Berkeley Haters

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The Brainalist
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:18 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:A few things:

UCSF and Berkeley have cross-over curriculum and are very closely linked when it comes to the Med School. Berkeley has a clinical program that overlaps with the UCSF med school. I knows people in these programs, so any BS about what I've just said will be firmly rejected.

Rankings are generally stupid. Making a big deal about them is also stupid. But, if you're going to engage in it, be ready for some facts that firmly support UCB over Caltech or Chicago. There are some worldwide rankings that come out with UCB on top:

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.c ... id=4339960

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEEACT_-_P ... 8Top_50.29

There are others that come out with Caltech of Chicago on top.

It's really a dumb argument either way and it seems to be coming from someone who is insecure about his or her not getting into Boalt and perhaps going to Caltech as an UG. You also seem insecure about being a science major.


I agree its a dumb argument either way and that arguments reduced to rankings, especially just one, aren't very good. The argument was being made dumb one way, so I am really just making it the other to balance it out, like the scales of justice. Crackberry is pretty strong in his/her opinions, and I respect that. I do think other opinions can be valid, and a lot of it comes down to what you value and individual preferences. I don't necessarily think that Cal Tech or MIT are better than Stanford or Berkeley, either, but I do think valid arguments can be made as to why they are better, at least for what they attempt to do.

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Kronk
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby Kronk » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:19 pm

If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.

/discussion

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby BioEBear2010 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:20 pm

Kronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.

/discussion

False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineers :D

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Kronk
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby Kronk » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:22 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:
Kronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.

/discussion

False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineers :D


That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby BioEBear2010 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:24 pm

Kronk wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
Kronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.

/discussion

False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineers :D


That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.

I'm referring to undergrad, too. I forget the #s, but a HUGE amount of Caltech students end up chasing PhDs. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley students tend to either work, get Master's degrees, or enter into business (or occasionally law, like myself).

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im_blue
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:24 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Kronk wrote:Best engineering schools from USNWR:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s/rankings

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Berkeley


UCB shouldn't be the number three engineering school.

Yes this is rampant UIUC trolling.


Here you go:

UG EE rankings (the most prestigious engineering)
1. MIT
2. Stanford / UIUC
4. Berkeley

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im_blue
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:25 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:
Kronk wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
Kronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.

/discussion

False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineers :D


That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.

I'm referring to undergrad, too. I forget the #s, but a HUGE amount of Caltech students end up chasing PhDs. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley students tend to either work, get Master's degrees, or enter into business (or occasionally law, like myself).


It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.

09042014
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:25 pm

Kronk wrote:If you want to be an economist, go to Chicago. If you want to be a engineer, go to Caltech. For anything else, go to Berkeley.

/discussion


I wouldn't pay for Caltech engineering.

09042014
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:26 pm

im_blue wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
Kronk wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:False. Caltech makes PhDs, not engineers. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/UIUC (for you, DesertFox) make engineers :D


That's fair. I was trying to compromise and was referring to undergrad, but that's fair.

I'm referring to undergrad, too. I forget the #s, but a HUGE amount of Caltech students end up chasing PhDs. MIT/Stanford/Berkeley students tend to either work, get Master's degrees, or enter into business (or occasionally law, like myself).


It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.


How is that even possible? Do they just hand out A's there or something?

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im_blue
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby im_blue » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:29 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
im_blue wrote:It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.


How is that even possible? Do they just hand out A's there or something?


Median GPA of 3.5 according to an EE grad I know. Almost everyone starts doing research sophomore year, so 2 years of experience by senior year is huge. Also, each major has < 20 students so they can spread out among top PhD programs.

muahawhawhaw
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby muahawhawhaw » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:30 pm

Kronk wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Kronk wrote:Best engineering schools from USNWR:

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... s/rankings

1. MIT
2. Stanford
3. Berkeley


UCB shouldn't be the number three engineering school.

Yes this is rampant UIUC trolling.


Just stop ;). Everyone knows that people who hate Berkeley are either A.) Stanford / UCLA / USC students or B.) in denial.


Well, some Berkeley grads themselves probably hate Berkeley as well due to the "Berkeley goggles" they have to wear for four years. I know I'm one of them, although everything else about Cal was awesome.

ranovr32
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:30 pm

kittenmittons wrote:What's the point of this thread again? Berkeley UG and California kids reassuring themselves that their liberal arts degree from a public school is prestigious?

EXACTLY

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bilbobaggins
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby bilbobaggins » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:42 pm

ranovr32 wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:What's the point of this thread again? Berkeley UG and California kids reassuring themselves that their liberal arts degree from a public school is prestigious?

EXACTLY


Actually, it's the opposite. Those who are insecure about their own schools/degrees/law schools admitted to have crawled out of the woodwork to post hilarious stuff about Berk.

Also - the whole liberal arts degree bashing is pretty cliche at this point. It must hurt every time a philosophy major gets admitted to law school.

ranovr32
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby ranovr32 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:50 pm

bilbobaggins wrote:
ranovr32 wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:What's the point of this thread again? Berkeley UG and California kids reassuring themselves that their liberal arts degree from a public school is prestigious?

EXACTLY


Actually, it's the opposite. Those who are insecure about their own schools/degrees/law schools admitted to have crawled out of the woodwork to post hilarious stuff about Berk.

Also - the whole liberal arts degree bashing is pretty cliche at this point. It must hurt every time a philosophy major gets admitted to law school.

Well considering I had to do algorithms and black scholes option pricing model for a few years did turn me a little sour, in your defense...
But to compare a humanities major to a hard science or math major, even accounting and finance to a lesser degree, does piss everyone off a little. 9/10 people at my UG have about 3.5's with a large proportion over that, I mean how can you not when a large percent of your grade is determined by writing well ON HOW YOU FEEL.

For the record I don't think Berkeley is a shit school, I think it is an awesome school. I just think it is a little more then over rated when it comes to its JD program. The rest of this stuff was killing time in-between studying multi-national finance lol

notme
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby notme » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:05 pm

I don't really believe that the Berkeley haters on tls are UCLA/USC/Stanford. I think they are Chicago and Ivy League, that are having difficulty with the fact that their private schools can't compete with a public school. That and the ever present East Coast/West Coast conflict.

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:07 pm

For the record, I am a Stanford UG and likely SLS student and I have to be one of Berkeley's biggest defenders on TLS.

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los blancos
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby los blancos » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:09 pm

crackberry wrote:For the record, I am a Stanford UG and likely SLS student and I have to be one of Berkeley's biggest defenders on TLS.


I'm a future Berk reject am I'm one of its biggest defenders too. :mrgreen:

09042014
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:18 pm

im_blue wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
im_blue wrote:It's about 60-70% of Caltech UGs getting PhDs.


How is that even possible? Do they just hand out A's there or something?


Median GPA of 3.5 according to an EE grad I know. Almost everyone starts doing research sophomore year, so 2 years of experience by senior year is huge. Also, each major has < 20 students so they can spread out among top PhD programs.


That is cheating.

td6624
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby td6624 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:20 pm

ranovr32 wrote:Well considering I had to do algorithms and black scholes option pricing model for a few years did turn me a little sour, in your defense...
But to compare a humanities major to a hard science or math major, even accounting and finance to a lesser degree, does piss everyone off a little. 9/10 people at my UG have about 3.5's with a large proportion over that, I mean how can you not when a large percent of your grade is determined by writing well ON HOW YOU FEEL.



Oh come on, First of all, my undergrad apparently has the #2 business program in the country, and the accounting/finance majors certainly don't do any more work that I do. And it's pretty disingenuous to reduce every liberal arts major to "writing about how you feel." I've never gotten to do that.

But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.

Edit: Apparently I have been deceived by someone at some point. I can't find any rankings that back up what I said. Haha. But my point about workload remains!

Edit #2: Apparently I can find one.... BusinessWeek's ratings of undergrad programs. They don't match at all what USNEWS says. whatever. I hate school rankings.
Last edited by td6624 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:23 pm

Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby BioEBear2010 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:27 pm

td6624 wrote:But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.

Engineering teaches you a certain way of solving problems. I have heard from lawyers and law professors that this skill set is an invaluable asset in law school.

crackberry wrote:Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.

True, but legal writing is different than anything any of us have experienced.
Last edited by BioEBear2010 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby 09042014 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:27 pm

td6624 wrote:
Oh come on, First of all, my undergrad apparently has the #2 business program in the country, and the accounting/finance majors certainly don't do any more work that I do. And it's pretty disingenuous to reduce every liberal arts major to "writing about how you feel." I've never gotten to do that.

But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.


1)The business major probably did less work.

2)Engineering is the only undergrad degree that actually helps people get post law school jobs. Patent law for the win.

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crackberry
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby crackberry » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:29 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:
crackberry wrote:Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.

True, but legal writing is different than anything any of us have experienced.

Yes, you're right, and you'll be fine; I've seen your writing. Some engineers seriously can't put a sentence together properly, though.

td6624
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby td6624 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:30 pm

BioEBear2010 wrote:
td6624 wrote:But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.

Engineering teaches you a certain way of solving problems. I have heard from lawyers and law professors that this skill set is an invaluable asset in law school.



Yeah, I suppose I was being a bit presumptuous by mentioning engineering. I think my general point can still stand though.

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BioEBear2010
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Re: Berkeley Haters

Postby BioEBear2010 » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:32 pm

td6624 wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
td6624 wrote:But yes, hard science/engineers/math majors probably have more to do, and in many ways it's probably more difficult. But why would any of those people go to law school anyway? I don't think an engineering major would set me up for law school as well as my major has in any way.

Engineering teaches you a certain way of solving problems. I have heard from lawyers and law professors that this skill set is an invaluable asset in law school.



Yeah, I suppose I was being a bit presumptuous by mentioning engineering. I think my general point can still stand though.

Yeah, I was just trying to defend my major :D

crackberry wrote:
BioEBear2010 wrote:
crackberry wrote:Yeah, ranovr, I've got news for you: if you can't write, you'll make a terrible lawyer.

True, but legal writing is different than anything any of us have experienced.

Yes, you're right, and you'll be fine; I've seen your writing. Some engineers seriously can't put a sentence together properly, though.

True, and well played. Unfortunately, I have to work with these people on a daily basis.




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