Stanford v. Harvard?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:18 pm

bahama wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:I mostly agree, though. I had a professor who was Stanford UG and Harvard Phd who told me that Stanford produces people who make things and Harvard produces people who try to find ways to make money off of the people making things.


Aren't lawyers people who find ways to make money off of the people making things?


True, but at least at Stanford you get to be around people making shit like this: http://videolectures.net/aaai08_hoffmann_starmac/

(Picture that commercialized with missiles and shit).

ViP
Posts: 419
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:53 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby ViP » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:19 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:ITE, HLS over SLS for me

cali's economy is horrible right now. and as a personal choice, i actually prefer a large class size broken down into smaller sections. more classes to choose from, and ive never been a fan of a small group kind of feel haha, just me.

tho id love SLS weather over HLS weather, i feel HLS will be more competitive, which is actually a plus for me lol.

i also had a professor who went to stanford UG and Harvard and made an interesting distinction. stanford is full of really smart ppl, but harvard is full of intellectuals. lol it made an impression on me.


If such a distinction really exists, that's just one more reason for me to choose Stanford over Harvard. I just don't see law school as a place for so-called intellectuals.

Plus, I would much rather spend a few years socializing and surrounding myself with "really smart people" than with "intellectuals."

Oh... and +1,000,000 to those who have noted the personality traits of the average Harvard grad vs. those of the average Stanford grad.

EDIT: (braces for onslaught by self-proclaimed intellectuals)

User avatar
Dignan
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby Dignan » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:47 pm

This thread has, as anyone could have predicted, descended into a big stereotype fest. I feel dirty for participating, but I'll add my two cents.

When I think of intellectualism and law schools, the first two institutions that come to mind are Yale and Chicago. I think of Harvard as being a step behind, grouped with Stanford (and maybe even with Berkeley and NYU). Although I'm sure that Harvard has its fair share of intellectuals, I think it's got too much of a big law emphasis to keep pace with the more academically-oriented Yale and Chicago.

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby DoubleChecks » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:32 pm

ViP wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:ITE, HLS over SLS for me

cali's economy is horrible right now. and as a personal choice, i actually prefer a large class size broken down into smaller sections. more classes to choose from, and ive never been a fan of a small group kind of feel haha, just me.

tho id love SLS weather over HLS weather, i feel HLS will be more competitive, which is actually a plus for me lol.

i also had a professor who went to stanford UG and Harvard and made an interesting distinction. stanford is full of really smart ppl, but harvard is full of intellectuals. lol it made an impression on me.


If such a distinction really exists, that's just one more reason for me to choose Stanford over Harvard. I just don't see law school as a place for so-called intellectuals.

Plus, I would much rather spend a few years socializing and surrounding myself with "really smart people" than with "intellectuals."

Oh... and +1,000,000 to those who have noted the personality traits of the average Harvard grad vs. those of the average Stanford grad.

EDIT: (braces for onslaught by self-proclaimed intellectuals)


haha just noting something a professor mentioned to me once. i dont know if it is true or not.

and of course, some ppl may prefer being surrounded by really smart people (who wouldnt?), but others prefer a slightly different environment

you ever have that friend who is really smart but they dont keep up w/ current events, dont have any deep or philosophical conversations, yet are clearly extremely intelligent? thats how i picture stanford to be, although i am almost 100% sure this is NOT how SLS students are OR how its general atmosphere is. i never claimed, however, that i (or any human for that matter) can always think rationally, so this personal bias has already formed for me lol.

regardless, i would not choose HLS over SLS for the above reason. thats more of a personal peeve that probably isnt even true, something easy to shrug off in the big picture of things. but there are just other things that make HLS a good fit for certain candidates, ironically for the exact opposite reasons why others prefer SLS haha, i.e. liking the small class size. and seriously, california ITE is scaring me haha.

User avatar
Dignan
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby Dignan » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:09 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:regardless, i would not choose HLS over SLS for the above reason. thats more of a personal peeve that probably isnt even true, something easy to shrug off in the big picture of things. but there are just other things that make HLS a good fit for certain candidates, ironically for the exact opposite reasons why others prefer SLS haha, i.e. liking the small class size. and seriously, california ITE is scaring me haha.

Both SLS and HLS grads have very mobile degrees, so I don't think there's a reason to get too hung up on the condition of the economy in the region of either law school. But if that is a consideration for you, I would be just as concerned about Harvard. The recession has hit the Northeast and NYC just as hard as it's hit California. True, the budget of the state of California is in particularly bad shape (though the budgets of many of the Northeast states aren't faring much better), but the state budget is unlikely to have a significant impact on the jobs you would get coming out of school.

If we're talking about the long-term health of the private sector, I'd be more worried about the Northeast than Northern California. The Northeast is heavily dependent on the financial sector; Norcal is heavily dependent on the tech sector. If the dollar ever stops being the world's de facto currency, then the economy of the Northeast collapses, and many law jobs will disappear. Long-term, I have more confidence in the tech sector than the financial sector.

It makes sense to worry about the future of jobs in the law, but it's not clear to me that long-term prospects in California will be worse than in the Northeast.

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby DoubleChecks » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:18 pm

Dignan wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:regardless, i would not choose HLS over SLS for the above reason. thats more of a personal peeve that probably isnt even true, something easy to shrug off in the big picture of things. but there are just other things that make HLS a good fit for certain candidates, ironically for the exact opposite reasons why others prefer SLS haha, i.e. liking the small class size. and seriously, california ITE is scaring me haha.

Both SLS and HLS grads have very mobile degrees, so I don't think there's a reason to get too hung up on the condition of the economy in the region of either law school. But if that is a consideration for you, I would be just as concerned about Harvard. The recession has hit the Northeast and NYC just as hard as it's hit California. True, the budget of the state of California is in particularly bad shape (though the budgets of many of the Northeast states aren't faring much better), but the state budget is unlikely to have a significant impact on the jobs you would get coming out of school.

If we're talking about the long-term health of the private sector, I'd be more worried about the Northeast than Northern California. The Northeast is heavily dependent on the financial sector; Norcal is heavily dependent on the tech sector. If the dollar ever stops being the world's de facto currency, then the economy of the Northeast collapses, and many law jobs will disappear. Long-term, I have more confidence in the tech sector than the financial sector.

It makes sense to worry about the future of jobs in the law, but it's not clear to me that long-term prospects in California will be worse than in the Northeast.


sorry, wasnt even specifically comparing it to the northeast. HLS degree just seems more mobile than SLS degree, and i mean that on a national level. from an overall perspective, would you say HLS is less or more mobile than SLS?

golodreal
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:16 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby golodreal » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:23 pm

If you want to eventually end up on the East Coast, is it more beneficial to have the Stanford degree (the reason being that you would stand out against the flood of Harvard applicants)? Another way of putting it: because of the smaller class size, do Stanford grads compete against fewer people for the same clerkships, jobs, etc. or are the grads from all the top schools just thrown together in competing for jobs anyways?

User avatar
Dignan
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby Dignan » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:28 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:sorry, wasnt even specifically comparing it to the northeast. HLS degree just seems more mobile than SLS degree, and i mean that on a national level. from an overall perspective, would you say HLS is less or more mobile than SLS?

The conventional wisdom is that a degree from HLS will give you slightly more mobility than a degree from SLS, but I don't know enough to say if that's true. There are a lot more HLS grads around than SLS grads, which gives HLS the advantage with respect to alumni networking (lots of HLS grads around the country hiring other HLS grads) and SLS the advantage with respect to uniqueness (lots of law firms around the country that don't have a SLS grad but would like one).

toaster2
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 11:55 am

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby toaster2 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:40 pm

.
Last edited by toaster2 on Tue May 25, 2010 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby rayiner » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:05 pm

You ever have that friend who is really smart but they dont keep up w/ current events, dont have any deep or philosophical conversations, yet are clearly extremely intelligent?


Most engineers I know are like this. They're too busy with the real world to care about politics or philosophy.

User avatar
englawyer
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:57 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby englawyer » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:08 pm

toaster2 wrote:
Dignan wrote:I'd be more worried about the Northeast than Northern California. The Northeast is heavily dependent on the financial sector; Norcal is heavily dependent on the tech sector. If the dollar ever stops being the world's de facto currency, then the economy of the Northeast collapses, and many law jobs will disappear. Long-term, I have more confidence in the tech sector than the financial sector.


risk of the dollar ceasing to be the world's reserve currency vs. the risk of china outpacing the u.s. in technological development and innovation...


tech also has a number of other risks. for example, check out all the engineers on this board in/applying to law school :o . or the fact that at top engineering schools students gun for wall st. instead of large tech companies... engineering needs a major image/respect/compensation revamp if the US wants to stay competitive. it is absolutely ludicrous that the person acting as a middleman between the inventor and the patent office makes more $ than the inventor lol.

User avatar
DoubleChecks
Posts: 2333
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby DoubleChecks » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:38 pm

lol good thing im chinese american and am fluent in mandarin; could always get sent to china :P

what im really worried about, and im serious here (reading too many books like One Second Later), is how useless a JD is in a post-apocalyptic world. i mean, when towns or government underground facilities are letting in "necessary" skilled ppl, i feel like lawyers would be on the bottom of the list

anyone know of any skills that are crucial yet easy to pick up as a side hobby? you know, just in case :P

User avatar
joshikousei
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby joshikousei » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:18 am

nursing. :P


this was a difficult decision for me. in terms of campus feel, colleagues, class size, i would have chosen stanford. but i'm too connected to the east coast (relationships, alma mater, etc.), and so realistically would have chosen harvard.

but the fact that 50% of the class at harvard was straight from undergrad really bothered me. part of the several reasons why i'm not going there.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby rayiner » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:20 am

joshikousei wrote:nursing. :P


this was a difficult decision for me. in terms of campus feel, colleagues, class size, i would have chosen stanford. but i'm too connected to the east coast (relationships, alma mater, etc.), and so realistically would have chosen harvard.

but the fact that 50% of the class at harvard was straight from undergrad really bothered me. part of the several reasons why i'm not going there.


The major one being that you got into the Y-bomb?

User avatar
joshikousei
Posts: 190
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:38 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby joshikousei » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:24 am

rayiner wrote:
joshikousei wrote:nursing. :P


this was a difficult decision for me. in terms of campus feel, colleagues, class size, i would have chosen stanford. but i'm too connected to the east coast (relationships, alma mater, etc.), and so realistically would have chosen harvard.

but the fact that 50% of the class at harvard was straight from undergrad really bothered me. part of the several reasons why i'm not going there.


The major one being that you got into the Y-bomb?


i'm sorry i missed you in nyc too. :P

User avatar
James Bond
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby James Bond » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:27 am

Dignan wrote:This thread has, as anyone could have predicted, descended into a big stereotype fest. I feel dirty for participating, but I'll add my two cents.

When I think of intellectualism and law schools, the first two institutions that come to mind are Yale and Chicago.
I think of Harvard as being a step behind, grouped with Stanford (and maybe even with Berkeley and NYU). Although I'm sure that Harvard has its fair share of intellectuals, I think it's got too much of a big law emphasis to keep pace with the more academically-oriented Yale and Chicago.


Epic, EPIC flame

User avatar
James Bond
Posts: 2349
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 12:53 am

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby James Bond » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:27 am

rayiner wrote:
You ever have that friend who is really smart but they dont keep up w/ current events, dont have any deep or philosophical conversations, yet are clearly extremely intelligent?


Most engineers I know are like this. They're too busy with the real world to care about politics or philosophy.


Pssh, they simply don't have the social skills to have "conversations"

User avatar
Dignan
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:52 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby Dignan » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:53 am

biv0ns wrote:
Dignan wrote:This thread has, as anyone could have predicted, descended into a big stereotype fest. I feel dirty for participating, but I'll add my two cents.

When I think of intellectualism and law schools, the first two institutions that come to mind are Yale and Chicago.
I think of Harvard as being a step behind, grouped with Stanford (and maybe even with Berkeley and NYU). Although I'm sure that Harvard has its fair share of intellectuals, I think it's got too much of a big law emphasis to keep pace with the more academically-oriented Yale and Chicago.


Epic, EPIC flame

Nah. If it were truly an EPIC flame, it would have solicited 40 responses within an hour, and then the thread would have been promptly locked by a UVA 1L moderator who claimed that the discussion was inappropriate but who was really just offended by the implication that UVA is less intellectual than Berkeley and NYU.

4910
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby 4910 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:56 am

what i would give to be able to even have the option of debating which of these two schools is better

User avatar
crackberry
Posts: 3252
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby crackberry » Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:28 am

ITT: TLS takes a shocking break from HLS love-fest to show SLS some love of its own.

I approve.

User avatar
kazu
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby kazu » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:18 am

I'd pick Harvard as well... just because I'm a prestige whore.

Oh, and also because I have no interest in IP law whatsoever, and Harvard has more international recognition.

And I actually like having 4 seasons.

bahama
Posts: 145
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:23 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby bahama » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:49 am

I wouldn't give the stereotypes discussed here much weight. I've heard these stereotypes about undergrads from both places which makes me wonder if people aren't just projecting these on the law students. Both places are diverse enough you can find people you like and there is no reason you have to limit your social life to law students. If this is really a concern for you talk to as many present students at each school and visit if you can to make up your own mind.

So what does this leave you with:
- location/climate (includes proximity to family/friends, urban vs suburban etc)
- large vs small law school
- any highly specific areas one school might have an edge in
- money (unlikely to be very different)

CordeliusX
Posts: 251
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:48 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby CordeliusX » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:35 pm

Im curious what non-law opportunities await H and S grads, either immediately after or in the near-future after grad. I'm going to assume some financial jobs await both (HLS more?) and that both grads can find their way into consulting, finance, etc. after some years in firms.

Any input on this?

User avatar
kittenmittons
Posts: 1453
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 1:24 pm

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby kittenmittons » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:36 pm

Stanford

User avatar
clevinger33
Posts: 142
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:48 am

Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby clevinger33 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:53 pm

Yale.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests