Stanford v. Harvard?

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merichard87
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby merichard87 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:58 pm

I'll be honest and say that I would go HLS because I'm URM and the prestige of saying I went to Hahhvuuud (you have to say it like that) would be worth it to me. But shit they are both great schools.

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skynet
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby skynet » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:21 pm

ConMan345 wrote:I know I'll be back to the Bay Area eventually, but I need a change. Harvard, here I come! :D

Congrats on the decision! See you there, maybe! or maybe not!

nicdmx
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby nicdmx » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:44 pm

skynet wrote:Yeah, came out of the weekend realizing that I had been leaning towards Harvard going in. I came to that realization when I came out leaning towards Stanford. I'm flying up to Boston this weekend for work and chatting w a few HLS students. Hopefully that will help settle things a bit.

This week I have had emails from Larry Kramer, who is trying to get me in touch with this interesting non-profit in Palo Alto, and I have had like 20 emails w staff and students from sls. The personality issue that a lot of people use to distinguish the schools really seems like a myth to me, although lots of my friends say they know lots of unhappy hls people and no one has ever heard of an unhappy sls person, apparently.

Anyone know how hls stands vs. sls on cleantech?


Hey skynet, I'm interested in cleantech as well and making the same tough choice. I was leaning towards Harvard originally too but now am totally undecided, but slightly leaning towards Stanford. I'm interested in IP, Environmental, and Administrative law and these fields mix strengths between the two schools. Harvard actually has some professors I'd be really interested in working with (Freeman, Lessig), but I'm not sure how easy it will be to get to know them given the size of the school. Faculty at SLS seemed very approachable. Forming relationships with faculty will be very important to finding clerkships, and I was impressed that the career services lady said that over 90% of people who want clerkships at SLS get them. I think I heard this stat at HLS, but I don't remember what it was and I don't remember it being so high.

I also like the quarter system at Stanford. The breadth of my legal interests are pretty large and the ability to take more electives seems like a good thing.

The alumni network thing cuts both ways as well. True, the HSL alumni network is big and powerful. However the SLS alumni network is small, but potentially more committed to the school? SLS grads are in limited supply, and I wonder if this will help get elite jobs on the east coast given that firms like to hire from all the different schools?

Anyway, lots to think about. I'm curious what your take is on some of these points.

Kretzy
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby Kretzy » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:46 pm

ConMan345 wrote:I know I'll be back to the Bay Area eventually, but I need a change. Harvard, here I come! :D


Congrats ConMan! It sounds like that's the right decision for you :)

Lysis
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby Lysis » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:56 pm

I'm also now leaning towards Harvard after doing further research today. I loved Stanford, but I just think the resources at Harvard (particularly the Kennedy School and political science department) are too tempting to pass up for someone with my interests.

If I haven't changed my mind by Monday (big if!), I'm going to send in my deposit.

Edit: typo

smashedpumpkins
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby smashedpumpkins » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:00 pm

nicdmx wrote: Forming relationships with faculty will be very important to finding clerkships, and I was impressed that the career services lady said that over 90% of people who want clerkships at SLS get them. I think I heard this stat at HLS, but I don't remember what it was and I don't remember it being so high.


The Harvard stat was 70%.

I'm not convinced that either number (70% or 90%) is really that great - the "of those that want them" is a pretty big modifier, since I imagine that people know how competitive they are and make decisions accordingly.

nicdmx
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby nicdmx » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:25 pm

smashedpumpkins wrote:
nicdmx wrote: Forming relationships with faculty will be very important to finding clerkships, and I was impressed that the career services lady said that over 90% of people who want clerkships at SLS get them. I think I heard this stat at HLS, but I don't remember what it was and I don't remember it being so high.


The Harvard stat was 70%.

I'm not convinced that either number (70% or 90%) is really that great - the "of those that want them" is a pretty big modifier, since I imagine that people know how competitive they are and make decisions accordingly.



That sounds right, I was thinking it was around 70%. Your points about self selection is a good one, but I would think the percent of people at either school who rule themselves out due to perceived lack of competitiveness is approximately equal. That being said, 90%+ vs. 70% seems like something to consider.

legends159
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby legends159 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:32 pm

smashedpumpkins wrote: the "of those that want them" is a pretty big modifier, since I imagine that people know how competitive they are and make decisions accordingly.


Agreed. While I know a lot of SLS'er in my year that want to do a clerkship, I also know a lot that don't see it as worthwhile b/c they want to go into transactional work or they're a little older and can't afford the one year pay cut.

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skynet
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby skynet » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:52 pm

nicdmx wrote:
skynet wrote:Yeah, came out of the weekend realizing that I had been leaning towards Harvard going in. I came to that realization when I came out leaning towards Stanford. I'm flying up to Boston this weekend for work and chatting w a few HLS students. Hopefully that will help settle things a bit.

This week I have had emails from Larry Kramer, who is trying to get me in touch with this interesting non-profit in Palo Alto, and I have had like 20 emails w staff and students from sls. The personality issue that a lot of people use to distinguish the schools really seems like a myth to me, although lots of my friends say they know lots of unhappy hls people and no one has ever heard of an unhappy sls person, apparently.

Anyone know how hls stands vs. sls on cleantech?


Hey skynet, I'm interested in cleantech as well and making the same tough choice. I was leaning towards Harvard originally too but now am totally undecided, but slightly leaning towards Stanford. I'm interested in IP, Environmental, and Administrative law and these fields mix strengths between the two schools. Harvard actually has some professors I'd be really interested in working with (Freeman, Lessig), but I'm not sure how easy it will be to get to know them given the size of the school. Faculty at SLS seemed very approachable. Forming relationships with faculty will be very important to finding clerkships, and I was impressed that the career services lady said that over 90% of people who want clerkships at SLS get them. I think I heard this stat at HLS, but I don't remember what it was and I don't remember it being so high.

I also like the quarter system at Stanford. The breadth of my legal interests are pretty large and the ability to take more electives seems like a good thing.

The alumni network thing cuts both ways as well. True, the HSL alumni network is big and powerful. However the SLS alumni network is small, but potentially more committed to the school? SLS grads are in limited supply, and I wonder if this will help get elite jobs on the east coast given that firms like to hire from all the different schools?

Anyway, lots to think about. I'm curious what your take is on some of these points.


From everyone I've talked to, getting personal connections to prof's at HLS is not really any harder than at SLS, provided that you actually talk to them. Apparently lots of people just want to get their grades and move on. I regard this as sort of a wash. Ditto with the alumni connections. I also heard that SLS has equally good clerkship placements (like 40% of students go into non-firm work right after grad, and a fair number of those people are clerks).

The quarter system is a pretty huge thing for me, too, especially when you consider how it comes coupled with the expectation that you will definitely take classes outside of the law school. I talked to a 2L at HLS today who is doing a lot of inter-disciplinary stuff, including stuff at MIT, and it sounds like he did not find it hard to do/did not encounter a lot of obstacles, but it was also something that he had to go out of his way for. I get the impression that the path is cleared for you more at SLS.

Re: cleantech, SLS has bigtime connections with the biggest cleantech companies in the world (like Google.org) and there are a ot of chances to work with the other people in the University who are doing cutting edge stuff there. At HLS, you get similar connections to MIT people, and Mass. is, I think, a big state for cleantech, but nothing (in the world, really) comes close to California for that industry.

One other thing in SLS's favor for enviro peeps is that their enviro clinic is actually a student practice group, so you effectively are an environmental lawyer for the quarter, which sounds pretty amazing. Apparently there was recently a student who (as a 2L, I think) did the oral arguments in a 9th circuit case. (!!!)

---
OK, wow. I guess this means I am leaning towards SLS. Writing brings clarity.
---
Pro-HLS retort: Gerry Frug's Green Cities course/clinic sounds unbelievably amazing, and doing urban planning courses (or a degree) at HLS Grad School of Design is also a pretty incredible opportunity.

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skynet
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby skynet » Sat May 01, 2010 6:34 pm

Finally settled this ridiculously hard question: Stanford!!

Lots of factors here, but ultimately, a few personal factors plus the amazing joint degree opportunities at SLS trumped the many, many great things HLS has going for it.

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20160810
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby 20160810 » Sat May 01, 2010 6:38 pm

Weather in Palo Alto v. weather in Mass.

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skynet
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby skynet » Sat May 01, 2010 6:40 pm

SoftBoiledLife wrote:Weather in Palo Alto v. weather in Mass.

Weirdly, I kind of picked Stanford despite the weather. I really like East Coast ridiculous weather.

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LawLucy
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby LawLucy » Sat May 01, 2010 7:25 pm

zanyventer wrote:
treple wrote:HLS students are very different from Harvard undergrads with regard to general douchbaggery.


Harvard UG here. I'd say all the biggest douchebags from all over the country go to HLS to practice the highest form of douchebaggery.



+1000
my poor friend married a Harvard MBA...POS couldn't keep it in his pants, cheated on her multiple times. When she finally divorced him after 16 yrs of that shit, he arrogantly told her she would 'never get a harvard grad again' (w-t-f?!)
douchebaggery taken to a whole new level

d34d9823
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby d34d9823 » Sat May 01, 2010 8:07 pm

.
Last edited by d34d9823 on Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

d34d9823
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby d34d9823 » Sat May 01, 2010 8:09 pm

nicdmx wrote:
smashedpumpkins wrote:
nicdmx wrote: Forming relationships with faculty will be very important to finding clerkships, and I was impressed that the career services lady said that over 90% of people who want clerkships at SLS get them. I think I heard this stat at HLS, but I don't remember what it was and I don't remember it being so high.


The Harvard stat was 70%.

I'm not convinced that either number (70% or 90%) is really that great - the "of those that want them" is a pretty big modifier, since I imagine that people know how competitive they are and make decisions accordingly.



That sounds right, I was thinking it was around 70%. Your points about self selection is a good one, but I would think the percent of people at either school who rule themselves out due to perceived lack of competitiveness is approximately equal. That being said, 90%+ vs. 70% seems like something to consider.


Is this just CoA or all clerkships? Nothing against District etc., but if Stanford and Harvard can't place 100% of their class in lower clerkships, something's wrong.

legends159
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby legends159 » Sat May 01, 2010 9:20 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:Is this just CoA or all clerkships? Nothing against District etc., but if Stanford and Harvard can't place 100% of their class in lower clerkships, something's wrong.


LMAO. Any federal clerkship is hard to get period. No school places 100% in federal clerkships. And the 70% number is as high as it is b/c people know after their first year whether they have the grades to even bother applying and those who don't self-select out.

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kenson
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby kenson » Sun May 02, 2010 12:26 am

When your significant other finds out you chose S over H:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU9JoFKlaZ0#t=03m05s

Just kidding.

Someone mentioned how Romney went to H law earlier, but didn't he also attend Stanford during undergrad for a bit?

motiontodismiss
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby motiontodismiss » Sun May 02, 2010 11:15 am

This is a hard one.

Harvard, on the one hand, is on the east coast, but Harvard has a greater share of douchbags than Stanford.

Stanford, on the one hand, is equally a great school, but it's in Northern California.

I'd go with Harvard just because I hate the west coast. Not that I like the east coast (I'm sick of the prestige whore east coast attitude too-especially the NYC brand of east coast prestige whore attitude-a lot of NYers act like the country west of the Hudson is some third world country or sth), but I still like the east coast better. Plus Bostonians aren't pretentious. They tell it like it is. In this age of PC-ness, I like that quality in people.

Combine this with CA bouncing in and out of bankruptcy, and the CA economy on life support, and Harvard seems like a win, this is coming from someone who's more interested in the midwest than the east coast. However a full ride at Chicago is probably enough to convince me away from Harvard.

Screw the financial/tech sectors. Industrials/energy sectors FTW (yes, they're not as "sexy" or "cool" but they don't have the severe ups and downs that finance/tech do)

btw I think the next big thing's going to be big pharma/biotech.

d34d9823
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby d34d9823 » Sun May 02, 2010 7:15 pm

legends159 wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:Is this just CoA or all clerkships? Nothing against District etc., but if Stanford and Harvard can't place 100% of their class in lower clerkships, something's wrong.


LMAO. Any federal clerkship is hard to get period. No school places 100% in federal clerkships. And the 70% number is as high as it is b/c people know after their first year whether they have the grades to even bother applying and those who don't self-select out.


It's always great when I say stuff while having no clue what I'm talking about :P

I had heard that District clerkships were doable with ~3.2s from Penn/Michigan/Boalt. Given that, you would think that HYS could place their whole class. Is this not the case?

legends159
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Re: Stanford v. Harvard?

Postby legends159 » Sun May 02, 2010 8:00 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
legends159 wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:Is this just CoA or all clerkships? Nothing against District etc., but if Stanford and Harvard can't place 100% of their class in lower clerkships, something's wrong.


LMAO. Any federal clerkship is hard to get period. No school places 100% in federal clerkships. And the 70% number is as high as it is b/c people know after their first year whether they have the grades to even bother applying and those who don't self-select out.


It's always great when I say stuff while having no clue what I'm talking about :P

I had heard that District clerkships were doable with ~3.2s from Penn/Michigan/Boalt. Given that, you would think that HYS could place their whole class. Is this not the case?


Doable might be an outlier case. What is 3.2 in terms of class rank in Penn/Mich? Boalt doesn't have numerical GPA so that's not the case.

You may have also heard that information before this economy. Clerkship apps have skyrocketed b/c of the economy as people who would've went straight to their firm jobs have been deferred and are scrambling to pick up clerkships.

It also depends on the district. Maybe if you're willing to do a district court clerkship anywhere in the country just to get a clerkship you might be able to get something even if have straight P's from HYS. I don't know.




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