (Secretary of Commerce), Cohen (former Defense Sec.), tons of House Reps, Governors, etc. Its not all about prestige, but you can judge a school by what alumni do and what contacts they'll give.


Fair enough.

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badwithpseudonyms
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby badwithpseudonyms » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:36 pm

Notor wrote:I was initially excited by IUB, but now I feel that it is totally overrated. They seem to be gaming the rankings somehow, and are attracting better students based on increased financial aid packages.

Also, I still don't see what market IUB feeds into, as it has basically no saturation in Ohio, there are better choices for Chicago, and Indy-Indy is sitting right in Indianapolis. I'm not seeing the draw unless you are an Indiana resident who is getting some money or you are an out-of-stater who got a full ride.


Notor, are you backtracking on your advice to me to take the money [at IUB] and run?

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kings84_wr
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby kings84_wr » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:32 pm

Regardless of US News, has absolutely anything changed from IU"s jump from 38 to 23 or whatever it was before? I think not. It just shows in reality there is not much difference in any of the public midwestern schools. and comparing BU or GW to IU is impossible, because they really aren't competing against each other outside of USNews

The economy collapsing may actually help IU somewhat because they have lots and lots of cash to spend, in comparison to the other public midwestern schools who may not have as much cash available.

Bankhead
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Bankhead » Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:41 pm

kings84_wr wrote:Regardless of US News, has absolutely anything changed from IU"s jump from 38 to 23 or whatever it was before? I think not. It just shows in reality there is not much difference in any of the public midwestern schools. and comparing BU or GW to IU is impossible, because they really aren't competing against each other outside of USNews

The economy collapsing may actually help IU somewhat because they have lots and lots of cash to spend, in comparison to the other public midwestern schools who may not have as much cash available.


Changing. Not changed.

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Vincent Vega
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Vincent Vega » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:07 pm

I've considered this question significantly over the past month or so, and have reached the conclusion that it will likely fall out of the top 25 this year, but barely. However, this will not affect my decision to attend IU. If it falls to #30 this year, I will still be pleased as punch to be going to such a great school with $$$. Presently, Illinois at $10k/year is my next best alternative, and I would still choose IU over UIUC if Indiana was still ranked 36th. This economy has shown that coming out of school without huge debt has wonderful benefits.

Like someone else said, Indiana is benefiting off of the poor economy by having the ability to give out such large scholarships. The thing about the rankings, though, is that they are a bit self-perpetuating. Once a school reaches a higher ranking, it is more likely to maintain a higher ranking because higher caliber students become attracted to it.

So, as an incoming student, I can say that while I too believe Indiana is somewhat over-ranked at the moment by conventional wisdom, it is not completely unworthy of its spot because it is doing what it needs to do to continue its increased place in the rankings. If you are a 0L looking at IUB, don't be scared off because of the talk of inflated ranking, because it is an improving school with the means to continue the trend.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:11 pm

Bankhead wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:

As for IU-B, it seems to be sort of an enigma. Stats show it was a bit underrated at the mid-30's but the anecdotes from students graduating from there ITE suggest that t-25 is rather high.


What are you talking about? This makes no sense at all. Are you basing the ranking entirely on job prospects or something?


No, RC fail. IU-B's stats (LSAT and GPA) suggest the mid 30's is too low. Their stats seem to be a little higher than other schools in that same range. Maybe I should have called it selectivity or whatever term US News or you particularly prefer.

Then I said, their grads seem to be struggling ITE. So, I wasn't just talking about employment stats.

As for what I said about Minn. placing into academia, I was more so implying that academically the school is well-respected not so much discussing possible legal employment.

Granted my post could have been written better but yours could have been less douchey.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:28 pm

TipTravHoot wrote:I hope it falls.

It annoys me so many Big Ten schools are more highly ranked than Ohio State.


Ohio state sucks:
--ImageRemoved--

Bankhead
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Bankhead » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:35 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:

As for IU-B, it seems to be sort of an enigma. Stats show it was a bit underrated at the mid-30's but the anecdotes from students graduating from there ITE suggest that t-25 is rather high.


What are you talking about? This makes no sense at all. Are you basing the ranking entirely on job prospects or something?


No, RC fail. IU-B's stats (LSAT and GPA) suggest the mid 30's is too low. Their stats seem to be a little higher than other schools in that same range. Maybe I should have called it selectivity or whatever term US News or you particularly prefer.

Then I said, their grads seem to be struggling ITE. So, I wasn't just talking about employment stats.

As for what I said about Minn. placing into academia, I was more so implying that academically the school is well-respected not so much discussing possible legal employment.

Granted my post could have been written better but yours could have been less douchey.


I'm sorry bro, your post just wasn't cogent. In fact, I still don't really understand what you are getting at. There are schools in the 30's that have higher LSAT and GPA rankings than schools in the 20's. The USNWR is made up of many different criteria that lead to the overall ranking.

keg411
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby keg411 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:08 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
Bankhead wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:

As for IU-B, it seems to be sort of an enigma. Stats show it was a bit underrated at the mid-30's but the anecdotes from students graduating from there ITE suggest that t-25 is rather high.


What are you talking about? This makes no sense at all. Are you basing the ranking entirely on job prospects or something?


No, RC fail. IU-B's stats (LSAT and GPA) suggest the mid 30's is too low. Their stats seem to be a little higher than other schools in that same range. Maybe I should have called it selectivity or whatever term US News or you particularly prefer.

Then I said, their grads seem to be struggling ITE. So, I wasn't just talking about employment stats.

As for what I said about Minn. placing into academia, I was more so implying that academically the school is well-respected not so much discussing possible legal employment.

Granted my post could have been written better but yours could have been less douchey.


UGA (mid 30's) has the same "164" technique that IU-B does and that school is in the mid-30's. And it's even cheaper IS than IU-B is.

And according to the rep at the law school forum last year, IU-B's grad ARE struggling in terms of employment (they aren't staying in Indiana and they aren't getting Chicago jobs). Maybe it's the portability of Indiana as a whole because another poster who goes to ND said ND was killed this year in terms of employment.

I do think IU-B is a good school, though, and probably should be around 30. It's just gotten hit harder than others in ITE and there are a few other midwestern schools that are similar and slightly better (UIUC, WUSTL and Minnesota).

Bankhead
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby Bankhead » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:21 pm

I don't necessarily think that other midwestern schools are doing any better. They might be. But I don't see any basis for that claim.

keg411
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby keg411 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:48 pm

Bankhead wrote:I don't necessarily think that other midwestern schools are doing any better. They might be. But I don't see any basis for that claim.


I didn't say the other midwestern schools are necessarily doing better in terms of employment (no one knows what those statistics really are; all anyone has is anecdotal reports or what they're told by the schools), I said they were "better schools". Just looking on a pure numbers basis, UIUC, WUSTL, ND and Minnesota are more selective than IU-B. All have higher assessment scores except ND. All have higher lawyers/judges scores. Their admissions criteria are higher. WUSTL and Minnesota have higher USNWR rankings, UIUC and ND are tied with IU-B.

But what you hear on employment can always be weird and misleading. Maybe Indiana grads are doing much better than their midwest peer schools. But it's going to be hard to figure out until we see any type of employment statistics for this year and last year.

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RMstratosphere
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby RMstratosphere » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:06 pm

Halibut6 wrote:I've considered this question significantly over the past month or so, and have reached the conclusion that it will likely fall out of the top 25 this year, but barely. However, this will not affect my decision to attend IU. If it falls to #30 this year, I will still be pleased as punch to be going to such a great school with $$$. Presently, Illinois at $10k/year is my next best alternative, and I would still choose IU over UIUC if Indiana was still ranked 36th. This economy has shown that coming out of school without huge debt has wonderful benefits.

Like someone else said, Indiana is benefiting off of the poor economy by having the ability to give out such large scholarships. The thing about the rankings, though, is that they are a bit self-perpetuating. Once a school reaches a higher ranking, it is more likely to maintain a higher ranking because higher caliber students become attracted to it.

So, as an incoming student, I can say that while I too believe Indiana is somewhat over-ranked at the moment by conventional wisdom, it is not completely unworthy of its spot because it is doing what it needs to do to continue its increased place in the rankings. If you are a 0L looking at IUB, don't be scared off because of the talk of inflated ranking, because it is an improving school with the means to continue the trend.


+1

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bighead715
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Re: is Indiana University bloomington really a T25? will it stay

Postby bighead715 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:23 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:I hope it falls.

It annoys me so many Big Ten schools are more highly ranked than Ohio State.


Ohio state sucks:
--ImageRemoved--



+ extraordinarily arbitrary and large number




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