help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Considering the facts, pick one:

GWU
5
5%
Texas
32
31%
Michigan
67
64%
 
Total votes: 104

zanyventer
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help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby zanyventer » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:40 am

ok so here are the facts:
- i'm a texas resident, so i get the resident tuition
- i want to practice in dc (#1 choice by far) or texas (houston/dallas/austin) after graduation
- i'd eventually want to move back to texas later in my career
- my so is in dc
- i already have H ug on my resume
- i have a couple of years of work experience in a hot field
- yes, i want to make craploads of money but i don't want to rack up unnecessary debt in the process
- assuming no scholarships and all loans, i would be in the hole $129k for Texas, $191k for Mich, and $211k for GWU

knowing all this, where should i go? and reasons, please. "anna ivey says go t14 or else" doesn't count. thanks!
Last edited by zanyventer on Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

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vale1rd
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby vale1rd » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:43 am

Michigan

zanyventer
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby zanyventer » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:00 am

vale1rd wrote:Michigan

wow, that was helpful.

PoliticalJunkie
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby PoliticalJunkie » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:03 am

GWU places better than any of the others you listed in DC big law.. Mich wil give you a shot with the ranking, but being in DC for LS would help you tremendously.

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Joga Bonito
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby Joga Bonito » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:05 am

hmmm....Michigan

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thesealocust
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:11 am

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby AngryAvocado » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:50 am

U-Mich. I was expecting big money at GWU and/or Texas for this to be even a close call.

Also, Harvard UG and prior work experience aren't game changers. You'll still need to graduate near the top of your class at UT or GWU to have a good shot at DC biglaw, whereas Michigan would be significantly more forgiving.

showNprove
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby showNprove » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:58 am

From my understanding, UT places well in NYC, but less well in DC.

I would go with Michigan for several reasons:

1) The difference in debt isn't enough to warrant giving up the range of opportunities available from Michigan.

2) Michigan will place much better in DC.

3) If Michigan is anything like Virginia, TX firms will be knocking at your door to get a Michigan grad with TX connections (assuming you are personable and not incompetent).

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im_blue
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby im_blue » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:28 am

vale1rd wrote:Michigan

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NayBoer
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby NayBoer » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:37 am

i want to practice in dc (#1 choice by far)
mich

or texas (houston/dallas/austin) after graduation
texas

i'd eventually want to move back to texas later in my career
texas

my so is in dc
gw

- i already have H ug on my resume
- i have a couple of years of work experience in a hot field
doesn't matter

- yes, i want to make craploads of money but i don't want to rack up unnecessary debt in the process
- assuming no scholarships and all loans, i would be in the hole $129k for Texas, $191k for Mich, and $211k for GWU
texas

knowing all this, where should i go?
michigan

However, DC market supposedly saturated. Probably have an easier time in Texas, as long as you're willing to stay there after 3L.

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FunkyJD
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby FunkyJD » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:05 am

I vote Texas. UT has a good alumni network in DC. Michigan's is better, but UT's isn't terrible. Hillary Clinton's current number 2 at the state department, a Yale JD, is also the most recent former dean of the LBJ School at UT, for instance. There are others in DC, at high and low levels, and there are networking events in DC. Network wisely and actively (e.g., get to know law profs with DC experience, and become friends with the LBJers who sit in on law classes, who in turn, may well want to network with you), do well in your classes, and you'll be fine in DC as a UT law student, IMO. I don't believe the difference is worth paying $62k extra for.

Michigan JD is definitely excellent, nationally portable, yes, but are the benefits of a Mich JD -- for someone who knows he wants to return to Texas for sure -- worth paying thousands extra for a Mich JD, and giving up Austin to live in Ann Arbor for three years? Already having some connections to Texas would help some if you decided to go to Mich and come back ... but unless you just absolutely have to maximize your chances for Biglaw to the nth little percent, in your particular situation, I'd say The Eyes of Texas are upon you.
Last edited by FunkyJD on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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burtonrideclub
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby burtonrideclub » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:09 am

How does your SO feel about you going to UT for 3 years?

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nealric
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby nealric » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:00 am

GWU places better than any of the others you listed in DC big law.. Mich wil give you a shot with the ranking, but being in DC for LS would help you tremendously.


--ImageRemoved--


Unless you are planning on getting married soon (as in before school starts), go to Michigan. It will place better in BOTH DC and Texas.
Did you apply to GULC?

zanyventer
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby zanyventer » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:37 pm

burtonrideclub wrote:How does your SO feel about you going to UT for 3 years?


my so is from texas. thanks FunkyJD for a well-reasoned answer. anyone else care to play devil's advocate for texas or gw?

umichgrad
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby umichgrad » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:40 pm

Michigan's alumni network in DC is Huh-Yooooooge.

and it's a better school.

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tallboone
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby tallboone » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:44 pm

Go to texas. Do well, find a job in D.C. Don't do as well, find a job in Texas. But be warned...--LinkRemoved--

also, if the significant other is that significant, wouldn't she be willing to move to austin for a few years?

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AngryAvocado
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby AngryAvocado » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:04 pm

zanyventer wrote:
burtonrideclub wrote:How does your SO feel about you going to UT for 3 years?


my so is from texas. thanks FunkyJD for a well-reasoned answer. anyone else care to play devil's advocate for texas or gw?


Sounds like you're just waiting to hear what you want to hear, which is not "Michigan." If you really feel like attending GWU or Texas over Michigan, then do it. Nobody can step into your shoes and know what your relationship with your SO is like, or whether you'd be happy in Texas for the rest of your career, or whatever personal reasons might exist that would make you lean towards one of the lower ranked schools.

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adameus
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby adameus » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:11 pm

I think you should try to stay at Harvard...

zanyventer
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby zanyventer » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:57 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
zanyventer wrote:
burtonrideclub wrote:How does your SO feel about you going to UT for 3 years?


my so is from texas. thanks FunkyJD for a well-reasoned answer. anyone else care to play devil's advocate for texas or gw?


Sounds like you're just waiting to hear what you want to hear, which is not "Michigan." If you really feel like attending GWU or Texas over Michigan, then do it. Nobody can step into your shoes and know what your relationship with your SO is like, or whether you'd be happy in Texas for the rest of your career, or whatever personal reasons might exist that would make you lean towards one of the lower ranked schools.


well that's true. i do want to hear "not michigan," but not because i have already made up my mind one way or another. right now i am at a point where, like most people on tls, i would probably choose the top 10 school just because it's top 10. besides the ranking, i do not know all the factors that should i should consider when making my law school choice, so i appreciate when people make arguments for and/or against any of these schools. since most of the posts have been in favor of michigan, i'd like to hear more from the other side.

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thesealocust
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby thesealocust » Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:49 pm

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blueberrymuffin
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby blueberrymuffin » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:27 pm

I voted UT, but it's really a hard call without knowing absolutely everything. Somebody else asked if you were planning marriage, or at least how "significant" is your significant other. Can they move to where you are, or are they restricted to DC for the next 3 years? I am married, and whether or not my husband can find work by the school is a major factor in my decision.
If you definitely see yourself ending up in Texas, I vote UT. Plus Austin is great and I love Texas (have lived in Houston). Any firm in Texas should appreciate a UT education- you don't need to go to Michigan to be competitive. Additionally, cost of living is cheaper, skies are sunnier- and if your "so" can move out there, no income tax (assuming they are working?)! UT was really way up on my list, but they rejected me almost immediately back in early November. :( I've since been accepted into Michigan and GWU, but I am still sad about UT.... I would have loved to go to school there.

However, if you are not too certain about whether you will end up in Texas, I would consider others' suggestions of Michigan. And if your so can't move and it's really important for you both to stay together.... of course that could sway you toward GWU. Esp if you are thinking IP law (did you say what you wanted to study?).

vyelps
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby vyelps » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:39 pm

thesealocust wrote:
zanyventer wrote:Since most of the posts have been in favor of michigan, i'd like to hear more from the other side.


Fuck the other side. This is law school, not band camp. You're about to take out 6 figures in loans and spending 3 years to obtain a professional education. That education will be an anchor, a parachute, a rocket - or something in between. The choice is that important.

There is only one reason to go to law school: To obtain legal employment. That's it. Period. It's not a vacation with your SO, it's not a time to find yourself. It's 3 years that opens or shuts doors for 3 decades.

Texas, Michigan, and GW are fabulous law schools. But one is more fabulous than the rest. What exactly does that mean?

At the top of your class at any school, you will obtain employment - probably anywhere you want. The top of Michigan could turn into the most elite firms or prestigious clerkships. Even teaching law wouldn't be foreclosed to you. The top of the class at GW or Texas might or might not present such opportunities, but it would definitely be harder.

Where the equation really points towards Michigan is if you finish median or below. The market sucks, but even in good years neither texas nor GW could reliably place their median graduates into big firm jobs. It's even worse now. And I've just survived a semester of law school - everybody wants to do well, and everybody pours more of their heart and soul into the endeavor than is probably healthy. You can't count on being the top of your class.

If you made this decision 100 times, you would certainly find ways to have a successful and happy career out of GW or Texas. But the weight of the evidence suggests your odds are highest - by a substantial margin - out of Michigan.

It's not just 'rankings'. The top 14 law schools are the top 14 because they kick the crap out of the rest in legal employment. U.S. News can't say the same thing about its college rankings, but for law school there really is something to be said at least about the broad tiers of law schools. Everyone in the legal world knows Michigan >>> Texas or GW. Everyone.

What else do you need to know?

Sources Cited:

Firm placement: http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf (outdated, but the relative placement numbers should still be useful)

Career services websites for each of the three schools

Clerkship placement: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75513

Websites for big firms in DC (seriously, check them). You'll often see more GW grads than Michigan or Texas grads - check the respective credentials and the difference should be more obvious.

Being in law school, talking to 2Ls going through recruiting either at the schools your considering or schools at various similar ranks


TITCR- I'm a 1L at Michigan and have friends at both Texas and GW. If 1L hiring is any indication, median level Michigan students have a lot better chance at getting the types of jobs that OP is looking for than are median students elsewhere. I've been going through interviews and recruiting and I can truly say that employers in a lot of markets were giddy to see a Michigan law student. No offense to OP but having H undergrad does 0 for you right now. It may help on the margins but nobody gives a shit anymore. The work experience you have could be a game changer though depending on what it is. I'll suggest what a few others have suggested- prioritize your career goals and then see which school helps you get there assuming you are at the median. It isnt wise to assume that you'll go to a lower ranked school and own up there.

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im_blue
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby im_blue » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:54 am

The bottom line is that Michigan is certainly worth $62k more than Texas, and GWU shouldn't even be in the equation. If you're worried about the SO, you can fly DTW-DCA for about $250. It's a 1.5-hour flight so you could probably do this every 2-3 weekends. You could even spend 3L as a visiting student at GULC or GWU, so you're really only away for 18 months (2 x 9 months).

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FunkyJD
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby FunkyJD » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:37 am

If you have to have biglaw in DC, pay the premium and go with Michigan.

If you want to have a decent shot at biglaw in DC, but would be okay with a good government gig in DC, and still be as competitive as anyone for biglaw in Texas, while saving $62k, go with Texas.

[strike]GWU[/strike]

Screw Michigan, save that $62k to go towards a house or condo in Austin. With all due respect to the Blue. :twisted:

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nealric
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Re: help me choose (michigan v texas v gwu)

Postby nealric » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:04 am

If you want to have a decent shot at biglaw in DC, but would be okay with a good government gig in DC, and still be as competitive as anyone for biglaw in Texas


Lol at the idea that you can just waltz into a "good government gig" in DC from UT.




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