How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

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timertimer61
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How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby timertimer61 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:18 pm

ive never lived in NYC so i have no idea what perception the law community and people have there, but how do they generally regard fordham law? if you ask ordinary people, will they know its a good school? i ask b/c ive never heard of fordham before i started researching law schools because the undergraduate is relatively weaker than the law school.

another question is, how strong is the alumi network in nyc? are there a lot of fordham-grad partners working in nyc? i have heard that fordham has a strong alumni, so i was wondering, how beneficial is this?

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TTH
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby TTH » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:23 pm

Image

timertimer61
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby timertimer61 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:37 pm

Are you serious? That shit is so old and annoying now. IF all you you're going to do is post that pic or write ibos, just don't reply then. Idiot

WhyBother?
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby WhyBother? » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:52 pm

timertimer61 wrote:ive never lived in NYC so i have no idea what perception the law community and people have there, but how do they generally regard fordham law? if you ask ordinary people, will they know its a good school? i ask b/c ive never heard of fordham before i started researching law schools because the undergraduate is relatively weaker than the law school.

another question is, how strong is the alumi network in nyc? are there a lot of fordham-grad partners working in nyc? i have heard that fordham has a strong alumni, so i was wondering, how beneficial is this?


I live in the NYC area and when I told the professors who wrote my recommendations that I got into Fordham Law, they were pleasantly shocked (and I am a good student). I think it's generally very well regarded. It certainly gets a lot more respect from NJ/NY/CT residents than it does on this board. FWIW, I went to a Jesuit undergrad, so that might skew things a little bit.

itsfine
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby itsfine » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:57 pm

timertimer61 wrote:Are you serious? That shit is so old and annoying now. IF all you you're going to do is post that pic or write ibos, just don't reply then. Idiot


relax a bit? maybe your the idiot for writing in a forum and expecting only serious genuine perfect answers. your on tls, that stuff will happen. chill.


as far as fordham goes, obviously it has to compete with NYU and Columbia in the city, which is what im assuming you mean when you say ny. Cornell also places great in NYC. However, since it is such a tremendous legal market, fordham does just fine being behind those three giants....HOWEVER, ITE, itll be very interesting to see how fordham holds up....with layoffs and hiring freezes going on, fordham seems like the first school outta the top 4 NYC schools that will experience drops in employment prospects, salaries etc.(besides brooklyn, cardozo, hofstra, st. johns etc which are not on fordhams level)

Basically, Fordham's reputation really is well respected in NYC, but in a market that has NYU Col. and Cornell ahead of it, and with the state of the legal market as it is now, fordhams ability to do what it has done the past 5-6 years doesnt seem very realistic.

Sorry i cant rele speak about alumni network, but im sure someone will fill you in

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thesealocust
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:57 pm

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:00 pm

thesealocust wrote:
timertimer61 wrote:Are you serious? That shit is so old and annoying now. IF all you you're going to do is post that pic or write ibos, just don't reply then. Idiot


Image

Image

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puppleberry finn
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby puppleberry finn » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:01 pm

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Last edited by puppleberry finn on Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:03 pm

edit: never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:04 pm

thesealocust wrote:
puppins wrote:
TipTravHoot wrote:Image


this is really an excellent picture


do you know who made it originally? It's definitely excellent. The logo is impressive, I wonder if they have it on file somewhere with a clear background, or if it took a lot of photoshopping?

Oh I doubt it was photoshopped. That looks like the real deal.

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World B. Free
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby World B. Free » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:12 pm

looks legit to me too

timertimer61
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby timertimer61 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:18 pm

Image
actually, the more and more i look at it, it is beautiful =)
Image

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98234872348
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby 98234872348 » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:20 pm

Edited to add something, anything substantive:

Fordham is a good school if you graduate in the top 1/3.

hth.

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Last edited by 98234872348 on Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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of Benito Cereno
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby of Benito Cereno » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:22 pm

itsfine wrote:
timertimer61 wrote:Are you serious? That shit is so old and annoying now. IF all you you're going to do is post that pic or write ibos, just don't reply then. Idiot


relax a bit? maybe your the idiot for writing in a forum and expecting only serious genuine perfect answers. your on tls, that stuff will happen. chill.


as far as fordham goes, obviously it has to compete with NYU and Columbia in the city, which is what im assuming you mean when you say ny. Cornell also places great in NYC. However, since it is such a tremendous legal market, fordham does just fine being behind those three giants....HOWEVER, ITE, itll be very interesting to see how fordham holds up....with layoffs and hiring freezes going on, fordham seems like the first school outta the top 4 NYC schools that will experience drops in employment prospects, salaries etc.(besides brooklyn, cardozo, hofstra, st. johns etc which are not on fordhams level)

Basically, Fordham's reputation really is well respected in NYC, but in a market that has NYU Col. and Cornell ahead of it, and with the state of the legal market as it is now, fordhams ability to do what it has done the past 5-6 years doesnt seem very realistic.

Sorry i cant rele speak about alumni network, but im sure someone will fill you in



From what I've hear from family friend partners at major nyc firms, Fordham is regarded as occupying a middle position between top schools and the dozen or so shit holes they never really recruit from in the region. The NYC market gets tons of associates from "A level schools" NYU, Columbia, and Cornell, but also Duke, Chicago, Michigan, Harvard Yale, Penn. Fordham is basically regarded as a solid "B level." Clearly not on par with T14 schools but certainly a decent school that isn't laughed at, and one that produces mroe than one or two worthy graduates every year. For example, a friend who is a partner at Wachtel said that a graduate from a school like Hoftra, NY Law, Seton Hall, will need to actively convince him that they aren't third rate mediocrities. On the other hand, he said, Fordham and to a much lesser extent Cardozo, are seen as basically decent. This same partner described Fordham as a Toytota camry.

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englawyer
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby englawyer » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:54 pm

i believe at the top of its game, fordham placed around 40% in biglaw which is one of the best placement records outside the T14

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OperaSoprano
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby OperaSoprano » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:14 pm

of Benito Cereno wrote:This same partner described Fordham as a Toyota camry.


I lol'd.

Fordham is best known for its law program, thought it also has a top 20 MSW program. Benito Cereno got it right, I think. Those who hire know we are not T14 students, but to many NYC employers (at least according to the Leiter data) we are the next best thing available. The school has a vast alumni network... someone claimed that there are Fordham grads at every V100 firm, and I don't care enough about biglaw to go and verify, but that could well be true.

Although hiring is down everywhere, I think the school's location is still a huge asset. Technically, we are closer to law firms and midtown employers than either of the two giants with which we share this lovely island. In other words, it doesn't really cost employers to come visit our OCI, even if their hiring needs have dropped off. (I'm still a 1L, so I haven't yet had that super fun experience.)

The top students at Fordham are insanely smart, because there are enough people with lower T14 numbers who come here instead. Many of the 168/3.8s of the world choose to take some money here and remain in Manhattan. I am consistently impressed with my classmates, yet these are also down to earth kids who are not living out the ivory tower/elitism thing. It makes for a good balance, and those who do well here have a wealth of options (yes, even V5 firms, for the very top students).

We do not have 2009 numbers yet, and they were certainly much reduced, but the class of 2008 placed 43.7% of students into NLJ250 firms (generally NYC biglaw, given Fordham's location and student preferences.)

Not a T14, but still a wonderful school I am very proud to be attending.

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Columbia Law
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby Columbia Law » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:24 pm

TipTravHoot wrote:Image

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chicago520
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby chicago520 » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:04 pm

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Last edited by chicago520 on Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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OperaSoprano
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby OperaSoprano » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:43 pm

chicago520 wrote:
englawyer wrote:i believe at the top of its game, fordham placed around 40% in biglaw which is one of the best placement records outside the T14



Key words are "at the top of its game." I interned last summer with multiple fordham, dozo, nyu and cls. I constantly remember the lawyers chuckling about how the kids from fordham though they were "better" than the dozo kids, and "on par" with the nyu, cls people. The bottom line is, Fordham has actually fallen in the rankings lately, and will be hurt from the bad economy in the next 5 years as they really relied on good private sector jobs to make them the "other t14", whatever that means. nyu, cls are always safe. But to seperate and create a "seperate tier" for fordham is idiocy. It is wayyyy more similar to dozo than to nyu/cls. believe me, i was there.

and no i don't go to any of those schools hah


I don't think that anyone argues that Fordham is on par with NYU and CLS. However, multiple years of statistics do not lie: Fordham biglaw hiring occupies a true middle ground between the T14 and other NYC area schools. Fordham's placement has historically been more than double the placement from Cardozo and Brooklyn. The school is absolutely not in decline. We just had an employer event today, and we were visited by (among others) a V5 firm (one of the true heavy hitters). My classmate wanted to talk to them, so we went over, and they are quite interested in Fordham students with good GPAs (I overheard one of them say top 10-15% for this uber-selective firm).

ahshav
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby ahshav » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:46 am

I don't think that anyone argues that Fordham is on par with NYU and CLS. However, multiple years of statistics do not lie: Fordham biglaw hiring occupies a true middle ground between the T14 and other NYC area schools. Fordham's placement has historically been more than double the placement from Cardozo and Brooklyn. The school is absolutely not in decline. We just had an employer event today, and we were visited by (among others) a V5 firm (one of the true heavy hitters). My classmate wanted to talk to them, so we went over, and they are quite interested in Fordham students with good GPAs (I overheard one of them say top 10-15% for this uber-selective firm).


How did Fordham students fare in OCI this year? How many have offers for the summer?

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bceagles182
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby bceagles182 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:02 am

Not saying that Fordham is on CLS or NYU's level but Fordham consistently has significantly better placement than Cardozo or BLS. And it's not close. How can you say that creating a separate tier for one school is stupid when you're only talking about 5 schools in the NY market?

NYC tiers should be

1. CLS, NYU, and the rest of the T14...
2. Fordham
3. Cardozo, BLS
4. Everything else, with St. John's probably leading the way

I would argue that Fordham may well be closer to CLS and NYU than Cardozo and Brooklyn. These numbers certainly seem to suggest this.

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414employment_trends.pdf

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OperaSoprano
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby OperaSoprano » Thu Jan 28, 2010 3:15 am

ahshav wrote:
I don't think that anyone argues that Fordham is on par with NYU and CLS. However, multiple years of statistics do not lie: Fordham biglaw hiring occupies a true middle ground between the T14 and other NYC area schools. Fordham's placement has historically been more than double the placement from Cardozo and Brooklyn. The school is absolutely not in decline. We just had an employer event today, and we were visited by (among others) a V5 firm (one of the true heavy hitters). My classmate wanted to talk to them, so we went over, and they are quite interested in Fordham students with good GPAs (I overheard one of them say top 10-15% for this uber-selective firm).


How did Fordham students fare in OCI this year? How many have offers for the summer?


Not published yet. One of my friends has an offer, and another has a prestigious government gig. I'm sure hiring was down, but the only way to find out details would be to track down the entire class of 2011. When Fordham releases the numbers, I will analyze them and make them public.

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chicago520
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby chicago520 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:33 am

OperaSoprano wrote:
ahshav wrote:
I don't think that anyone argues that Fordham is on par with NYU and CLS. However, multiple years of statistics do not lie: Fordham biglaw hiring occupies a true middle ground between the T14 and other NYC area schools. Fordham's placement has historically been more than double the placement from Cardozo and Brooklyn. The school is absolutely not in decline. We just had an employer event today, and we were visited by (among others) a V5 firm (one of the true heavy hitters). My classmate wanted to talk to them, so we went over, and they are quite interested in Fordham students with good GPAs (I overheard one of them say top 10-15% for this uber-selective firm).


How did Fordham students fare in OCI this year? How many have offers for the summer?


Not published yet. One of my friends has an offer, and another has a prestigious government gig. I'm sure hiring was down, but the only way to find out details would be to track down the entire class of 2011. When Fordham releases the numbers, I will analyze them and make them public.



Um.......so your saying that the top 10% have a shot at a V5.....that's not mindblowing. The same is true at Hofstra.

If your evidence for Fordham not being in decline is a V5 showing up, that's not too strong. You just lost your asst. dean to Cardozo. Your ranking has slipped recently. I have overheard some funding issues as well. I dont mean to be so :twisted: but I just can't stand when people inflate certain perceptions of a school. My examples are just as anecdotal as yours.

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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby OperaSoprano » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:53 am

chicago520 wrote:Um.......so your saying that the top 10% have a shot at a V5.....that's not mindblowing. The same is true at Hofstra.

If your evidence for Fordham not being in decline is a V5 showing up, that's not too strong. You just lost your asst. dean to Cardozo. Your ranking has slipped recently. I have overheard some funding issues as well. I dont mean to be so :twisted: but I just can't stand when people inflate certain perceptions of a school. My examples are just as anecdotal as yours.


To quickly address your comments: the same is not true at Hofstra. Before the recession, Hofstra placed just over 5% of graduates in market paying jobs, not V5 jobs. I wouldn't say it would be impossible for a Hofstra grad to be hired by a V5 firm, but a quick search of graduates by school in the V5 (most firm websites have these searches) should give you a good feel for the schools where these firms do their recruiting. The top students at Hofstra will probably have some options even ITE, but the schools are not equivalent.

Firms and other employers know that Fordham is under-ranked. It's a testament to the school's administration that they've been able to do so much with modest funding; other NYC area schools are far wealthier, yet Fordham continues to place well above its USNews rank. You've probably heard about the change in the rankings methodology. Unlike several other schools, Fordham did not cut its part time program in order to game the rankings. It did raise the PT entering numbers; it is now significantly harder for those with great work experience but lower LSAT scores to get in.

Here is an artist's rendering of the new building Fordham will be constructing over the next couple of years. IMO, it's going to raise the school's national profile. Locally, Fordham is already known and respected. I am justifiably proud of my school, and have never made claims for it that can't be substantiated.

--ImageRemoved--

ahshav
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Re: How is Fordham Law regarded in NYC? alumni network?

Postby ahshav » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:31 am

So many people keep talking about schools being overrated and underrated - without any explanation to what they really mean.

Again, here - Fordham is allegedly underranked.

First, not true. I'm assuming the ranking to the reference is made are the ones published by USNEWS. Fordham is ranked exactly right - according the USNEWS's criteria. In other words, the ranking are completely meaningless - the only thing they measure is where a school is placed on a list, according to a rather arbitrary set of factors.

Now, to get to the crux of the matter. The issue here is the value of a law school. The problem is that there is no agreement over how to measure that value (not necessarily using objective criteria). There are a number of possibilities, including - job placement in general, helpfulness of career services, level of teaching (which should be divided into at least two - teaching law as a trade, and law as a purely academic field - and all the gray in between), the academic caliber of the student body, the depth & breadth of the alumni network (and how helpful they might be), the caliber of the faculty, the amount of money invested by the school towards the students, and on and on.

Bear in mind, that when it comes to job-related questions, the issues are further fragmented - what kind of job? Biglaw, P.I., academia, boutique firms, in-house?

Don't forget that many of the questions have different answers when one takes geography into consideration.

Ok, now I know most don't really care for a real analysis - but there are really three (I believe, there may be more) main issue that people have in mind when talking about "how good a school is," (1) Job placement (particularly biglaw); (2) academic caliber of the student body (primarily as measured by UG GPA and LSAT); and a distant (3) the overall level of education.

Now - back to the question, re: Fordham:
(1) Fordham has done significantly better in years past than the other non-T14 NYC-area schools. That being said, rumor has it (and it is just a rumor, AFAIK - if proven wrong, I will edit, and remove this line), that Fordham did no better than Cardozo this past OCI.
(2) Similarly, Fordham has, admittedly, a higher caliber student body - as measured by UG GPA and LSAT - than other non-T14 schools. Nevertheless, I tend to believe that this is a result of (1), combined with tradition and history - and not the other way around.
(3) I have no real knowledge of Fordham's faculty - but if they treat their students like their admissions office does, then I wouldn't want to be in such a classroom.

But about the OP's question - how is Fordham regarded? I think that question assumes too much of people - I think people's (students, applicants, and employers, anyway) impression of schools is most strongly tied to the caliber of the admitted student body - in other words, selectivity and popularity.

BTW, and I will not say more than this on the following, but if one finds this interesting - then he/she should look at offer rates for Fordham grads from biglaw firms this past summer (I mean firms that didn't hear 9X% of their class). Something weird is going on, from the figures I've seen (not a scientific study by any means) it seems to me like some firms really didn't like Fordham this past summer.




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